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Name
Andrew
Edit My Images
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Hi all it is me again, I know you must be getting sick of this and me lol, but today I was taking pictures of water drops on the ivy in my garden when I noticed these lines on the image, anyone know what they are or why they are there???, after the spots and cleaning fiasco, this is making me nervous lol.
This was shot in RAW and exposure brightened, then just resized in jpeg for this forum, I am hoping that it is just something I have done wrong, the image was taken on the with the vintage pentax 50mm and extension tubes, just as I usualy do,
Sorry for being a pain in the butt.

P1050790.jpg
 
What ISO and setting was this shot at?

It would have to be seriously under exposed to cause these noise bars (if that's what they are).

Have you tried taking a shot at the correct exposure (use the histogram and shoot to the right)
 
ISO set to auto taken at f11, iso 160, 1/40th the image was very dark before adjusting, so looks like it is down to me, sometime just to much to look at on the screen, here is the original.
original.jpg
 
I am trying to learn but sometimes feel like I am just making a complete dogs dinner of it, having to ask all the time what is this or that, feel like a complete idiot.
 
Getting the exposure right in camera will help you here.

When you increase the exposure in post processing you are increasing noise as well (as in your processed image).

In this case if you're using micro 4/3 equipment you've no need to stop down to F11.

Up the ISO and use f8 or maybe f7.1.

The closer you get to a subject (in macro) the less light you have to play with.

I normally use flash for macro for this reason.

Take another shot and look on the screen to see the result.

And use the histogram whilst taking the shot (if your camera has one). It'll tell you if you're at the correct exposure.
 
ISO set to auto taken at f11, iso 160, 1/40th the image was very dark before adjusting, so looks like it is down to me, sometime just to much to look at on the screen, here is the original.
View attachment 421385
This is a seriously underexposed shot.

I’m guessing you’re not using any auto or semi auto settings?

In fact, forget the mode, those settings are bonkers. Shutter speed and ISO way too low.

I’m gonna suggest your ‘learning’ is based on ignoring lots of great advice cos you want to ‘learn from your own mistakes’, am I right?
 
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I am trying to learn but sometimes feel like I am just making a complete dogs dinner of it, having to ask all the time what is this or that, feel like a complete idiot.
We’ve all been there Andrew, don’t beat yourself up and keep asking questions and keep learning, you’ll be just fine ;)
 
This is a seriously underexposed shot.

I’m guessing you’re not using any auto or semi auto settings?

In fact, forget the mode, those settings are bonkers. Shutter speed and ISO way too low.

I’m gonna suggest your ‘learning’ is based on ignoring lots of great advice cos you want to ‘learn from your own mistakes’, am I right?
No, I try and take in as much info as I can, if I make a mistake then yes I will try and learn from it, but to suggest that someone is just doing what they want and ignoring other better qualified peoples advice, strikes me as a bit heavy handed, that by no way means that I am against what you said, if those settings are bonkers, then I will learn from that, the last line of your post, was in my opinion unnecessary, everyone starts somewhere no matter the subject. At this moment in time there is just me, the internet, and advice from this forum, I will admit that I am not the best at learning from books etc, I am better when I can see what is needed (copying if you like), this goes back to my military days, they showed you how to strip things down not give you a book and say there you go. So now I shall just retreat back into the corner and think about what to do next, I am obviously not good enough to try and take pictures.
 
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No, I try and take in as much info as I can, if I make a mistake then yes I will try and learn from it, but to suggest that someone is just doing what they want and ignoring other better qualified peoples advice, strikes me as a bit heavy handed, that by no way means that I am against what you said, if those settings are bonkers, then I will learn from that, the last line of your post, was in my opinion unnecessary, everyone starts somewhere no matter the subject. At this moment in time there is just me, the internet, and advice from this forum, I will admit that I am not the best at learning from books etc, I am better when I can see what is needed (copying if you like), this goes back to my military days, they showed you how to strip things down not give you a book and say there you go. So now I shall just retreat back into the corner and think about what to do next, I am obviously not good enough to try and take pictures.
I asked whether you had used any auto settings (which I’m fairly sure you’ll have been advised to).

There really is no need for the passive aggressive bull.

Did you use any auto settings?

Why did you choose the settings you did?

We’re here to help honest.
 
ISO set to auto taken at f11, iso 160, 1/40th the image was very dark before adjusting, so looks like it is down to me, sometime just to much to look at on the screen, here is the original.
View attachment 421385
OK, it is too dark, but did you choose those settings (f11 and 1/40th) on manual, or what mode were you on?
 
No, I try and take in as much info as I can, if I make a mistake then yes I will try and learn from it, but to suggest that someone is just doing what they want and ignoring other better qualified peoples advice, strikes me as a bit heavy handed, that by no way means that I am against what you said, if those settings are bonkers, then I will learn from that, the last line of your post, was in my opinion unnecessary, everyone starts somewhere no matter the subject. At this moment in time there is just me, the internet, and advice from this forum, I will admit that I am not the best at learning from books etc, I am better when I can see what is needed (copying if you like), this goes back to my military days, they showed you how to strip things down not give you a book and say there you go. So now I shall just retreat back into the corner and think about what to do next, I am obviously not good enough to try and take pictures.
Ignore him.
You will find most on here helpful and welcoming.
 
ISO is on auto as is WB, due to it being a fully manual les (old film era I believe) I set the focus to manual in the camera, the picture was taken in shutter priority mode.
Maybe I should avoid fully manual lenses for now, until I learn (understand) how to control the camera better
 
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ISO is on auto as is WB, due to it being a fully manual les (old film era I believe) I set the focus to manual in the camera, the picture was taken in shutter priority mode.
Maybe I should avoid fully manual lenses for now, until I learn (understand) how to control the camera better
OK, let me suggest that you for now whist using the manual lens, switch the camera to manual mode.
The reason for this is that it will give you an indication of exposure.

The procedure would then be, set the ISO to between 1000 and 1600, set the aperture on the lens to f8, then turn the back wheel on the camera, whist watching the exposure indicator at the bottom centre of the screen, immediately to the left of the ISO display.

If the bars are to the left of zero, turn the wheel to the left (ie reduce the shutter speed) until the bars are in the middle, and it will show +-0.
If the bars are to the right of the zero, do the opposite.

Without an automatic lens, that is the only way you will see any display of the exposure ststus.
 
Take a well exposed shot with an auto lens.

Take note of the ISO, aperture and shutter speed.

Put the manual focus lens on the camera and set to manual.

Replicate the exposure using manual mode.

See how you get on.
 
ISO is on auto as is WB, due to it being a fully manual les (old film era I believe) I set the focus to manual in the camera, the picture was taken in shutter priority mode.
Maybe I should avoid fully manual lenses for now, until I learn (understand) how to control the camera better
It’s possible; but you’re making your life needlessly complicated.

Loads of people have great fun playing with incompatible kit, and the joy for them is making it work and getting a result. And that’s a perfectly valid pastime, like learning Latin or how to play a Lute.

Personally, I like to make pictures, and the easier that my gear makes it for me, the happier I am.

If you’re using a wholly manual lens (which one) it’s entirely possible your camera (which one) will not be able to tell you anything helpful. Leaving you to work everything out. It’s unlikely your camera is setting the aperture in SP mode. Then I could be completely wrong, because the only way to know for sure is by having all the specifics of, camera, lens, adaptor.

In 2024, with modern gear, the technical bits of photography are dead straightforward. What you’re attempting is fun (for some) but needlessly complicated for most of us.

My first AF SLR was a Pentax, which I bought because I had old K mount lenses, and I was told they were ‘compatible’. It was a lie, they fit, but they didn’t do anything, including react to the meter. I’d just bought myself a load of frustration, so I returned the camera, sold the lenses and bout a Canon.
 
Thanks eveyone, apart from using 1/40th rather than the 1/125 I tend to use for bugs, I believe everything else is the same as I normaly use, and I thought I was getting some ok results, which I why I asked the original question, obviously I was wrong, so advice taken, and I will keen refering back to the info on this page if I have anymore issues.
 
Loads of people have great fun playing with incompatible kit, and the joy for them is making it work and getting a result. And that’s a perfectly valid pastime, like learning Latin or how to play a Lute.
My frustration with these folk is that they have no idea that the rest of us don’t share their patience and desire for wasting hours getting stuff to work.

So they often pop up and advise newbies to use cheap old lenses cos it’s ‘fun’.
 
It’s possible; but you’re making your life needlessly complicated.

Loads of people have great fun playing with incompatible kit, and the joy for them is making it work and getting a result. And that’s a perfectly valid pastime, like learning Latin or how to play a Lute.

Personally, I like to make pictures, and the easier that my gear makes it for me, the happier I am.

If you’re using a wholly manual lens (which one) it’s entirely possible your camera (which one) will not be able to tell you anything helpful. Leaving you to work everything out. It’s unlikely your camera is setting the aperture in SP mode. Then I could be completely wrong, because the only way to know for sure is by having all the specifics of, camera, lens, adaptor.

In 2024, with modern gear, the technical bits of photography are dead straightforward. What you’re attempting is fun (for some) but needlessly complicated for most of us.

My first AF SLR was a Pentax, which I bought because I had old K mount lenses, and I was told they were ‘compatible’. It was a lie, they fit, but they didn’t do anything, including react to the meter. I’d just bought myself a load of frustration, so I returned the camera, sold the lenses and bout a Canon.
Phil, I am using a Panasonic G5 MFT body with a vintage Pentax K mount 50mm f1.7 lens, with adaptor and extension tubes. This one
smc_Pentax-M_50mm_F1_7.jpg
I would have taken a photo but my battery just died lol. so d/l this image
 
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Phil, I am using a Panasonic G5 MFT body with a vintage Pentax K mount 50mm f1.7 lens, with adaptor and extension tubes. This one
View attachment 421396
I would have taken a photo but my battery just died lol. so d/l this image
Whole load of questions:
Does the adaptor allow the camera to stop down the lens?
If not you have to stop it down manually, is that what you’re doing?

If you’re using f11 at 50mm, why not just use the Panasonic zoom lens you have for the camera? It does 50mm and it does f11.

As I see it, all you’re doing is making hard work of the easy bits.

This is just my opinion.
With modern kit, exposure and focus are a piece of cake (unlike in the old days when we had to control everything manually).

The hard part of photography is creating really interesting or engaging images with timing, light, field of view, composition, perspective etc.

So I get confused when people want to make the easy bits hard, cos the hard parts are difficult enough as it is.

And for a lot of newbies, they go out of their way to make the easy parts hard, which means they’ll never get to work on the hard parts.
 
If you want to do macro get the excellent Olympus 60mm f2.8 macro 2nd hand or from HDEW.

Then get a decent flash like the Godox V350 and you're away.
 
I have just set up a G5 with a Pentacon 50mm 1.8 lens with extension tubes.

I used an inexpensive (less than £20 when I got it) LED ring light,

I exposed as suggested above, extremely quick and simple, and this is the result. (I doubt I held the camera still)

The bit in the yellow circle is less than 3mm long.

Lens was set to f11



0.jpg2.jpg1.jpg
 
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Having said all this it is totally possible to use old manual focus lenses with manual extension tubes.

BUT, you need to know how a camera (and it's settings) works first.

It's like putting you in a car at 17 without lessons and saying "have a go and see how you get on".



The below shot was taken with the same lens as you've posted above with extension tubes but on a Nikon D700.

All manual

[url=https://flic.kr/p/Gv7dQD]Young Bluebell (1 of 1) by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]




This one was again taken with manual tubes and the Pentax 50mm f1.7 lens but on a Sony A72 body, with hand held off camera flash.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2hPMNPq]Forest Fungi by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]



So it's entirely possible, you just need to understand how to "drive the camera".


Best of luck and keep asking questions, it's how most of us learn.
 
Having said all this it is totally possible to use old manual focus lenses with manual extension tubes.

BUT, you need to know how a camera (and it's settings) works first.

It's like putting you in a car at 17 without lessons and saying "have a go and see how you get on".



The below shot was taken with the same lens as you've posted above with extension tubes but on a Nikon D700.

All manual

[url=https://flic.kr/p/Gv7dQD]Young Bluebell (1 of 1) by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]




This one was again taken with manual tubes and the Pentax 50mm f1.7 lens but on a Sony A72 body, with hand held off camera flash.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2hPMNPq]Forest Fungi by Terence Rees, on Flickr[/URL]



So it's entirely possible, you just need to understand how to "drive the camera".


Best of luck and keep asking questions, it's how most of us learn.
I hope so, it was you who gave me the lens and tubes lol, I have been having fun with them until now.
 
I have just set up a G5 with a Pentacon 50mm 1.8 lens with extension tubes.

I used an inexpensive (less than £20 when I got it) LED ring light,

I exposed as suggested above, extremely quick and simple, and this is the result. (I doubt I held the camera still)

The bit in the yellow circle is less than 3mm long.

Lens was set to f11



View attachment 421401View attachment 421403View attachment 421402
Sangoma, you have seen some of the results I have been getting with this combination, all seemed ok until this.
 
Whole load of questions:
Does the adaptor allow the camera to stop down the lens?
If not you have to stop it down manually, is that what you’re doing?

If you’re using f11 at 50mm, why not just use the Panasonic zoom lens you have for the camera? It does 50mm and it does f11.

As I see it, all you’re doing is making hard work of the easy bits.

This is just my opinion.
With modern kit, exposure and focus are a piece of cake (unlike in the old days when we had to control everything manually).

The hard part of photography is creating really interesting or engaging images with timing, light, field of view, composition, perspective etc.

So I get confused when people want to make the easy bits hard, cos the hard parts are difficult enough as it is.

And for a lot of newbies, they go out of their way to make the easy parts hard, which means they’ll never get to work on the hard parts.
I was gifted the lens and tubes to see if I like doing macro, rather than spend a lot of cash on a dedicated macro lens to start with. I have also tried the 45-150 zoom with screw on macro filters, but being cheap filters I prefer the images from the Pentax lens. I have been getting some half decent images until now.

This is the pentax lens
Fly on Ivy.jpg
and this was the zoom with filter
Fly 26.4.24.JPG
to my eyes the Penatx lens seems sharper than the filter?.
 
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Sangoma, you have seen some of the results I have been getting with this combination, all seemed ok until this.
I agree, that is why I am trying to answer your question, You know it is not the way would do it, as I have mentioned using the 45-150 before, however I can see the problem and how you can solve it doing it your way.

To be honest, I think you did a fair job salvaging the shoe, and it would be easy to get rid of the banding, then it wouldn't have looked all bad :)
 
ISO is on auto as is WB, due to it being a fully manual les (old film era I believe) I set the focus to manual in the camera, the picture was taken in shutter priority mode.
Maybe I should avoid fully manual lenses for now, until I learn (understand) how to control the camera better

If you are using an old manual lens, you ideally need to be in Av mode or Manual. You then change the actual aperture on the lens & the camera will adjust the shutter speed to suit.

If you took the original image in Auto ISO, then I can only guess you had some minus exposure compensation set or something.

Does the LCD not show the live exposure being it's mirrorless?
 
I agree, that is why I am trying to answer your question, You know it is not the way would do it, as I have mentioned using the 45-150 before, however I can see the problem and how you can solve it doing it your way.

To be honest, I think you did a fair job salvaging the shoe, and it would be easy to get rid of the banding, then it wouldn't have looked all bad :)
Thanks, it is just that after those spots you noticed, and me trying to clean the sensor for the first time, I needed to be sure it was something I had done wrong rather than the camera playing up if you get my meaning. I will take all the advice I can get. I am just such a panic merchant when things go wrong lol, can't afford a replacement yet.
 
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I was gifted the lens and tubes to see if I like doing macro, rather than spend a lot of cash on a dedicated macro lens to start with. I have also tried the 45-150 zoom with screw on macro filters, but being cheap filters I prefer the images from the Pentax lens. I have been getting some half decent images until now.

This is the pentax lens
View attachment 421404
and this was the zoom with filter
View attachment 421405
to my eyes the Penatx lens seems sharper than the filter?.
I'm not so certain.
The angles are different, DoF looks different, without looking at all the details, I would say that with the same subject, same time and same settings, it would be an impossible choice.

Each lens you will have to learn what works well.

Don't give up on either, keep going as you are, and you will be armed with more experience and knowledge further down the line to make choices when you need to.

Keep going and have fun!
 
Sangoma, you have seen some of the results I have been getting with this combination, all seemed ok until this.
I think you have to try not to look at this single shot as a disaster.

You've learned that the image being severely under exposed has introduced noise in the shadows so now you need to go away and equate that knowledge to how you set the shot up.

You needed more light. In the absence being able to of add light artificially you'll have to balance it out with your exposure settings.

There are no one size fits all settings, just a balancing act which is made easier by knowing your equipment and how it works.

With a static subject, you can use as slow a shutter speed as you can hand hold (or slower still on a tripod), open your aperture up a bit or a combination of both.

By giving the sensor a bit more light to work with, you may then be able to bump ISO slightly with acceptable noise results.

I've never shot with your kit so I'm absolutely speculating, but what I'm trying to demonstrate is you need to go through a train of thought based on the information you've learned here.

You needed more light and your camera has ways to make that happen. Your understanding of those ways will lead you to the image you want to get.

Keep going! It'll come.
 
Don't beat yourself up when something goes wrong, we all learn from our mistakes, not from our successes.

But, accept that your choice of both lens and subject is making things much more difficult for you and using extension tubes, which dramatically reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor (following the Inverse Square Law) is adding to the exposure calculation problem, unless your extension tubes are the expensive auto ones, and the lens also works in auto exposure mode.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having the 'fun factor' with having to calculate the exposure manually because the lens can't do the basic calculation for you, but you just have to accept that you're making life much more difficult than it needs to be - it's fine for boring old people like myself, with a lifetime of experience, who had to have a decent understanding of physics when we started out long before there was any automation at all, because the challenges that are baffling you would be resolved by older experienced people without even thinking about them.
Personally, I like a challenge, and I like driving all sorts of challenging vehicles. Last week I tried to go shopping in a HGV, which is far more fun to drive than my little shopping trolley of a car, and everything went fine until I found that Sainsburys' car park has a height barrier:) It was just the wrong tool for the job!

Your subject choice isn't the easiest either, at this sort of magnification you're really pushing your luck shooting at 1/40th of a second, the slightest breeze or movement is bound to ruin the shot - why not shoot at 1/500th, to remove that potential problem?

Depth of field at very close distances is another problem, there are software solutions but the immutable laws of physics will always limit the amount of DOF that can be captured in-camera.
Getting the exposure right in camera will help you here.

When you increase the exposure in post processing you are increasing noise as well (as in your processed image).

In this case if you're using micro 4/3 equipment you've no need to stop down to F11.

Up the ISO and use f8 or maybe f7.1.

The closer you get to a subject (in macro) the less light you have to play with.

I normally use flash for macro for this reason.

Take another shot and look on the screen to see the result.

And use the histogram whilst taking the shot (if your camera has one). It'll tell you if you're at the correct exposure.
I disagree with the (my bold) statement, with the severe DOF limitations, f/11 is a better choice than a larger aperture. Diffraction limitation is a very real problem, but f/ll should be fine with a micro 4/3 camera (see http://www.waloszek.de/gen_optimum_f_e.php) and, sometimes, it's better to have a bit of diffraction limitation than too little DOF, so as an experiment you could try f/16, there may be the beginnings of diffraction limitation, but it shouldn't be bad.

Yes, your "macro filter" (actually a supplementary lens) is bound to reduce image quality.

Overall, you need to set your ISO to a high figure, you could try somewhere around 5000, set the lens aperture to probably f/16 and take test shots at different shutter speeds. If your image is under or overexposed, delete it and try again, because exposure faults need to be within fairly narrow error limits, and nothing can be done about hopeless errors,

Or add a flash,

Or use modern equipment, or both, but even with modern equipment, the extension tubes will make a fairly high ISO essential without flash.

Hope this helps.
 
Remember to check if you are using Auto ISO that you aren't hitting a limiter. You may be maxing out at too low of an ISO setting.
 
ISO is on auto as is WB, due to it being a fully manual les (old film era I believe) I set the focus to manual in the camera, the picture was taken in shutter priority mode.
Maybe I should avoid fully manual lenses for now, until I learn (understand) how to control the camera better

I haven't read every word in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said...

I don't think old manual lenses play nice in shutter priority mode, I think you need to be in either aperture priority or manual mode.

I use manual lenses a lot on mirrorless cameras, I use aperture priority with auto ISO until the shutter speed falls too low and I then switch to manual mode and dial in a more acceptable shutter speed again with auto ISO. I also try to avoid boosting the exposure a lot in processing.

Stay with this Andrew and don't lose heart. With digital taking a picture is pretty much free so you can experiment with the modes and settings and instantly see the results with little impact on your bank balance :D

My advice is to stick with aperture priority or manual mode and auto ISO and keep an eye on the exposure scale unless making a deliberate decision to do otherwise. Also, if you think a shot is a bit tricky for whatever reason take a couple of shots and see what works best.

Good luck with moving forward.
 
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I haven't read every word in this thread so forgive me if this has already been said...

I don't think old manual lenses play nice in shutter priority mode, I think you need to be in either aperture priority or manual mode.

I use manual lenses a lot on mirrorless cameras, I use aperture priority with auto ISO until the shutter speed falls too low and I then switch to manual mode and dial in a more acceptable shutter speed again with auto ISO. I also try to avoid boosting the exposure a lot in processing.

Stay with this Andrew and don't lose heart. With digital taking a picture is pretty much free so you can experiment with the modes and settings and instantly see the results with little impact on your bank balance :D

My advise is to stick with aperture priority or manual mode and auto ISO and keep an eye on the exposure scale unless making a deliberate decision to do otherwise. Also, if you think a shot is a bit tricky for whatever reason take a couple of shots and see what works best.

Good luck with moving forward.

I'm sure auto ISO isn't available in manual mode on the G5, but that is a good way when the camera offers it
 
I'm sure auto ISO isn't available in manual mode on the G5, but that is a good way when the camera offers it.

Oh, that is a shame and will cause extra control use but for still shooting may not prolong set up time too much.
 
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