My journey into LF Progresses!

Asha

Asha

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Asha
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Although I already shoot a very small amount of LF, I have made a decision to make this format much more prominent in my photography.

My objective over the coming year is to dramatically reduce my present collection of cameras and accessories with a view to help raise funds towards purchasing a "quality" piece of LF equipment ( probably 4 x 5 format).

In the meantime I will continue shooting with the old LF cameras in quarter, half and whole plate sizes along with 9 x 12cm format.

Wether I hold onto the old LF kit long term will depend on funds.

Much as i wish not to part with the old gear, the fact of its age, condition and limitatons is what is holding me back from progressing in the LF field, so if it has to go to help pay for something better then so be it.

At this time I am very much a "fish out of water" with what would be considered modern LF kit hence why I am starting this thread.....Hopefully during the coming months, with the help from you guys, i will learn much more about what LF set ups are out there, their pros and cons, along with a whole host of other aspects regarding LF photography...... No doubt as time goes on I will have plenty of questions which I will post up in here.

Many thanks in advance for your help(y)
 
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Wow Asha.....congrats, but for me MF is good enough, but it's all about what you would like to do and achieve that counts.
 
going to make a rollfilm back that takes 3 to 5 35mm film canisiters? ;-)
 
I have 2 LF cameras a Sinar 4x5 monorail, which has loads of movements with interchangeable bellows and extension rails etc. It is a bit of a beast to carry about, but is very versatile. I also have a MPP which is a little like the one linked above. The MPP is a (metal) folder and much easier to carry, but has less movements and the widest lens it takes is 90mm. I personally find that 90mm is wide enough for me and the movements it does have suit me fine. There are more modern folders such as the Chamonix cameras which may also be good, but it depends on what you predominantly will be photographing and what you feel the limitations of your current kit are. I am by no means an expert but am happy to help out where I can.
 
Nguss said:
I have 2 LF cameras a Sinar 4x5 monorail, which has loads of movements with interchangeable bellows and extension rails etc. It is a bit of a beast to carry about, but is very versatile. I also have a MPP which is a little like the one linked above. The MPP is a (metal) folder and much easier to carry, but has less movements and the widest lens it takes is 90mm. I personally find that 90mm is wide enough for me and the movements it does have suit me fine. There are more modern folders such as the Chamonix cameras which may also be good, but it depends on what you predominantly will be photographing and what you feel the limitations of your current kit are. I am by no means an expert but am happy to help out where I can.
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I've looked quite a bit at the Sinar Norma ....... very interested in learning a lot more about it along with similar monorails.

I understand that a 150mm on 4x5 is approx equivalent to 50mm lens on an slr (35mm)

To begin with that fov will probably be ok but I like wide and given that i'll most likey shot landscapes and architecture, I reckon 90mm may not be wide enough, probably something seriously wide like 65mm ( equiv to 20mm ish is it??) will end up on my want list ....Am I right in believing that with wide angle there is a need for bag bellows as against the standard concertina type?


I'll likely be "bugging" you and everone else for mor info as time goes on :)
 
My first 5x4 was a monorail type. It weighed 4.2kg and didn't pack down (other than closing up the front and rear standards) so the only way to carry it was either an oversize rucksack or use the carrying strap on it. Awkward to transport, but it worked. The great feature for me was that it had rack and pinion on the rising front.

It was replaced with a Wista DX which is a folding field camera. Longer bellows (the original had short bellows that were limiting on close focus even with a 150mm (standard) lens.

In addition, I have a Canham DLC45 which has more movements and triple extension bellows. It also has very compressible bellows allowing short lenses without needing to change. The Wista has fixed bellows - no change possible. The downside of this camera is that (unlike the Wista) it's difficult to set up unless tripod mounted, and it has no carrying handle, so it needs to be packed down and placed in its case to carry (unless you leave it on the tripod and carry both rifle fashion against your shoulder).

I've just ordered one of the last 10 Walker Titans (only back in production this month). I can comment on how easy or otherwise it performs for me when it's made and I've got it!

The reason for bag bellows is that concertina types can only compress so far; and if they have a reasonable extension, there's a lot of material to compress. Bag bellows are shorter; but whether you need them will depend on the camera and lens.

For what it's worth, in my 35mm days I preferred a 21mm lens, but with 5x4 150mm seems wide enough for how I photograph landscapes.
 
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As mentioned above, in my experience the potential downside to folder types is the inability to change bellows (I am not sure whether there are any with the ability to change bellows, someone more knowledgeable on these types will no doubt confirm) but they will most likely still have all the movements you will generally need and are 'faster' to set up and take down than monorails which can be a bit of a faff on.

The main disadvantage I have found regarding monorails (I am currently using a Sinar F and previously had a Cambo) are the weight and fact they are a bit cumbersome to set up and pack up quickly but on the flipside they are more versatile in terms of movements and possibly lens selections due to the ability to change bellows if needed when I am comparing the Sinar to the MPP (which is probably not a fair comparison anyway as the MPP is a much older camera).

I generally tend to take the monorail when I know I will be out and about photographing, although some of my favourite photos were taken on the MPP with the 90mm lens and a top hat lensboard.

For my usage, 90mm is plenty wide for me on 4x5 and 210mm is a very nice focal length, so I tend to use these the most although 135mm or 150mm is also a very respectable landscape focal length. I have a 65mm which I never use and the groundglass seems to get seriously dark in the corners at 65mm so I have not used that at all, so this is also something to bear in mind I suppose although you may already know this.
 
My original monorail and the Wista folding field camera have fixed bellows; the Canham and Walker are both folders and have interchangeable bellows. From memory, the lightest 5x4 is actually a monorail. The most compact to carry monorail design is the Technikardan.
 
I'm very happy with and recommend Ebony SV45U2.
Rock solid, field folding camera. My widest is 72mm but it will do 65mm without recessed board and no need for bag bellows with this beauty. I also invested in brightest screen available to make focussing a lot easier - a Maxwell screen.
 
Ebony here as well. My old Shen hao was a folder (still for sale... ;) ) and had interchangeable bellows. For me, rail cameras are even more of a faf and the weight is a massive no no. Used folders now for a few years for all my landscape trips and it's never been a problem. My advice would be to not worry about bellows this and 'paper limitations' that, get a camera you're happy using and worry about taking photographs instead :)
 
Well this week has seen a tiny step ( funding wise) towards my goal in so far as I've sold a couple of bits and raised best part of £150 :banana:......If I raise that on a weekly basis then I might get something that I fancy for Spring instead of next winter :D

Thanks for all your replies and advice guys....I'm looking at lots of different options / set ups including those that have been mentioned above but do find myself being drawn to the monorail systems even with potential weight and setting up time ( tbh I enjoy messing with toys so don't think the setting up will be a hinderence, quite the contrary probably)

When considering this project, I did wonder that i may have to upgrade on a tripod too as my present Manfrotto 190XB has a max pay load of 5kg as does the head ( 391RC2) which I'm not very keen on tbh although it suffices for my present needs.

The legs may well be strong enough though if for example a monorail set up with tripod head tops out at 4.5kg, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the legs accepting a max of 5kg...a bit close to their limit no??

Which tripods / heads do you LF users find most secure and easiest to use??
 
I think that the 190xprob is what I use with the Sinar F1 with no real problem at all. I don't use a proper tripod head and just use the mounting collar thing that came with the camera. I haven't really found not having a proper tripod head a real problem to be honest. I also love the thought of an Ebony, but sadly they are too expensive for me but are absolutely beautiful cameras. Mmmmm. Ebony.
 
I use a Manfrotto C441 (or simlilar designation) which is a carbon fibre tripod with a 410 geared head. I used to use the 029 head, but found the geared head far easier to control accurately. I also sometimes use a Benbo tripod (from the days when there was only onew Benbo tripod). Both work well for me, although the Benbo design makes it more suitable for use standing in water or sand (the legs telescope down into the bottom section, rather than the reverse where the dirty bottom section telescopes into the upper section(s).

With monorails, apart from the weight you might want to consider how you'll physically transport them. My first 5x4 was a monorail and the only thing it would fit inside was a backpack really designed for carrying a tent plus the kitchen sink into the wilderness :). You could look at the Technikardan which is rather clever at folding away.
 
Although I'm yet to sell other kit to fund this project, I am naturally keeping my eyes open for potential decent purchases/deals

Horseman is one make I'm considering amongst others though Sinar is very appealing ( I get the impression ( probably wrong lol) that accessories are more readily available for Sinar kits.

Anyhow, I think i would prefer to purchase a "complete set up " as against seperates initially with a view of adding / swapping accessories as i go on.


Here are some details of a local advert for a Horseman LE which could be tempting.

Do you guys think it's worth persuing with some detailed questions re condition etc ??


Monorail 4x5 HORSEMAN LE
Lens Rodenstock 210mm. 5.6 Sinar lens board
Lens Rodenstock 150mm. 5.6 Sinar lens board
1 x Polaroid 545 Pro back

6 x Fidelity Elite 4x5 back
1 carrying case Horseman (Original) Not pictured.

All in very good condition.

1400 euros



View attachment 4169

View attachment 4170

View attachment 4171
 
steveo_mcg said:
Needs more brass work. ;-)
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You mean something like this which I already possess ??:

Beautiful as they are , the monorail is the way in which I wish to venture forward not that I intend ridding myself of these works of art from a bygone era in the process.

View attachment 4190
 
Asha said:
You mean something like this which I already possess ??:

Beautiful as they are , the monorail is the way in which I wish to venture forward not that I intend ridding myself of these works of art from a bygone era in the process.

View attachment 4190
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Maybe add some brass to the modern one? The monorail is a very interesting looking piece of kit, to your average punter it probably says camera less than even your antique behemoths. I, tragically, can offer no decent advice beyond... Cooool. :)
 
Hi Asha,

Re the condition,the photograph's of the kit look good and being black blemishes would show up as you can see on the lens board and edges of the monorail and frames.

If I were you my main question would be, "does this kit take photographs as it should and is it technically sound, please advise any problems what so ever"

I have searched in America as there seems to be a quantity of HORSEMAN LE there. The dollar price for your kit without the Case is around $1400 that is individual items added together so will be high, so to me a best offer price in euro,s would be starting at 1000 euro,s and then plus what you think the carry case is worth,I have no Idea.

Great looking kit that is,you will certainly be noticed around the harbour. (y):snaphappy:


Richard.
 
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medwaygreen said:
Hi Asha,

Re the condition,the photograph's of the kit look good and being black blemishes would show up as you can see on the lens board and edges of the monorail and frames.

If I were you my main question would be, "does this kit take photographs as it should and is it technically sound, please advise any problems what so ever"

I have searched in America as there seems to be a quantity of HORSEMAN LE there. The dollar price for your kit without the Case is around $1400 that is individual items added together so will be high, so to me a best offer price in euro,s would be starting at 1000 euro,s and then plus what you think the carry case is worth,I have no Idea.

Great looking kit that is,you will certainly be noticed around the harbour. (y):snaphappy:


Richard.
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I took your advice Richard, and contacted the seller.

His initial reply was very "thin" with info and came across as if something was amiss with the kit.:cautious:

Two further emails, both with very delayed replies, amounted to a feeling on my part that i was trying to draw blood from a stone and that the seller was being very reserved.:cautious::cautious:

Thus, I've decided to give it a miss .;)

A little dissapointing as those enquiries have been, i have located a very similar kit elsewhere which i am presently persuing (y)
 
I would say you original thoughts about a monorail and a Sinar are your best bet compared to a wooden field camera if you want to shoot architecture the amount of "faffing" about you will have to do to mount some of the better wide angles is enough to make you weep. An F or P can mount and focus at infinity a 47mm XL on a standard lens board not all the other monorail designs will do that even.

Sinars are now relatively speaking cheap as chips and most useful of all the vast range of accessories are easily available.

The Norma's are still good cameras and while some prefer them I think the yaw free movements and easy set up of the F or P make them the better camera.

If you haven't already I would download a copy of the Sinar Code

later version here

Sinar instructions here

Service manuals scroll down to View Camera Service Manuals

If you have a look through the literature you will get a good idea of whats available and what might be useful to you. A couple of years ago I picked up a F1 with metering back wide bellows two as well as three standard bellows an extra standard and two rail extensions in a case with some other bits for 360 so if you buy carefully the camera is certainly within your range.

I have err a fairly large part of the contents of the Sinar code .. least ways Norma P and F in 5x4 5x7 and 10x8 so any questions just ask I also have a fair bit of Sinar literature.
 
Just to update on this thread.

I am now the proud owner of a 4x5 Horseman LE monorail system.:)

At the moment it has a Sinaron 210mm lens which for the type of photography I wish to do ( landscapes and architecture), will likely prove to be too long :( ....could always try find a model to shoot portraits in the meantime whilst i practice getting used to the system! ;)

Other than building it up and having a "dry" play, i haven't had a moment to be able to play with it ( due to personal circumstances):( , not that i have film for it yet ...could slip some of my 9x12 in for the moment i guess(y)

Nonetheless I'm very pleased with it :banana: and will get pics up in due course .( could be several weeks as I'm in the process of moving home!!):arghh::banghead: which is driving me insane! :wacky::D

One question i do wish to ask those in the know .... If at some point i change to a wide lens ( say 90mm) will the standard bellows still suffice or am i looking at having to pick up some bag bellows?
 
I would imagine that you would need bag bellows if you intended to utilise the extreme movements that your camera is capable of when using a 90mm lens. If you were content to limit the movements then your standard bellows should be fine. You could pick up a 90mm lens and get a bag bellows at a later date if you felt restricted by the movements available with the standard bellows.
 
wickerman said:
I would imagine that you would need bag bellows if you intended to utilise the extreme movements that your camera is capable of when using a 90mm lens. If you were content to limit the movements then your standard bellows should be fine. You could pick up a 90mm lens and get a bag bellows at a later date if you felt restricted by the movements available with the standard bellows.
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Pretty much what I thought ....I will want to make use of the extreme movements .....I want to enjoy the fun of having that ability with the camera so if needing bag bellows is necessary then no problem, I'll sort it in due course.

In the meantime I have plenty to learn with the present set up...................something to look forward to.
 
@Asha It looks the dogs b******s to me....(drool)
 
Looks good Asha very high quality looking bit of kit.

My own progress has stalled while I wait on shutters being repaired and returned. Seriously itching to get out
 
Asha said:
On your shopping list Trevor??........:D
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To be honest I'm constantly looking at LF kit. It fascinates me.
I'm just not convinced I'd ever use it to advantage...maybe one day..
 
steveo_mcg said:
Looks good Asha very high quality looking bit of kit.

My own progress has stalled while I wait on shutters being repaired and returned. Seriously itching to get out
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Cheers Steveo, It's very nice to use albiet i've only shot two "real" frames and feels very sturdy and high quality.

Once I get myself properly sorted, I reckon I'll get a lot of enjoyment from it.
 
trevorbray said:
To be honest I'm constantly looking at LF kit. It fascinates me.
I'm just not convinced I'd ever use it to advantage...maybe one day..
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I don't know that i'll get the best out of this but I'll be giving it a darned good try.

All takes time and of course I've got so much other kit to shoot with too ......hence why I'm on a mission trying to shift much of it!
 
Looks a great bit of kit Asha, should be able to get the best out of those Sospel views.
 
Well I am not going to say anything,only because I have already seen the kit.:)

It looks even better when you can touch it.
 
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