Sanyo Eneloop XX test

Pookeyhead

Pookeyhead

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David
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I've just bought a couple of packs of Eneloop XX cells, so I thought I'd test them and stick the results on here if anyone is interested.

M0397oY.jpg


Literally just got them so the first thing I thought I'd test is the capacity out of the box. As they're meant to be pre-charged, and able to retain 85% over 1 year, I thought this claim needs testing.

Using a Powerex MH-C9000 to test.

Date of manufacture: Jan 2013

mM8Iuyy.jpg


Assuming a worst case scenario (Jan 1st) that's a little over 7 months.

One of my MH-C9000s was set to discharge 4 of them at 600mA.

Results:

gE0f3NI.jpg

3fZNMMl.jpg

AKIdyiK.jpg

hduB5Sh.jpg



So:
1 - 51.4%
2 - 52.6%
3 - 51.1%
4 - 52.3%

Not as great as advertised, but these are new cells, and I've also read that they aren't charged to 100% from the factory. They're all currently on a break in cycle, so I'll give you the full rated capacity when that's complete. It takes around 36 hours.

I'll keep updating the thread with new data re: charge retention when I get it.
 
Interesting. I was thinking about buying these batteries. Looking forward for your update. Thanks for posting
 
Thanks.
 
Me too, I just purchased a Nikon 910 flash and very interested in your results as I am using AA alkaline at present .
 
Still on a break in cycle.

NEGWQWL.jpg


Probably tomorrow before they're finished and a figure to give you.
 
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Nothing scientific from me but when I moved from some high capacity brand batteries to uniross hybrios ( same tech as eneloops more or less) I noticed a huge difference , my 580ex ii seemed to go on forever, now I'm using a Nikon sb700 with the same batteries which are a few years old now and they're still going strong
 
Hi what battery charger is that? I got a pair of the white versions of those eneloops batteries but don't wanna charge them on my cheap rapid 1 hour charger as people say you should not use rapid chargers
 
not using a decent charger kinda makes buying decent cells a bit pointless :bonk:
no matter what cells you use, you would want to use them to their full potential. that oldschool NiCad charger you have been using for years has been damaging your NiMh cells by overcharging them every time!
Nicad & Nimh have very different cutoff needs when fully charged & a Nicad charger will overcharge which isn't ideal.
plus also you need a charger that treats & charges the cells on individual circuits as they will often charge at slightly different rates or have a different amount of charge left in when you put them in there.
a cheapo charger would treat all the cells as one battery pack & due to the differences just mentioned will see the charger stopping with some over & some under charged.
this leads to sub par performance of whatever you're using them in plus the cells themselves will degrade quicker & not reach their expected lifetime cycles :bonk:

those chargers pictured above look pretty good to me, tempted to order a pair myself (y)
 
Tirpitz said:
not using a decent charger kinda makes buying decent cells a bit pointless :bonk:
no matter what cells you use, you would want to use them to their full potential. that oldschool NiCad charger you have been using for years has been damaging your NiMh cells by overcharging them every time!
Nicad & Nimh have very different cutoff needs when fully charged & a Nicad charger will overcharge which isn't ideal.
plus also you need a charger that treats & charges the cells on individual circuits as they will often charge at slightly different rates or have a different amount of charge left in when you put them in there.
a cheapo charger would treat all the cells as one battery pack & due to the differences just mentioned will see the charger stopping with some over & some under charged.
this leads to sub par performance of whatever you're using them in plus the cells themselves will degrade quicker & not reach their expected lifetime cycles :bonk:

those chargers pictured above look pretty good to me, tempted to order a pair myself (y)
Click to expand...

Who are you replying too LOL.

the Powerex MH-C9000 doesnt ruin your batteries if that is the charger you are talking about
 
Did you not understand the content of my post?
you felt compelled enough to quote it yet appear to have missed the points made completely :shrug:
its pretty clear from the spec of the Powerex that it has individual cell charging & therefore would be a suitable charger for modern Nimh cells :thinking:

to quick to try & make a smart comment maybe? :shrug:
 
I recently bought these batteries for my 600ex-rt and I can't really comment on them test wise as I've only used them twice after taking maybe 20 shots. I'm just using the charger I bought off the battery city site that also comes with eneloops (the older non xx type).

I was looking at getting a decent charger, but I figured the Sanyo charger would be good enough as they make them. If I'm wrong please let me know as I don't want to be spending a small fortune on XXs every few months :D

Actually, I engaged brain and re-read your post. On checking the charger I have (just a cheap £20 I think it was) it's a Ni-MH one, so whilst not perfect it'll do as the only others I've seen are commanding a hefty £100+ price tag.
 
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i don't think it would ruin them quickly, but they definitely wouldn't last as long as cells charged & maintained on an individual basis.

over the years of racing electric RC cars we've had to learn the hard way about cell maintenance & charging. we even had cells exploding on the correct chargers due to the makers trying to wring the very maximum out of them while keeping them inside the maximum dimensions (more volatile insides plus thinner casings etc)
Now we have Lithium Polymer batteries & its much easier (much less labour intensive than managing & optimising Nimh cells). (y)
although saying that you don't want to be in the same rom as a Lipo on the wrong charger lol :LOL:
 
Tirpitz said:
Did you not understand the content of my post?
you felt compelled enough to quote it yet appear to have missed the points made completely :shrug:
its pretty clear from the spec of the Powerex that it has individual cell charging & therefore would be a suitable charger for modern Nimh cells :thinking:

to quick to try & make a smart comment maybe? :shrug:
Click to expand...

no i am not. why be rude for? i only asked who you was replying to :bonk:

dont be bitter. it is a nice sunny summer day. relax
 
:)

i guess i'm too used to seeing argumentative/sarcastic replies on most threads nowadays :shrug::bonk:

i was just keen to point out the merits of a decent charger, especially in a thread that is examining battery performance (y)
 
digital said:
That's quite an expensive charger. I'm curious to know what it offers over the (cheap!) one I use.
Click to expand...

It offers full control over charge current, so you can get the best from the cells.

It offers a IEC standard of conditioning (0.1C [one tenth rated capacity] 16 hour charge, one hour rest, 0.2C discharge, one hour rest, then another 16 hour 0.1C charge.. fully controlled) and gives a report of measured capacity at the end. This ensures new cells are "broken in" correctly and offer the maxim,um capacity.

It also has a refresh and analyse mode, for keeping cells in good condition once broken in, again with a capacity report at the end.

Fully programmable charge current for a normal charge.

A fully programmable discharge mode to measure capacity, and obviously discharge the cells.

It has a programmable cycle/discharge mode that can be set to charge and discharge at a set current a set amount of times.. again, to keep cells fresh.

Cheap chargers only have a fixed current charge, and this may be either too low to activate a safe cut off, or so high that you are heating and stressing your cells too much. Basically... cheap chargers will not get the best from your cells, and in a worse case scenario, can lessen their life span and capacity.

There's zero point in getting the best cells and then sticking them in a £10 "fast" charger.

My old cells, charged with a cheap Maplin charger (£15) when analysed on the MH0C9000 only gave 1700mAH, yet they were rated at 2400mAH. A discharge, and break in cycle on the MH-C9000 saw them increase to 2300mAH.

You get what you pay for.
 
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they do seem to be a very well specced charger at about the right money considering the level of features/modes (y)

i don't think i've seen a better alternative :thinking:
(although i'm now going to search for one :bonk:)
 
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That looks exactly like the La Crosse BC-9009... which is a great charger. Looking the same, may not be the same however... as the La Crosse used to be much more than that... around £40 as I recall. Go and ask on the Candle Power forums. They may know it more intimately.
 
Faldrax said:
For the charger experts on here, what does the Powerex offer over the much cheaper Accucell

Aamazon/AccuCell-BC-700-intelligent-Battery-Charger?

Which look, at first glance, to give similar functionality?
Click to expand...

That's the one I've got and I think it's fantastic, but then I've not really used anything else to compare it too.

I've also been using the Eneloop XXs in my battery grips and I have yet to have them run out on me in the field, even after several thousand images and a fair amount of chimping in a day.
 
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Ive been using the XX batteries for a good few months now. They do seem to work better in my devices (flash, guitar wireless system, digital recorder etc) than the lower capacity ones, although there isnt that much difference.
Im not too anal about them, as long as they get the job done then im happy. I do check the charge before using them, and do tend to charge them, or top them up, before using them for important things (cant have my bass cutting out mid set), but i do keep a spare set charged in my gig bag and on the occasion ive had to use them there seems to be plenty of charge in them, even after a few months.

I also use the AccuCell BC-700 charger and find its the best one ive had, although its also the dearest. Ive yet to use the battery conditioner or any of those fancy features, i just charge the batteries, but its nice to know my batteries are being looked after.
 
Sanyo are known to only partially charge their Eneloop XX's. The out of pack reading will not be a true indication of how much charge they hold, or how long they retain it. My son is into RC cars, so we own lots of different batteries, including standard and XX Eneloops. Using the same MH-9000 as Op, standard Eneloops hold about 1900mAh and XX's hold around 2350mAh. Note that the MH-9000 does not drain cells to completely dead state so true capacities will be slightly higher.

I have not performed any scientific long term tests, but I can say that the XX's retain more charge than standard Eneloops after being left idle for a few months. They are very good batteries, but probably not worth the premium over standard Eneloops unless you use high-drain devices such as RC cars or flash gun usage where you know you will need hundreds of pops out of a single set of batteries.
 
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OK.. results are in.

Set 1:

KBHQZ2J.jpg

4ZDUGDg.jpg

8j3ZhWF.jpg

uWNpadU.jpg


So:

1 - 101.6%
2 - 102.3%
3 - 101.3%
4 - 101.9%
 
Set 2:

AndYMAx.jpg

9XoRfJF.jpg

2lnzoG5.jpg

xdLwxnJ.jpg


So that's:

1 - 102.1%
2 - 101.2%
3 - 101.7%
4 - 101.5%


It would seem they all exceed rated capacity by a small percent. Chanced are they will improve yet further with regular use and refresh cycles.


I'll give charge retention statistics when I have them.. obviously that may be a slow trickle of information though.

For now though... these cells would seem to slightly exceed their rated capacities if broken in and charged properly.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Set 2:

AndYMAx.jpg

9XoRfJF.jpg

2lnzoG5.jpg

xdLwxnJ.jpg


So that's:

1 - 102.1%
2 - 101.2%
3 - 101.7%
4 - 101.5%


It would seem they all exceed rated capacity by a small percent. Chanced are they will improve yet further with regular use and refresh cycles.


I'll give charge retention statistics when I have them.. obviously that may be a slow trickle of information though.

For now though... these cells would seem to slightly exceed their rated capacities if broken in and charged properly.
Click to expand...
Technically, Break-in mode does not charge the batteries correctly. It deliberately overcharges the cells past delta-v cutoff and past the MH-9000's normal 1.5v safety cutoff's.

It does however show the maximum available capacity for the cells, although 2300-2400mAh will be more realistic for normal charge capacities. The method I use to test my AA's is by using standard Charge set to 500mAh, once complete allow batteries to cool for at least one hour, then standard Discharge at 500mAh.
 
Thanks for the info in the Accucel / Technoline charger - the comparison suggests the only significant advantage the Powerex has is the ability to get totally flat batteries going - which sounds useful, but not sure it warrants the extra cost for me as I'm not sure how often I'd use it.
 
Orville said:
Technically, Break-in mode does not charge the batteries correctly. It deliberately overcharges the cells past delta-v cutoff and past the MH-9000's normal 1.5v safety cutoff's.

It does however show the maximum available capacity for the cells, although 2300-2400mAh will be more realistic for normal charge capacities. The method I use to test my AA's is by using standard Charge set to 500mAh, once complete allow batteries to cool for at least one hour, then standard Discharge at 500mAh.
Click to expand...


I'll do a refresh and analyse on a set before I go. I'm not expecting a great difference between that (I'll use a 500mA charge cycle as you suggest) and the break in.
 
Great thread Dave, some interesting, if not unexpected, results.

I have been using the normal(?) Eneloops with the white coating and they are as good as advertised. They hold their charge for ages if left unused and are noticeably quicker when in use.

I really like your charger. It is like an upmarket version of the Technoline mentioned that I also use. It's a great bit of kit and looks after my batteries well.

A word of caution if not already mentioned. No matter how good your batteries are, they are only as good as your charger. Avoid the "rapid charge" chargers at all cost as prolonged use will ruin the batteries permanently.

Andy
 
Assuming the response is to my enquiry...
Tirpitz said:
that oldschool NiCad charger you have been using for years has been damaging your NiMh cells by overcharging them every time!
Click to expand...

You know which charger I'm using?

Tirpitz said:
Nicad & Nimh have very different cutoff needs when fully charged & a Nicad charger will overcharge which isn't ideal.
plus also you need a charger that treats & charges the cells on individual circuits as they will often charge at slightly different rates or have a different amount of charge left in when you put them in there.
Click to expand...

Again, you know which charger I'm using?

As it happens it's not 'old school', does deal with NimH correctly, and does charge each cell individually.
 
Pookeyhead said:
It offers full control over charge current, so you can get the best from the cells.

It offers a IEC standard of conditioning (0.1C [one tenth rated capacity] 16 hour charge, one hour rest, 0.2C discharge, one hour rest, then another 16 hour 0.1C charge.. fully controlled) and gives a report of measured capacity at the end. This ensures new cells are "broken in" correctly and offer the maxim,um capacity.

It also has a refresh and analyse mode, for keeping cells in good condition once broken in, again with a capacity report at the end.

Fully programmable charge current for a normal charge.

A fully programmable discharge mode to measure capacity, and obviously discharge the cells.

It has a programmable cycle/discharge mode that can be set to charge and discharge at a set current a set amount of times.. again, to keep cells fresh.

Cheap chargers only have a fixed current charge, and this may be either too low to activate a safe cut off, or so high that you are heating and stressing your cells too much. Basically... cheap chargers will not get the best from your cells, and in a worse case scenario, can lessen their life span and capacity.

There's zero point in getting the best cells and then sticking them in a £10 "fast" charger.

My old cells, charged with a cheap Maplin charger (£15) when analysed on the MH0C9000 only gave 1700mAH, yet they were rated at 2400mAH. A discharge, and break in cycle on the MH-C9000 saw them increase to 2300mAH.

You get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation: appreciated!
 
I must say that for the past few years ive been using a 15min Eveready charger and never had any issues with my batteries. When i got my "posh" one i thought i would re fresh the old ones but so far the only difference i see is that they now take around 2 hours to charge in the new charger, rather than 15mins.
Im sure its money well spent in the long run, and im not disagreeing with using one of these charges, just that im not really too anal about them (no offence meant to anyone).
I put them in a device, they work, they run down i recharge them.
Other than slow drain devices like remote controls, wireless mice and keyboards, and my sons toys, its just my flash and radio systems that need a good amount of power, and i tend to recharge regularly before they run out anyway, certainly before a flash session or gig.
 
digital said:
I've had a look at this and noticed 'The charger comes with EU-Plug. We deliver extra UK-Travel plug'. I thought it was illegal to sell electrical items in the UK that don't have a UK 3-pin plug as original.
Click to expand...

Its also a big bugger as well (the travel plug). The plug itself is also big and ugly, so i just use a shaver adaptor, its a bit better but its still way to big IMO.
 
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