All Formats Film Scanning Advice

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karmaan

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Matt
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Hi Everyone, I've been asked by many to join the forum and offer advice, I run some pretty big Scanners such as the Fuji Lanovia Quattros and ICG Drum Scanners and a whole array of consumer stuff from the Nikon Coolscans to Epsons, so know everything in between and what quality each knocks out.

I've been in the design/Repro trade for over 20years running the Massive Fuji Celsis & Crosfield Drum scanners back in the early 90s. I've scanned for the UKs finest galleries, National Trust, Councils and so on.

I can scan any size original, and work with many photographers taking photo's on a whole range of gear from Victorian Half Plate cameras to Horseman Panoramic. Matt
 
welcome, sounds like you'll be a great asset espesh in here. If you plan on doing anything commercial tip the admin the wink ;)
 
Sounds good Matt - I may just send some of my best slides to you for some drum scanning (y)
 
bobiscuit said:
Welcome...

And first question :D.

Which sub-£100 scanner would you recommend for 120 format film?
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Hi I wouldn't recommend any sub £500 scanner for 120 work, let alone any sub £100 scanner. Any Flatbed is OK for positional work but the flaws soon show up once you start hitting the detail. Really depends on what your final aim is to achieve. The newer Epsons are OK, I have a Epson v750 pro which is the top of the range new model but even that is a million miles off of what the Pro Pre-Press scanners produce. The later canons aren't too bad as well but the software is awful.
 
Hi Yes, thats correct, I offer bulk slide scanning and get roped into lots of high res stuff for various companies, photographers and agencies etc. I offer scanning for all budgets and projects. Usually it works out much cheaper than if people try and buy a scanner and do it themselves.
 
ekimeno said:
Sounds good Matt - I may just send some of my best slides to you for some drum scanning (y)
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No probs, just give me a nod, your welcome to send a few down for a test run, I'm in the middle of a new website with a full on scanning section with massive sized samples.
 
Fullzoom said:
Welcome Matt, you must be they same guy they were talking about in THIS thread.
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Thats right, I do get involved with a lot of photographers, I look at what they've got, the best and cheapest way of scanning and try to give a file size big enough for the end print with plenty of meg over to spare.
 
david1701 said:
welcome, sounds like you'll be a great asset espesh in here. If you plan on doing anything commercial tip the admin the wink ;)
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Hi I do commercial work as well, I get caught up with Pre Press, Photography, Scanning and all sorts
 
karmaan said:
Hi I do commercial work as well, I get caught up with Pre Press, Photography, Scanning and all sorts
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I meant through the forum I think they like to take a cut or some such but PM matty marcel or digital failure and have a word as they own the site
 
bobiscuit said:
Just an idea - how about a comparison chart. For example, the same negative scanned through various methods, including *whispers* a sub-£100 flatbed? :)
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Yeah I'll get some comparison up and posted for you guys.
 
karmaan said:
Yeah I'll get some comparison up and posted for you guys.
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I'll start posting a lot of different scan samples to give a really good idea of the differences.

Sample of 35mm Fuji RDP Tranny 80meg Scan
ModelPics6sm.jpg

100% crop of eye section
ModelPics6crop.jpg
 
Hey Matt, i'm at a bit of a quandry (sp?) do i buy an Epson V750 or do i pay to use the Hasselblad Flextight as and when i need it (local place has one - www.stills.org )?

I scan 5x4 negs and just trying to get the best quality i can from them.
 
ifotou said:
Hey Matt, i'm at a bit of a quandry (sp?) do i buy an Epson V750 or do i pay to use the Hasselblad Flextight as and when i need it (local place has one - www.stills.org )?

I scan 5x4 negs and just trying to get the best quality i can from them.
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I've got an Epson v750, it's not bad and if you don't see the same pic scanned on a high res scanner then the man in the street will think it's excellent. Unfortunately my High End Scanners make the Epson v750 look pretty blurred and dreary in comparison. The Flextights are OK but are a bit glorified and I've never really rated them that much. They produce a soft image. How much are they charging for use of the Flextight, again there is the issue of to get decent scans you need a pretty decent operator. I'll get some Epson 750 samples up compared with my Fuji & ICG Scans.
 
karmaan said:
I've got an Epson v750, it's not bad and if you don't see the same pic scanned on a high res scanner then the man in the street will think it's excellent. Unfortunately my High End Scanners make the Epson v750 look pretty blurred and dreary in comparison. The Flextights are OK but are a bit glorified and I've never really rated them that much. They produce a soft image. How much are they charging for use of the Flextight, again there is the issue of to get decent scans you need a pretty decent operator. I'll get some Epson 750 samples up compared with my Fuji & ICG Scans.
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i'm used to the 750 as we used one at college and i really quite liked that. The flextight works out at totaly (including use of the workstation) at £63 for3 hours - so around £21 an hour for use (need to self scan)

biggest problem i have is the quantity speed and price, i'm currently a student so need to scan a large volume of 5x4 negs at a reasonable price but in a timescale for college deadlines etc.
 
ifotou said:
i'm used to the 750 as we used one at college and i really quite liked that. The flextight works out at totaly (including use of the workstation) at £63 for3 hours - so around £21 an hour for use (need to self scan)

biggest problem i have is the quantity speed and price, i'm currently a student so need to scan a large volume of 5x4 negs at a reasonable price but in a timescale for college deadlines etc.
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I would say on a Flextight you'd get 5 scans an hour for an unexperienced operator, it's slow, so works out over £4 per scan. How many in total do you have to scan?? take a look at my website karmaan.co.uk maybe able to help you out a hole. You'd be better off getting the cheaper v700, for bulk images and for quality scans sending out etc. Hiring Flextight time isn't exactly cheap. for the same price you could get 63 100meg scans done.
 
karmaan said:
How many in total do you have to scan??
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oops meant to reply to that bit.

depends on what we do at college but i'd expect between now and June to go through at least 100-150 5x4 sheets (mixed B&W, colour neg and slide) and probably somewhere in the region of 5-10 rolls of 120 a month, plus the occasional 35mm
 
Karmaan,

I am stunned at the quality of the scan of the model wow!

I am just getting into film photography AFTER starting in digital which I know is the opposite to what most people do but as part of it I decided to buy a film scanner and set a budget of £200-250. I was going to buy a plustek 7500i SE but then the plustek 7600i SE came out claiming MAC compatibility and an improvement so I bought it....

Anyway I sent the first one back due to a rubbish cast on it then the replacement was WORSE!!!

Check out these two:

Scanned from the photo on £45 cheapo scanner:

flatscan.jpg



Scanned from the negative on £250 7600i SE film scanner (1st one, 2nd is worse!):

negscan.jpg



The actual picture has a very light blue gradient of sky running down to the land.

Not a very good endorsement is it?

I am waiting for them to send me a software kludge but I am expecting to be sending it back !!!

Any ideas? Mainly on what to replace it with :)
 
cowasaki said:
Karmaan,

I am stunned at the quality of the scan of the model wow!

I am just getting into film photography AFTER starting in digital which I know is the opposite to what most people do but as part of it I decided to buy a film scanner and set a budget of £200-250. I was going to buy a plustek 7500i SE but then the plustek 7600i SE came out claiming MAC compatibility and an improvement so I bought it....

Anyway I sent the first one back due to a rubbish cast on it then the replacement was WORSE!!!

Check out these two:

Scanned from the photo on £45 cheapo scanner:

flatscan.jpg



Scanned from the negative on £250 7600i SE film scanner (1st one, 2nd is worse!):

negscan.jpg



The actual picture has a very light blue gradient of sky running down to the land.

Not a very good endorsement is it?

I am waiting for them to send me a software kludge but I am expecting to be sending it back !!!

Any ideas? Mainly on what to replace it with :)
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First of all, your not mad! Film is superior to digital, you just can't achieve the colours you get with decent film on digital. Even a scan from film is better than a Digital image. Ha ha, those old Plusteks are absolute rubbish, Mustek, Plustek, Veho etc all use the same cheap guts. No matter what impressive dpi they say it's the optics that counts. Those lines you see are from the really bad stepper motors they use showing up in the grad tints. Bad scanner with even worse software. My advice is to get an Epson v500 Flatbed for around £150 or Canon 8800f both will blow the pants off the Plustek, if you can afford it go for the Epson V700 or Canon 9900f both at around £300-£350. (maybe cheaper by shopping around) For a dedicated Film Scanner you need to spend over £700 before you start seeing any benefits over one of the flatbeds I mention, but the above Flatbeds will give you a lot more options comes with plenty of film holders and much better quality than that. Don't hesitate GET YOUR CASH BACK! Hope this Helps Matt!
 
karmaan said:
First of all, your not mad! Film is superior to digital, you just can't achieve the colours you get with decent film on digital. Even a scan from film is better than a Digital image. Ha ha, those old Plusteks are absolute rubbish, Mustek, Plustek, Veho etc all use the same cheap guts. No matter what impressive dpi they say it's the optics that counts. Those lines you see are from the really bad stepper motors they use showing up in the grad tints. Bad scanner with even worse software. My advice is to get an Epson v500 Flatbed for around £150 or Canon 8800f both will blow the pants off the Plustek, if you can afford it go for the Epson V700 or Canon 9900f both at around £300-£350. (maybe cheaper by shopping around) For a dedicated Film Scanner you need to spend over £700 before you start seeing any benefits over one of the flatbeds I mention, but the above Flatbeds will give you a lot more options comes with plenty of film holders and much better quality than that. Don't hesitate GET YOUR CASH BACK! Hope this Helps Matt!
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Cheers, So if I buy an Epson V700 will that also scan negs?
 
cowasaki said:
Cheers, So if I buy an Epson V700 will that also scan negs?
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Yes, will scan pretty much anything, comes with slide holders, neg holders etc. There's hardly any difference between the V700 and the V750 pro, the pro is supposed to have a better coated glass but I've scanned on both and I can't tell the difference and I'm working on High Res stuff all the time. It's quite simple Refund on the Plustek an get a V700. Cheapest I can find is £338, or look for a canon 9950f, all will give excellent results for home use. Matt
 
cowasaki said:
Karmaan, I am stunned at the quality of the scan of the model wow!
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Really, the scan looks good but the image to me looks like it's got camera shake :shrug:
 
chivers67 said:
Really, the scan looks good but the image to me looks like it's got camera shake :shrug:
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The photo was taken on 35mm at a fashion show, so I expect the low lighting would've caused slight camera shake. If you looked hard enough you could find faults with every image ever taken on every camera in every format.:LOL:
 
Matt, Quick question for you.

Scanning 5x4, where is the theoretical optical resolution for the film? Given a scanner that yields 8000 dpi true optical resolution, would I actually get any more detail out of the image, or would I just be getting extra pixels?

I guess a lot of it comes down to the sharpness of the transparency or neg and the intended output size/resolution?

I want to get some of my LF stuff scanned and I would rather just have it scanned once at a suitably large size so I can downres it for smaller prints.
 
Gandhi said:
Matt, Quick question for you.

Scanning 5x4, where is the theoretical optical resolution for the film? Given a scanner that yields 8000 dpi true optical resolution, would I actually get any more detail out of the image, or would I just be getting extra pixels?

I guess a lot of it comes down to the sharpness of the transparency or neg and the intended output size/resolution?

I want to get some of my LF stuff scanned and I would rather just have it scanned once at a suitably large size so I can downres it for smaller prints.
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I would recommend a 200meg scan, which would be around 5000dpi. which is more than enough for large format prints that work on an 150dpi output res. You can then res down for smaller work etc. Any higher res and you'll be hitting the film grain which brings no benefits whatsoever. Remember all you need for any high quality print in Litho is 300dpi at the right size. For Inkjet and LF prints it's only 150dpi. Remember those who scan at say 4000dpi have a fixed lens system which will yield the image at the original size at 4000dpi, so this method you have to blow the image up and reduce the dpi when you want the correct sized prints. Because I have a massive lens system on my scanners I can enlarge on the fly with true optical res, so I will scan a 5x4 at 800% enlargement at 304dpi, so you've got the correct sizing structure to start with. Hope this helps
 
Excellent, the desert scene is one up for film.....in the digital ver film debates.

After a drum scan is there anything left to get off film? As I was thinking the latest films might be more advanced as development of drum scanners is/was probably stationary for years, with the popularity of digital.
 
excalibur2 said:
Excellent, the desert scene is one up for film.....in the digital ver film debates.

After a drum scan is there anything left to get off film? As I was thinking the latest films might be more advanced as development of drum scanners is/was probably stationary for years, with the popularity of digital.
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It's a strange one, a lot of newer films are actually worse, the only difference is really the film grain has become finer. A lot of older New Stock film reach stupid prices on ebay because of this. A PMT Drum Scanner will delve deep into every nook and cranny of a tranny. It's more not of detail you get with a good scan but the colour and depth and that certain oomph you just can't seem to get with digital.
 
Karmaan, the last image you posted, the desert one, says it all for me. Amazing.
 
LDDSmith said:
Karmaan, the last image you posted, the desert one, says it all for me. Amazing.
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I deal with hundreds of digital images and hundreds of film images each month, everytime the film images hold more detail and the colours are better. Even when scanned and turned to digital you can see a big difference.

Digital is getting close and ease of use means it is now the mainstay of photographers but if you want 'magic' to appear in your images then stick with film.
 
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