England football manager & the British national anthem.

mj4456

mj4456

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Reading on the BBC, I know not the best news system but, why is it the British anthem they play, shouldn’t England get their own to sing at sporting events, maybe Oasis could do them a new one?
 
Maybe Don’t look back in Anger for all the Southgate whingers out there. :ROFLMAO:
 
I'm afraid I'm one of those awful people who think "Not my King" but even so I think a role like England manager should come with some provisos and singing the national album and at least convincingly looking like you mean it should be one of them. But these days we're lucky he hasn't said he'll sing some Palestinian/Hamas dirge. "From the river to the sea" maybe?

Other than that, yes, England should have a national anthem but of course singing Jerusalem or Land of hope and glory would be extreme right wing and comrade Two Tier would have anyone doing so inside pdq.

I do remember some British Isles competition years ago, maybe Rugby? during which England did have their own anthem but I don't remember it happening again, probably because Irish, Welsh and Scottish nationalism are things to admire whilst English nationalism is obviously far right and to be ruthlessly suppressed. Sorry for the long and bitter reply but whilst my tongue is slightly in cheek I'm sure the above points are to some extent in this somewhere.
 
mj4456 said:
Reading on the BBC, I know not the best news system but, why is it the British anthem they play, shouldn’t England get their own to sing at sporting events, maybe Oasis could do them a new one?
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If you are suggesting that one dysfunctional family should write the theme tune for another dysfunctional family then “Half the Word Away” springs to mind.
 
benc98 said:
People should be free to sing it or not - it's a free country with free speech after all.

Jerusalem is a much better song btw :)
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Quite. But is there another country in the world where the national football team manager wouldn't be expected to sing the national anthem? We don't have to follow like sheep but I do find it interesting that so many people in England specifically object to doing something which is probably the norm in just about any other country. Even in those with a much worse history behind them.
 
benc98 said:
People should be free to sing it or not - it's a free country with free speech after all.

Jerusalem is a much better song btw :)
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My bold:
Just about anything is better than our anthem. It's not a 'national anthem' per se..it's in glorification of the monarch. There's no mention of the country. When we go to the Royal Albert Hall and the anthem is played,as it sometimes is, I stand not wishing to embarrass my wife, but sing not a word. What surprised me,looking round at the audience near me and also, from the circle, I was able to look down on the people in the stalls, was just how many other people stood but didn't sing. Let's have an anthem about the country not the head of state. It doesn't take account of atheists ,either. I mute the sound on the TV at sports events when it's played. I put surround sound on for the Welsh anthem....:)..usually the rugby games. Wonderful to hear. I do the same for the Italian anthem (akin to an opera piece) and the French anthem... again usually at rugby/football games The Russian national anthem is pretty stirring, too and the US anthem,likewise. There's a wonderful one which I can't recall. I heard it during one of the football World Cups.

Jerusalem is very much misunderstood.It's inapproriate. Elgar's Pomp and Circumstance March No.1 is a great tune. Just needs appropriate wording. Can hardly describe here as the 'Land of Hope and Glory can we .. :)
 
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Although by no means extremist or militant about it I am, by leaning and by instinct, a republican agnostic with an intolerance of dirges.

Ours is the worst national anthem. Horrible.

The two best things about France - La Manche et La Marseillaise.
 
gerry s said:
We're not allowed to be patriotic anymore. The English flag is frowned upon.
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When I lived in West Lodon I used to. fly a Union Jack on a pole in the garden. One St Georges Day I decided to raise the George Cross, and left it up for a few days before replacing it with the Union Jack. I had a knock on the door and somebody from the council was responding to a complaint that I was flying the George Cross. I told him in no uncertain terms that I would fly the flag of my country whenever I felt like it. I raised the Cross that day and it stayed up for over a year before I flew the Union flag again.

It's a bit much when you can't fly the flag of the country you live in because somebody complains. I never heard from the council again, I wasn't breaking any laws so they never pursued it.
 
simon ess said:
Although by no means extremist or militant about it I am, by leaning and by instinct, a republican agnostic with an intolerance of dirges.

Ours is the worst national anthem. Horrible.

The two best things about France - La Manche et La Marseillaise.
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We have a national anthem that sounds more like music for the funeral of a monarch and an uplifting patriot celebration.
Agree about the French national anthem and the Italian one is also a good one. Whenever I hear the Italian national anthem I think the music just says these are people who enjoy themselves.

Dave
 
Maybe a new song something like " What happened to the UK ? Where did it go ? "
 
andya700 said:
Which has absolutely nothing to do with a dirge of a national anthem, which coerces people into paying homage to an outdated monarchy, which is possible the most dysfunctional family in these Isles.
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I know it's nothing to do with the anthem but I now live in Bournemouth and the town hall flew the rainbow flag on pride day., which is obviously fine but refused to fly the English flag on St George's day in case it offended some people.
 
benc98 said:
People should be free to sing it or not - it's a free country with free speech after all.

Jerusalem is a much better song btw :)
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I find Jerusalem totally unsuitable. The song keeps referring to a foreign capital. I do not think it is a song but a Hymn and thus religious which should also disqualify it. The Ralph McTell song above ticks most the boxes.

Dave
 
Having watched England's performance against Ireland I thought in the first half they were ok against mediocre opposition and in the second half they took a break and just didn't bother. If they do that against a decent team they'll get a second half spanking and deservedly so. I think I could put up with a manager who didn't want to sing if the performance on the pitch was good but here I think we have the worst of both. An anti anthem manager and a team who seem unwilling or incapable of playing well for a whole match. The more things change the more they stay the same.
 
Dave Canon said:
I find Jerusalem totally unsuitable. The song keeps referring to a foreign capital. I do not think it is a song but a Hymn and thus religious which should also disqualify it. The Ralph McTell song above ticks most the boxes.

Dave
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eh? The song is about building Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land. If you can't work out the sentiment behind that Gosh help you.
 
andya700 said:
Which has absolutely nothing to do with a dirge of a national anthem, which coerces people into paying homage to an outdated monarchy, which is possible the most dysfunctional family in these Isles.
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Outdated? By what? Be careful what you wish for.

I agree about them being dysfunctional but using that as a stick to beat anyone with should be unacceptable to anyone with even an ounce of compassion or empathy and even "Not my King" I would take the dysfunctional royals over President Comrade Two Tier.
 
From 5.00pm to 6.00pm today, on LBC Radio there was a phone-in on the national anthem. I don't recall anyone claiming that it was fine. Every caller,and that included monarchists, think it's awful and everyone wants an anthem about the country not the Head of State. It's not going to happen because 'they'.. won't let it happen because 'they' want to remind us of our place 'They' being those 'grey people' referred to as "Palace sources,' when any statement is required. It's all about the debilitating class system we have in this country ,the pinnacle of which is represented by the Royal Family.

Very few people will be aware of the words of the second verse on the anthem. . Btw..It's all in 4/4 time so that's why it sounds like a dirge. 3/4 time is livelier.

O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter her enemies,
And make them fall.
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all.

I may as well throw this in here.

Prince Harry will be 40 on September 15th whereupon he will become eligible to receive millions of pounds from a family trust fund set up by the Queen Mother when he was 10 years old. The first tranche went to her grandchildren when they reached 21. She is said to have deposited around £19million in a fund in 1994 to leave as a tax-free lump sum for her grandchildren.

Oh yes... and this. Published July 24th. . A copy/paste. Seems strange to me that because the Crown Estate has increased profits the Sovereign Grant increases. A win-win situation you could say.

The monarchy is to get an extra £45m due to soaring profits from the Crown Estate.The income boost comes from a surge in profits from the estate, due to six new offshore wind farms...[My addition.. Many more to follow under the stewardship of Ed Miliband and his green policies]. Profits from the Crown Estate have increased to £1.1bn, which in turn will lead to a rise in the Sovereign Grant,[that means from general taxation] which pays for the Royal Family's running costs. The grant will rise from £86.3m in 2024/25 to to £132m in 2025/2026 - which will help pay for the last stages of renovating Buckingham Palace, officials said. The annual finance report also revealed plans by the Royal Family to buy two new helicopters and that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s former home Frogmore Cottage is still empty, a year after they left..

Andrew seems to be in line for that cottage. It's not a cottage as most of us envisage. It's a massive house.
 
Jelster said:
When I lived in West Lodon I used to. fly a Union Jack on a pole in the garden. One St Georges Day I decided to raise the George Cross, and left it up for a few days before replacing it with the Union Jack. I had a knock on the door and somebody from the council was responding to a complaint that I was flying the George Cross. I told him in no uncertain terms that I would fly the flag of my country whenever I felt like it. I raised the Cross that day and it stayed up for over a year before I flew the Union flag again.

It's a bit much when you can't fly the flag of the country you live in because somebody complains. I never heard from the council again, I wasn't breaking any laws so they never pursued it.
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You can. The complainant should have been told that you were entirely within the law and it stopped there before even reaching you. You can fly any country's flag, plus a number of others, without requiring local authority consent:

www.gov.uk

Flying flags: a plain English guide

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

JohnC6 said:
The monarchy is to get an extra £45m due to soaring profits from the Crown Estate.The income boost comes from a surge in profits from the estate, due to six new offshore wind farms...[My addition.. Many more to follow under the stewardship of Ed Miliband and his green policies]. Profits from the Crown Estate have increased to £1.1bn, which in turn will lead to a rise in the Sovereign Grant,[that means from general taxation] which pays for the Royal Family's running costs. The grant will rise from £86.3m in 2024/25 to to £132m in 2025/2026 - which will help pay for the last stages of renovating Buckingham Palace, officials said. The annual finance report also revealed plans by the Royal Family to buy two new helicopters and that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s former home Frogmore Cottage is still empty, a year after they left..
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The crown estates were given to the country by the sovereign in return for what is now called the Sovereign grant. So it looks like it's a net benefit to the exchequer of about £1billion a year through having them, rather than the sovereign keeping them and funding themselves, if by copy and pasting that block of text you are implying that the agreement under which the state holds the crown estates should be reversed. What that's got to do with the England sportsball manager I don't know though.
 
woof woof said:
eh? The song is about building Jerusalem in England's green and pleasant land. If you can't work out the sentiment behind that Gosh help you.
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Of course I can, but that is religious (it is a Christian Hymn). At the last Census 46.2% claimed to be Christian. There are other religions in the UK and a large number who are not religious. So rather than offend anyone keep religion out of the Anthem. While I applaud the Scots for sorting out a national anthem, the moaning about Edward 1 is silly as it was so long ago.

Dave
 
I think Blake was taking the p*** frankly.

Get the peasants slaving in the fires of hell but tell them they're striving worthily for a New Jerusalem.

But what do I know.
 
Dave Canon said:
Of course I can, but that is religious (it is a Christian Hymn).
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It's not. Blake didn't write it as one in "Milton" that the words come from (don't read his actual work "Jerusalem" as that's something completely different and much longer) and Parry didn't write the music for that purpose either. Despite the CofE later adopting it, it's nothing like a hymn in content either. The first half asks a series of metaphysical questions to which the literal answer (if you read and believe the Christian bible) is "no". The second half is about building a better England. I was made to sing a lot of hymns as a child, none of them were anything like that. They were mostly prayers to their God, set to music.
 
We all know about the troublesome 5th verse, right? The one about crushing Scots.....
 
JonathanRyan said:
We all know about the troublesome 5th verse, right? The one about crushing Scots...
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That anti-Scottish verse was added after the original was written and it's not known by whom but it fell out of regular use more than 100 years ago. We're all friends now. I'm married to one :)

I wanted to find out more about him. Seems that George Wade ( General and then Field Marshall) had built or strengthened 250 miles of road and nearly 40 bridges across the Highlands. 1724-1740. One of them I've been across. Wade's bridge (1733) at the lovely town of Aberfeldy,Highland Perthshire. We stayed in a lochan (small loch) log cabin at Glengoulande 8 miles away. The roads served a military purpose, but they also made the Highlands more accessible, allowing wealth and new life into the area. Sort of what the Romans did here. He was born in Ireland to English parents who settled there. Wade did not want to subjugate the Highlands for the benefit of the Lowlanders or the English but rather wanted to see it policed by its own people for their own benefit and he reintroduced the formation of the Independent Highland Companies to keep watch in the more troublesome areas.

The offending verse.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring;
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush!
God save the King!

By the way. I can highly recommentd the place we stayed at. We stayed in the cabin 3rd right in the top photo. Quite a bit of wildlife around,too..for photos.

www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk

Glengoulandie Lodges ~ On The Waterfront | Self Catering Holiday Lodges near Aberfeldy and Pitlochry in Highland Perthshire, great central location

Luxury holiday lodges, self catering accommodation in Highland Perthshire between Aberfeldy and Pitlochry with Glengoulandie Lodges ~ On The Waterfront. Great central location.
www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk
 
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It’s time for England to have its own national anthem and to use the St George flag, not God Save the King/Queen with the Union flag which are surely for GB/UK events?
 
JohnC6 said:
That anti-Scottish verse was added after the original was written and it's not known by whom but it fell out of regular use more than 100 years ago. We're all friends now. I'm married to one :)

I wanted to find out more about him. Seems that George Wade ( General and then Field Marshall) had built or strengthened 250 miles of road and nearly 40 bridges across the Highlands. 1724-1740. One of them I've been across. Wade's bridge (1733) at the lovely town of Aberfeldy,Highland Perthshire. We stayed in a lochan (small loch) log cabin at Glengoulande 8 miles away. The roads served a military purpose, but they also made the Highlands more accessible, allowing wealth and new life into the area. Sort of what the Romans did here. He was born in Ireland to English parents who settled there. Wade did not want to subjugate the Highlands for the benefit of the Lowlanders or the English but rather wanted to see it policed by its own people for their own benefit and he reintroduced the formation of the Independent Highland Companies to keep watch in the more troublesome areas.

The offending verse.

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring;
May he sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush!
God save the King!

By the way. I can highly recommentd the place we stayed at. We stayed in the cabin 3rd right in the top photo. Quite a bit of wildlife around,too..for photos.

www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk

Glengoulandie Lodges ~ On The Waterfront | Self Catering Holiday Lodges near Aberfeldy and Pitlochry in Highland Perthshire, great central location

Luxury holiday lodges, self catering accommodation in Highland Perthshire between Aberfeldy and Pitlochry with Glengoulandie Lodges ~ On The Waterfront. Great central location.
www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk www.glengoulandielodges.co.uk
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Without Wade's new roads the highland clearances probably wouldn't have been feasible. They also helped the English to overcome rebellions to their rule.
 
I'm for a change to the anthem, lots of countries have changed there over the centuries.

Ours (Britain) is uninspiring to most people, maybe be some sort of contest were the public pick a newly written one. Something that is more appropriate to modern British life.

I see no reason not to have an England one too.
 
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