Have Amazon sold me a Fake B+W Filter?

[GeorgeK]

I have bought a few B+W filters over the last few years, the most recent 2 of which from Amazon (themselves not a third-part seller) - one was bought this week and one in January. I opened the most recent one today and am not convinced that it is a genuine product. Below I have put a couple of photos of the filters in question. Both are supposed to be 77mm 010M XS-Pro Digital filters and so I would have thought that they would have been identical but the one on the right (the older of the two) is quite a lot heavier - 32g compared to the one on the left which is only 18g - and also has gold coloured lettering all over. All of my other B+W filters also have gold lettering all over apart from the newest one which I think could be fake - it has gold / bronze lettering around the edge of the filter but white lettering on the front of the filter. The fonts would appear to be different as well.

I have emailed B+W themselves but have not had a response yet.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

George

Two filters side by side - heavier on the right, lighter on the left

Filter case and box (front)

Filter case and box (back)

 

[simonbarker]

I would have assumed that's down to differences in how they've made both rather than one being a fake, that's purely an assumption though.

I'd almost say the one on the left was missing a coating given how they look in the photo, that might account for the different colour on the text too. Take it to a shop with recent stock and see how it compares.

 

[Retune]

Looks very dubious, especially at a weight that suggests Al rather than brass:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=22622

Your box also has the green sticker seen on the fakes.

Edit: Just checked three B+W XS-Pro filters and all have gold text on the front. None have the 'Genuine product, honest' green sticker on the front of the box, but all have a Schneider hologram/QR code sticker on the side of the box.

 

[markyboy.1967]

I have the KSM XSpro bought from B&H in New York and it has the gold writing on the front, going by weight i would say it doesnt feel light and would guess at brass rim. Hope this helps.

 

[ChrisH]

I think you'll find most filters are now made in Aluminium or Magnesium. The days of using brass for filter rings are long past.

I've always bought Hoya filters and over the years their engraved lettering does change and slightly differences of anodising do creep in.

The fact that the writing is identical would make me think it's genuine.

( although I'm in the gang of not sticking a UV filter on a lens for no reason )

 

[GeorgeK]

I would have assumed that's down to differences in how they've made both rather than one being a fake, that's purely an assumption though.

It's possible I suppose. I don't think I have any local shops that would stock B+W filters. I live in Ashford, Kent so I think the nearest would probably be London...

Looks very dubious, especially at a weight that suggests Al rather than brass:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=22622

Your box also has the green sticker seen on the fakes.

Thanks for the link - much appreciated. I have the boxes for the other filters in the loft so I'll compare them with this one.

Sounds like it may well be a fake then. Great. The aggravating thing is that I paid Amazon extra over a third party seller to try to avoid getting a fake but that article would seem to suggest that Amazon mixes its stock with the third party 'fulfilled by Amazon' stock and so you can't even be certain of getting a real one by paying Amazon more.

 

[Canon Bob]

....... the most recent 2 of which from Amazon (themselves not a third-part seller)

Be aware that Amazon and third party sellers "fulfilled by Amazon" all come from the same stock location so you still can't be certain whether it's an Amazon sourced item or one sourced by a third party and delivered to Amazon for sale on their behalf.


Edit....as you've now realised, I see.

 

[HoppyUK]

AFAIK B+W filter mounts are brass rather than aluminium, they make a marketing point about this, and they're noticeably heavier. So unless B+W has recently changed that, it would be a conclusive difference. The multi-coating (if any) will likely reflect different colours on a fake, and the writing of XS-Pro rather than XS-PRO is another easy to spot difference that B+W should be able to confirm.

 

[Retune]

AFAIK B+W filter mounts are brass rather than aluminium, they make a marketing point about this, and they're noticeably heavier. So unless B+W has recently changed that, it would be a conclusive difference. The multi-coating (if any) will likely reflect different colours on a fake, and the writing of XS-Pro rather than XS-PRO is another easy to spot difference that B+W should be able to confirm.

Yes, they are brass except in a couple of unusual models mentioned in the link above (and since there aren't brass variants of these, there won't be a weight difference between samples). Two of my filters have 'Pro' on the front, and one (the largest and I think the newest) has 'PRO'. All have 'PRO' on the outside of the rim. I'm hoping the difference in case on the front is only a style change and I don't just have better fakes (!) - I can see both versions in images from an authorised dealer, B&H:

 

[Box Brownie]

I have bought a few B+W filters over the last few years, the most recent 2 of which from Amazon (themselves not a third-part seller) - one was bought this week and one in January. I opened the most recent one today and am not convinced that it is a genuine product. Below I have put a couple of photos of the filters in question. Both are supposed to be 77mm 010M XS-Pro Digital filters and so I would have thought that they would have been identical but the one on the right (the older of the two) is quite a lot heavier - 32g compared to the one on the left which is only 18g - and also has gold coloured lettering all over. All of my other B+W filters also have gold lettering all over apart from the newest one which I think could be fake - it has gold / bronze lettering around the edge of the filter but white lettering on the front of the filter. The fonts would appear to be different as well.

I have emailed B+W themselves but have not had a response yet.

Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

George

Two filters side by side - heavier on the right, lighter on the left

Filter case and box (front)

Filter case and box (back)

Hard to tell but is the one on the left a "thin" version compared to the one on the right, hence a possible reason for the weight difference. Plus, (again hard to tell) but is the one on the right threaded to take a stacking filter but the left one not threaded???

Though I would have thought such variations will be marked with a designater?

 

[Retune]

Yes, the genuine variations have different designators, so that doesn't explain the difference here. Their thicker filters are called F-Pro, and they used to make 'Slim' filters without front threads (replaced with XS-Pro, which do have front threads).

 

[Gogster]

If you're in any doubt, just return it. Amazon don't mess around on returns and buy it somewhere else. It's possible in the big, no gargantuan machine that is Amazon that fake products escape their quality control, but you always have the advantage of no quibble returns.

 

[GeorgeK]

AFAIK B+W filter mounts are brass rather than aluminium, they make a marketing point about this, and they're noticeably heavier. So unless B+W has recently changed that, it would be a conclusive difference. The multi-coating (if any) will likely reflect different colours on a fake, and the writing of XS-Pro rather than XS-PRO is another easy to spot difference that B+W should be able to confirm.

That was my thought - the weight was noticably different between the two even before I put them on the scales and it isn't one of the models that they make in something other than brass. I have two 72mm XS-PRO UV-HAZE 010M filters and they weight precisely the same amount (31g).

Hard to tell but is the one on the left a "thin" version compared to the one on the right, hence a possible reason for the weight difference. Plus, (again hard to tell) but is the one on the right threaded to take a stacking filter but the left one not threaded???

Though I would have thought such variations will be marked with a designater?

That's a good point. After reading your post I had a look and B+W do make a thin (slim) version but that's not what I ordered. Also the model number for the slim one is different from the one I have.

Edit: Something is definitely not right. The box says MRC NANO CLEAR which is not the 010M but the 007. The box however also says that it is the 010M 1066125 which should be the UV-HAZE not CLEAR. I've looked and the other boxes I have are all consistent and not the same as this one including no green sticker. I'd put money on this being fake. It's going back asap - I wonder if it's worth trying to get across to Amazon the fact that they're selling counterfeit goods to stop others getting stung?

 

[Box Brownie]

That was my thought - the weight was noticably different between the two even before I put them on the scales and it isn't one of the models that they make in something other than brass. I have two 72mm XS-PRO UV-HAZE 010M filters and they weight precisely the same amount (31g).



That's a good point. After reading your post I had a look and B+W do make a thin (slim) version but that's not what I ordered. Also the model number for the slim one is different from the one I have.

Edit: Something is definitely not right. The box says MRC NANO CLEAR which is not the 010M but the 007. The box however also says that it is the 010M 1066125 which should be the UV-HAZE not CLEAR. I've looked and the other boxes I have are all consistent and not the same as this one including no green sticker. I'd put money on this being fake. It's going back asap - I wonder if it's worth trying to get across to Amazon the fact that they're selling counterfeit goods to stop others getting stung?

I have when there is an issue related to a return raised it via a chat......that way there is a record transcript of the chat.

 

[Retune]

A straight return should be no problem, but I suspect getting Amazon to stop mixing up the real filters with the fakes will be much more of a challenge. They must know this sort of thing goes on, but it's just cheaper to operate with interchangeable stock. Some Amazon (and even ebay) traders that sell filters are store fronts for respectable camera shops (including several in Germany), and ship directly - might be a better bet these days than those using the central fulfillment system, including Amazon itself.

 

[GeorgeK]

I suspect getting Amazon to stop mixing up the real filters with the fakes will be much more of a challenge.

My thoughts too - they'd have to change their whole business model with regards items that both they and third parties sell... Looks like I won't be buying any more filters from Amazon then... Must just be chance this time as the others I've bought were all from them too and they all appear to be the real deal at least...

 

[HoppyUK]

My understanding is that goods 'sold by Amazon' are sourced by Amazon and they make every effort to ensure they're genuine. If they're not, they will definitely want to know and will put a stop to it.

Goods not sold by Amazon, but fulfilled by them, are not automatically the same - they might be, might not be. Equally, goods sold/fulfilled by a third party may or may not be the same. Either way, Amazon will want to know and will put pressure on the seller to sort things out. Repeat offenders/sellers can get kicked out. Amazon takes quite a strong line because even if it's not their fault it still reflects badly on them.

Hoya provides a list of their authorised retailers, including Amazon.
https://www.intro2020.co.uk/Site/Hoya?CatalogueLevelItemID=490180ab-4727-44b3-bf01-98a746a0fd5d

 

[Retune]

My understanding is that goods 'sold by Amazon' are sourced by Amazon and they make every effort to ensure they're genuine.

I also used to assume this, but apparently there's no guarantee of it if a third party seller offers a supposedly identical product and allows 'commingling'. You are then relying on QA people at the Amazon warehouses to spot the fakes, which they don't always do:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/on-amazon-pooled-merchandise-opens-door-to-knockoffs-1399852852

Nowadays a reliable third party seller that makes its own direct shipping arrangements may be a better bet if you are buying a product that is often faked.

Edit: If the WSJ article above is paywalled, stick the title in Google and click it from the search results to get the full text.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I've had fake or defective memory cards from Amazon before; last one thankfully has decent enough read/write speed so may be legit. The filter seems to be made from Aluminium which is absolutely not right, and given my Amazon experience a very plausible possibility. You may even find it has different coatings (seen as different colour by moving filter around the light). I'd just return it and buy a top of the line Hoya HD or something along those lines.

 

[HoppyUK]

I also used to assume this, but apparently there's no guarantee of it if a third party seller offers a supposedly identical product and allows 'commingling'. You are then relying on QA people at the Amazon warehouses to spot the fakes, which they don't always do:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/on-amazon-pooled-merchandise-opens-door-to-knockoffs-1399852852

Nowadays a reliable third party seller that makes its own direct shipping arrangements may be a better bet if you are buying a product that is often faked.

Edit: If the WSJ article above is paywalled, stick the title in Google and click it from the search results to get the full text.

There certainly used to be a problem of fakes from Amazon, a few years ago when it first became a widespread problem. But they've introduced much tighter controls since then - the article linked from the WSJ is from 2014.

I can't believe that Amazon's own sourced products are mixed up in the same bin as apparently identical products sourced by third party sellers. That would be madness and undo all the work Amazon has done to weed out fakes from their own supply chain.

 

[Retune]

There certainly used to be a problem of fakes from Amazon, a few years ago when it first became a widespread problem. But they've introduced much tighter controls since then - the article linked from the WSJ is from 2014.

I can't believe that Amazon's own sourced products are mixed up in the same bin as apparently identical products sourced by third party sellers. That would be madness and undo all the work Amazon has done to weed out fakes from their own supply chain.

Madness indeed, but sadly this seems to be exactly what's happening, and there are many more recent articles that cover the same issue, e.g:

https://www.inc.com/sonya-mann/amazon-counterfeits-no-starch.html

'Shipped and sold by Amazon.com means that the product is shipped and sold by Amazon Retail (via Vendor Central or Vendor Express) directly. Basically, the manufacturer sends product to Amazon.com at a set price through a traditional PO process. This inventory is commingled with all other FBA [Fulfilled by Amazon] inventory.'

'Richard added, "[T]he consumer always thinks the chain is: Manufacturer » Amazon » Me. But the reality is that is pretty much never guaranteed. The only way that's guaranteed is if you find the manufacturer's listing on Amazon.com and buy via [F]ulfilled by Amazon directly from them, AND they happen to choose to opt out of commingled inventory. In every other scenario there's a chance that you get inventory that didn't come from the manufacturer."'

http://www.e-enforce.com/tackling-counterfeit-problem-amazon-com/

'Moreover, the company’s internal operations show a disturbing disregard for counterfeit detection. Although Amazon has internal investigation teams within its warehouses, those employees are reported to be poorly trained. This is due, in part, to notoriously high turnover – rarely do employees last a year on Amazon’s payroll. Thus, those charged with detecting counterfeits are frequently new to the job and unqualified to identify a fake.'

I was suggesting Amazon as a good supplier of filters just the other week, but George's experience was a bit of a wake up call, and a bit of digging suggests this is a widespread problem they haven't solved.

 

[GeorgeK]

I've not yet heard back from B+W themselves (presumably because it's the weekend) but I've decided to just go ahead and request a refund from Amazon. There's no way that this is real what with the weight discrepancy and also the code / model name on the box not adding up. I'll try to get in touch with Amazon to tell them that they're selling fakes but it's not a top priority for me atm to be honest. Frustrating thing is how much more other online shops want for the same filter (next cheapest I think is Park and they want £85 over Amazon's £65)

 

[Canon Bob]

...... Frustrating thing is how much more other online shops want for the same filter (next cheapest I think is Park and they want £85 over Amazon's £65)

One would hope that it's not the same filter!

 

[GeorgeK]

One would hope that it's not the same filter!

I meant direct from Park Cameras haha - learned my lesson about buying from Amazon or any of their third party sellers...

 

[GeorgeK]

So I reported it to Amazon and they appear to be denying everything. Interestingly they have said that they source all their stock "from authorised suppliers, directly from the manufacturer and reputable sources." They have also said that they "don't have any more inventory of this item and we're currently not expecting any to arrive". Seems odd that when I checked earlier on today they themselves had 9 of this particular filter in stock and also showed as having others available from third party suppliers but 'fulfilled by Amazon' - seems like they've pulled all of the stock from sale. Not sure whether to push this any further or not - either way I'm getting my money back but there's also the fact that others may be buying dodgy goods from them and they don't seem to want to do anything about it until they're caught out...