Help from LF people please.

soupdragon

soupdragon

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Tony
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I have six brand new Toyo 4X5 film holders.
I loaded five of them with a new box of Kodak Ektar about three weeks back.
Finally got to go out with the camera yesterday.
Anyhoo, I managed to ruin four sheets of film as, when replacing the dark slide, I discovered the blade had gone under the film as opposed to covering it from ambient.

I can say that the film was not visible after I had loaded it in the holders.

Has anyone ever seen this before?
Is it possible I loaded the film incorrectly?

Perhaps I have bought from a dud batch of holders.

All comments appreciated.
 
I have misloaded a holder, having one side of the film sheet not properly in the groove but got the darkslide in the holder with no problem. Having removed it for the exposure, it didn't go back in over the film.
 
The chances are they were loaded improperly, I'm sorry to say!

Were the holders dropped at all? I'm wondering if a very sharp jolt could be enough to 'de-rail' the film within the holder. That being said, this exact issue has never happened for me, so perhaps this is unlikely!

For future, I recommend finding (feeling) the sharp corner of each rail (the entrance to the opening that the film is slid into) with your finger once the film is loaded. If you can't feel the sharp corner, the film itself is covering it, and this will highlight the mistake. When loading myself, I load in landscape format with the dark slide protruding out to the right, and the flap open to the left. I find the end of the rails with my right hand (thumb and middle finger) while holding the sheet with my left. With my finger tips overhanging the sharp corners, I can then feel the film sliding under my finger tips, ensuring the film is inserted under the rails. Another check, if you're super paranoid, is to then try to lift the left hand end of the film up slightly, as if unloading, and you'll feel the film flex equally in both left hand corners. If one corner is not under the rail, it will be very obvious.
 
Woodsy said:
The chances are they were loaded improperly, I'm sorry to say!

Were the holders dropped at all? I'm wondering if a very sharp jolt could be enough to 'de-rail' the film within the holder. That being said, this exact issue has never happened for me, so perhaps this is unlikely!

For future, I recommend finding (feeling) the sharp corner of each rail (the entrance to the opening that the film is slid into) with your finger once the film is loaded. If you can't feel the sharp corner, the film itself is covering it, and this will highlight the mistake. When loading myself, I load in landscape format with the dark slide protruding out to the right, and the flap open to the left. I find the end of the rails with my right hand (thumb and middle finger) while holding the sheet with my left. With my finger tips overhanging the sharp corners, I can then feel the film sliding under my finger tips, ensuring the film is inserted under the rails. Another check, if you're super paranoid, is to then try to lift the left hand end of the film up slightly, as if unloading, and you'll feel the film flex equally in both left hand corners. If one corner is not under the rail, it will be very obvious.
Click to expand...

That's the way I do it too (although I have the dark slide to the left :) )
 
Another way to ensure that the film doesn't end up above the rails is to pull the darkslide out about an inch, more - just enough of a gap to slide the sheet of film in. Since the darkslide is already mostly in place the film can't end up in the channel above the rail.
 
FruitFlakes said:
Another way to ensure that the film doesn't end up above the rails is to pull the darkslide out about an inch, more - just enough of a gap to slide the sheet of film in. Since the darkslide is already mostly in place the film can't end up in the channel above the rail.
Click to expand...
I used to pull it out just enough that the edge aligned with the notch, it was the only way I could load properly!
 
Never thought of that.
I'll give it a dry run later.
 
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FishyFish said:
As you have a few sheets of damaged film now, use them to practice loading the holders in daylight. Do it with your eyes closed and then check them after to see if they're loaded properly.
Click to expand...
Yes, a bit like loading rollfilm into a developing tank, practice with spoiled material, practice makes perfect:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yes, a bit like loading rollfilm into a developing tank, practice with spoiled material, practice makes perfect:)
Click to expand...
I am not inexperienced with large format film handling.
I have only ever had the described issue with the last six brand new Toyo film holders.
Woodsy said:
The chances are they were loaded improperly, I'm sorry to say!

Were the holders dropped at all? I'm wondering if a very sharp jolt could be enough to 'de-rail' the film within the holder. That being said, this exact issue has never happened for me, so perhaps this is unlikely!

For future, I recommend finding (feeling) the sharp corner of each rail (the entrance to the opening that the film is slid into) with your finger once the film is loaded. If you can't feel the sharp corner, the film itself is covering it, and this will highlight the mistake. When loading myself, I load in landscape format with the dark slide protruding out to the right, and the flap open to the left. I find the end of the rails with my right hand (thumb and middle finger) while holding the sheet with my left. With my finger tips overhanging the sharp corners, I can then feel the film sliding under my finger tips, ensuring the film is inserted under the rails. Another check, if you're super paranoid, is to then try to lift the left hand end of the film up slightly, as if unloading, and you'll feel the film flex equally in both left hand corners. If one corner is not under the rail, it will be very obvious.
Click to expand...
The holders were not dropped.
I always check the film is flat to the face of the holder itself and that the film has dropped below the two retaining bumps.
Also, when I tried to deliberately mis-load the holders I could not get the slide back into the flap.

If anyone finds time on their hands perhaps they could try and incorrectly load a holder and let me know how it goes.

It was a quite windy day when I was shooting and wonder if differential air pressure raised the edge of the film allowing the slide to go under it.
 
Straw clutching time. Any chance they are 9x12 and not 4x5? After some searching, I found that Toyo 9x12 have 4x5 stamped at the top and (possibly stickers) lower down saying 9x12.

I'm suggesting this as I have Fidelity 13x18 holders with 5x7 stamped on them far more clearly than the small print 13x18 - bought as 5x7 as the price sticker covered the small print...

I have to admit I'd be VERY surprised if they were 9x12 though.
 
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