Beginner How to start reading photos to make good critiques?

sk66 said:
That does nothing for me... I do not find it interesting nor thought provoking/compelling. I also do not think it is a particularly difficult picture to take; especially with flash.

Now, if the veil had been cut loose and was blowing away that could say something... I.e. whatever the veil represents (e.g. marriage) and leaving/loss/separation (child to adult, etc). It would also be a more difficult image to make...
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I will respect your opinion. I don't agree but I'm not going to try and persuade you otherwise either. (y) I will just say that all the pictures I've posted have come from heavily curated street photography groups. It's just a case of one either gets it or they don't.
 
benc98 said:
I agree with the other comments, it's a 'fun one' but you sort of move on to the next photo and forget you ever saw it
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Admittedly not the best example I could have posted given that most of the people posting in this discussion don't even practise or care that much for street photography.
 
Merlin5 said:
Admittedly not the best example I could have posted given that most of the people posting in this discussion don't even practise or care that much for street photography.
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Nothing you've posted would I class as street.
 
Merlin5 said:
Sorry about that. How about this one?

www.artsy.net

Alex Webb | Tehuantepec, Mexico (1985) | Available for Sale | Artsy

Available for sale from Robert Klein Gallery, Alex Webb, Tehuantepec, Mexico (1985), Fuji Crystal Archive print, 40 × 50 in
www.artsy.net www.artsy.net

Rubbish isn't it. Just a bunch of people standing around.
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I do not understand that US$7,000??

I prefer my "Bull_fight" - for a fiver - but I would wouldn't I

TP_Bull_fight.jpg
 
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BillN_33 said:
I prefer my "Bull_fight" - for a fiver - but I would wouldn't I

TP_Bull_fight.jpg
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It's not level! :LOL:

Seriously there also comes a point when it doesn't matter what you do, it's who you are.
 
BillN_33 said:
That's a mere detail

It's Spain!!!
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but on a serious note you can see why Bullfighting is still supported in parts of northern Spain and SW France - they start as kids - (but support is decreasing!)
 
Cockney said:
See? That's the trouble. Have an opinion that someone disagrees with and they turn into,, well, you.
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Are you trying to troll me mate? Looks that way. Seems you've decided you don't like me so you've made ignorant comments to me here. And I see you went into the street photos forum and posted a comment to me in Bill_N33s Tokyo thread about it not being a train and 3 passengers but it's in fact a water taxi and 5 passengers. Great, well done you.

The more important point is that I complimented him on one of his photos and gave some critique on the second. The critique still stands regardless of how many passengers there are and what type of transportation they're on. So your comment to me was obviously only made because you disapprove of me.

You've said to me in this thread that none of the photos I've posted are street and that you think the Alex Webb picture is a set up. Complete nonsense. You also said to BillN_33 that you love his second photo (fine by me, that's your personal choice) when two others and myself said that photo is lacking compared to his other very good photo.

Why are you even posting in a street discussion forum when A, you don't do street and B, you know absolutely nothing about it?
 
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Merlin5 said:
Are you trying to troll me mate? Looks that way. Seems you've decided you don't like me so you've made ignorant comments to me here.
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Just a gentle suggestion to calm down, maybe step away from the computer and watch the sun setting.

There has been some winding up in the thread, and some very divergent opinions. Take a breather and come back tomorrow with fresh emotions. :)
 
Merlin5 said:
Are you trying to troll me mate? Looks that way. Seems you've decided you don't like me so you've made ignorant comments to me here.
And I see you went into the street photos forum and posted a comment to me in Bill_N33s Tokyo thread about it not being a train and 3 passengers but it's in fact a water taxi and 5 passengers. Great, well done you. The more important point is that I complimented him on one of his photos and gave some critique on the second. The critique still stands regardless of how many passengers there are and what type of transportation they're on. So your comment to me was obviously only made because you disapprove of me.

You've said to me in this thread that none of the photos I've posted are street and that you think the Alex Webb picture is a set up. Complete nonsense. You also said to BillN_33 that you love his second photo (fine by me, that's your personal choice) when two others and myself said that photo is lacking compared to his other very good photo.

Why are you even posting in a street discussion forum when A, you don't do street and B you know absolutely nothing about it?
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Oh dear, where to start?
Ok. Regarding the water taxi. If you're going to critique, at least take a good look at it.
I never said they weren't street, I said they are not what I would class as street.
I didnt say the Webb photo was a setup, I said it looked posed, because it does.
Regarding Bills pic and me liking it and 2 not liking it, I didn't realise it was a vote.
Lastly, I post on many different live threads and will continue to do so.
I don't know, or care, who you are but you certainly have no idea of my background or understanding of street.
I'm not trolling you, but I do take an interest in photo snobs who think they are a cut above.
Enjoy your pontificating.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Just a gentle suggestion to calm down, maybe step away from the computer and watch the sun setting.

There has been some winding up in the thread, and some very divergent opinions. Take a breather and come back tomorrow with fresh emotions. :)
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Sorry, I bit and responded before I saw this.
 
sk66 said:
It's not really about what someone else may or may not get from the image;
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There we part company.

To me, all art is about communication and to mistreat an old saying: "the artist proposes but the audience disposes".
sk66 said:
... a lot of that is out of your control.
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That is exactly where I stand on the whole thing.
 
Sorry Toni, if it's ok I'm just posting this response to Cockney and I'm done for tonight. I think I've kept it civil. :)


Cockney said:
Oh dear, where to start?
Ok. Regarding the water taxi. If you're going to critique, at least take a good look at it.
I never said they weren't street, I said they are not what I would class as street.
I didnt say the Webb photo was a setup, I said it looked posed, because it does.
Regarding Bills pic and me liking it and 2 not liking it, I didn't realise it was a vote.
Lastly, I post on many different live threads and will continue to do so.
I don't know, or care, who you are but you certainly have no idea of my background or understanding of street.
I'm not trolling you, but I do take an interest in photo snobs who think they are a cut above.
Enjoy your pontificating.
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I took a good enough look at his picture to make points that didn't even occur to you. All you were concerned with was the pole not being straight and some details you picked me up on that don't affect my critique. You were being pedantic for the sake of it because you 'take an interest in photo snobs who think they are a cut above.' I've learned some things that I like to pass on, that's all. They're most certainly not always right of course but if trying to help others qualifies me as a photo snob, great! (y)

If they are not what you would class as street, then I'm sorry but you haven't looked at much street photography. The umbrella of street photography is varied.

Yes, the Webb photo does look like a set up. But it isn't. With your understanding of street, I'd have expected you might know about his work.

Great, keep posting in any thread that takes your fancy.

It's not a vote, no.

Ok, you say you have a background and understanding of street. Serious question then, which street photographers do you admire? Do you have any photos you can share of your own work? I'd be interested to see them. I'm not taking the mickey, I'm being genuine.

Pontificating: "to speak or write and give your opinion about something as if you knew everything about it and as if only your opinion was correct"

Nope, I most certainly don't know everything about the subject and have a lot more to learn. But this is a discussion forum where I thought people are allowed to voice strong opinions and it just so happens I strongly disagree with many points. I can't help that. I've also added to the conversation with some of the things I've learned through my own journey of street photography. If in your book that constitutes being a know it all, so be it. I don't post at TP that much these days to particularly care what someone like you thinks.
 
I just wonder what will happen to street images when Ai really takes off and starts to be easy to use by "normal" people - I notice that the Leica M11-P has something built into the software,(?) that proves it was taken by that camera or something similar - unsure of the exact details

The computer easily beats man at chess, will it now be extended to the creation of "street" images, or is it already happening
 
While the images will be good they will be generally worthless as theres no real world story - some areas like street or macro need to be captured in camera to have value.
Where it may get some use is in the removal of distraction, though how much of a change is it really from cloning or bringing in heads from multiple shots?

To give context, I do sometimes do AI art (fantasy/sci-fi), so I'm from the dark side of that debate.
 
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I do believe there will come a time when we'll be looking at AI images and won't be aware that they are AI. They may indeed be worthless as street photography because they're not real, but we won't know that. Same with art and music. In fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the elements of music we hear on the radio aren't already AI.
 
An aspect of this debate we need to consider is that, just like landscape, some people see beauty and some will wonder why anyone bothered to take the same picture again. This is quite separate from the 'every picture is valid ' argument, which is slightly spurious in the context of the thread.

Something else to consider is that the context in which we see a picture will affect how we view it. So if those pictures that some didn't see as street had been posted with a bunch of other street pics in Nat Geo then they might be viewed differently to just appearing on a forum in the heat of debate.
 
Derek, Certainly right for images - already impossible to tell - recently a photographer won 3rd place in an AI comp (to prove a point - not sure they did getting 3rd place but hey) and an AI image won something a year or so ago.
Moving images are getting close, light years away from only a few months ago - they will soon be hard to tell.
Music - check out Udio
 
Cockney said:
I think you're excused. :D To my mind theres a world of difference between creating fantasy and generating an image to present as real.
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I won't pretend I'm innocent in this - I don't sell, but do make wallpapers for my PC - its not as easy as the art community make out, but it is quicker and requires different skills.
 
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I think setting defined boundaries for genres in photography is a Very Bad Thing. Not least because photos can cross those boundaries or be repurposed to fit another genre. It can also get a bit elitist, very often in 'street photography' where there attitude does seem prevalent and being 'a street photographer' seems to be a badge of honour. I find this ironic seeing how egalitarian photography is. Anyone can take a photo. In fact, anyone can take a good photo. Even as good street photo.

The way I see it street photography is popular primarily because it overcomes one of the biggest problems of photography for amateurs - access to subject matter. All you have to do is walk out your front door and there is the subject all around you. And if you want to include people in your pictures you don't even have to interact with them - that can even be thought of as not being street by some. Great for introverts who might otherwise have to become landscape photographers - which would likely mean travelling andgetting up early in the morning.

Another bonus for a budding street photographer is that pretty much anything can be a subject for a photo. It doesn't have to be people. It can be random street furniture or junk. What's more the photos don't have to be very good, so long as they show something funny/interesting/unusual they can be poorly composed. If all else fails turn them into high contrast black and white and bingo - it's street!

Now before the purists shoot me down I'll just say that the book that really fired me up to take photos back in 1976 was The English by Ian Berry. High contrast, black and white shot using Leicas (one film of course). I wanted to take that kind of photo, and that's where I started out. I dropped out of 'serious' photography for almost 30 years and when I got back into it three of the first books I bought were The Last Resort by Martin Parr, Cardiff After Dark, and the Street Photography Now compilation. I've other books on similar lines and still enjoy looking at photos of 'life taking place' more than any others. But I look at all sorts of photography, including stuff I don't 'get', understand or like. Which maybe more people should do instead of staying within their bubble.

What I'd say about the first two of those books is that while the photos are pretty much 'street' they are not random sets of pictures. They are curated from larger bodies of work. More importantly they have something to say. They might be 'street' but they are also 'documentary'. Each one is also a pretty good standalone picture. That's the biggest difference to the random junk that most street photography is. It has no agenda, no story, no message. It's done to impress other 'street' photographers.

As @sk66 said earlier "If the photographer has no intent, then the images serves no purpose and there is no point to it."

Rant over! :D
 
Perhaps we need to remind ourselves that a camera, like a pen, is a tool,

What we do with those tools may be to create art or it may be something quite different, such as making a record of some event, big or small. I aim for the non-art end of that spectrum and others for the art end. Neither, I am quite sure, is more important than the other, nor less so.
 
Ed Sutton said:
What I'd say about the first two of those books is that while the photos are pretty much 'street' they are not random sets of pictures. They are curated from larger bodies of work. More importantly they have something to say. They might be 'street' but they are also 'documentary'. Each one is also a pretty good standalone picture. That's the biggest difference to the random junk that most street photography is. It has no agenda, no story, no message. It's done to impress other 'street' photographers.
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I now have this personal view that I see street photography as a technique as much as anything, it's just candid pictures in public. It's what you do with that technique/process that counts.. since getting into photobooks, I find myself less interested in the single picture as well..
 
Merlin5 said:
Admittedly not the best example I could have posted given that most of the people posting in this discussion don't even practise or care that much for street photography.
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I'm starting to think that may well be me at some level... see below.

Ed Sutton said:
SNIP some good stuff

The way I see it street photography is popular primarily because it overcomes one of the biggest problems of photography for amateurs - access to subject matter.
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I agree with much of what you wrote, but I'm coming at it slightly differently.

I think I'm still trying to find my place in photography and often it's easier to identify what I don't want to do rather than what I do. And the thing that I don't want to do above all else is take photographs someone else has already taken, and already taken better than I ever could.

I could take wildlife shots - I love wildlife photography and go to the WPotY exhibitions every year, but I know I just don't have the patience or commitment to do that. And although "Ndakasi's Passing" is right up there with my all time favourite photos it's a shot that starts to fall into my favourite area, which is the documentary shot. My favourite photographs tend to be by professional press photographers. Here's one that I think about almost every day: Assassination of Andrei Karlov. The photographer, Burhan Ozbilici, probably went out that day expecting to report on a council meeting, or something equivalent, and when the gunman stormed in and everyone else hit the deck he stayed calm and got the picture. I could talk about Robert Capa, or Don McCullin. Andre Kertsz is a particulate favourite of mine.

Of course, there's no way in the world I'm ever going to be in war zone or be a press photographer or anything close, but I do think there may be some sort of documentary ideas that I could explore (another favourite of mine is W Eugene Smith) and at the moment I think I'm more likely to find these on the street, in towns and cities, than anywhere else. So I go out on the street and I guess I'm searching for those moments that aren't the pure street photography of which I think we're debating, but the moments like Cartier-Bresson (mostly) captured (or, which are mostly published - he probably took tens of thousands other unpublished shots) which, to me, are something beyond the pure street shots that (again, I think) we're discussing here.

Bill's photo of the man with his head in the bags on the other thread is a great case in point. I love that. But as I stated previously, I think to get into double figures in a single year with photos of moments like that is really hard (unless you're in those parts of the world where stuff is really happening).

So, for me, the street is indeed the place where I can find shots no-one else has taken, but I'm yet to personally find what I'm looking for, and could be looking in the wrong place.

Derek
 
Ed Sutton said:
There's nothing like making life hard for yourself! :LOL:
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Hmmm, "The Masochistic Photographer".

Now there's a book title with potential... :coat:
 
Merlin5 said:
Sorry about that. How about this one?

www.artsy.net

Alex Webb | Tehuantepec, Mexico (1985) | Available for Sale | Artsy

Available for sale from Robert Klein Gallery, Alex Webb, Tehuantepec, Mexico (1985), Fuji Crystal Archive print, 40 × 50 in
www.artsy.net www.artsy.net

Rubbish isn't it. Just a bunch of people standing around.
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Yes, for me it doesn't say much... it's mostly just a bunch of people standing around.
If I try I can envision the spinning ball is a globe and impart some meaning to that and the other's relationship to "the spinning world"... but I'm really stretching.

The fact that he's a recognized artist and they are asking a lot of money for a print doesn't change anything IMO... a picture of a potato sold for $1M; that doesn't make it great art as far as I'm concerned.

I admitted way back that I don't necessarily get "art." And when it comes to "art" there really is no debate/argument, and there really cannot be any critique. My not liking it or not getting it is irrelevant. As is someone fawning over it seeing this or that meaning in it... That's irrelevant as well; because it's not (necessarily) what someone else will get/see, and it's not (necessarily) what the artist intended and meant to say/communicate.
 
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