I must experiment more !!

[Crotal Bell]

One of my weaknesses has always been getting set in my ways, now in some respects it's not always a bad thing, but I think with photography it can be.

Today I was taking pictures in Manual as usual, shooting a church. At this point I should mention that recently I was looking at some very good photos from an experienced togger and noticed the shutter speeds were considerably lower than I automatically drop to. Sometimes I get it right with trial and error, starting out with high ISO and lowering the SS to improve things.

Well today I did something I haven't done in ages - Aperture Priority. The camera dropped the SS to 1/125 and the ISO went to 200 and the image looked lovely. ( I may have got there in the end but not before wasting time and a number of poor shots) The camera is still a lot smarter than I am.

Later I decided to try the in-camera monochrome, and I really liked the results. First time !!

Why do I always think I need more SS than I do? I have great IBIS in the Panasonics and I know I can shoot really slow !
And why don't I poop it in Aperture Priority a bit more often?
Why haven't I played with the photo styles before?? Why don't I go out and experiment with my gear more and have fun??

Time to take a step back I think, slow down, think about things first, and generally try more features too !

 

[woof woof]

I use aperture priority until the shutter speed drops too low and then I switch to manual, all with auto ISO, I almost never use shutter priority because in all but low light the camera will probably select an aperture I wouldn't so I prefer manual when aperture priority isn't suitable any more. What shutter speed you need or can get away with will depend on the subject and if it'll move and introduce motion blur and how steadily you can hold the kit and focal length or rather subject magnification needs to be in the mix of things to think about too.

With my MFT kit with IBIS and/or lens IS I find that the camera often chooses too fast a shutter speed when I can manage with a much slower one as long as subject movement isn't a factor. I suppose what settings you can get away with and in what circumstances will only be learned with practice and repetition. If the point of all this is to keep the ISO down and the IQ up then I'm all for keeping the ISO down but if the ISO has to creep up I'd still take the picture. It might not be a world beater IQ wise but I do think a noisy picture is better than none

I don't usually bother with in camera modes as they're usually applied to jpegs and I use raw and occasionally use Nik filters for effects, or just my Adoby processing software.

 

[Plain Nev]

We've all been there, if that's any consolation? For many years I had a Canon compact, and it's only now, some considerable time later, that I've come back to it and started experimenting with the film sims and using it in semi auto, or even manual. All that time, I never knew. But then my requirements were different. And I wouldn't have considered myself a photographer particularly. It's my more recent experience with a proper mirrorless camera that's feeding back into it.

 

[Kevin Allan]

Or you could use a tripod and use the lowest ISO settings. Although a few cathedrals don’t allow tripods, it’s not usually a problem in a parish church.

I made a 15-minute exposure in a church recently, on paper negative rates at ISO 2.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Time to take a step back I think, slow down, think about things first, and generally try more features too !

I take the view that everyone has to find their own path, so if you feel that you should try new things, then I recommend going for it.

For myself, I seldom stray from full auto, on the basis that the camera generally knows best. Then, when I get the file into a computer, I archive the original and play with a copy to achieve what suits my taste best.

The first photographer I assisted gave me this advice: "Get the best, most neutral negative you can and make any changes in the print". That seems to work for digital too.

 

[droj]

Shutter Priority. The camera dropped the SS to 1/125

That doesn't make sense. In shutter priority, you decide the shutter speed. What am I missing?

 

[Crotal Bell]

That doesn't make sense. In shutter priority, you decide the shutter speed. What am I missing?

I apologise, that bit should have said Aperture Priority.

 

[Crotal Bell]

My apologies all. I accidentally suggested that I "tried shutter Priority" and that was wrong.
I usually shoot manual and often tend to go too high on shutter speeds at the start out.
Today I tried Aperture Priority for the first time in ages and it went down to SS1/125 ISO200 and a lovely image.
It taught me to use different settings and experiment more in general, and let it all help me learn.

I have corrected the original comment.

 

[Plain Nev]

I thought that was what you meant. I seem to remember when you first started posting here you were using some very high speeds and ISO settings. Well, now we've got to the bottom of it. The high ISO was giving you some grainy pictures.

 

[vintageman]

Aperture to control depth of field - Bokeh or deep
Shutter speed for movement - Yours or the subject
ISO - exposure or grain

Just pick the priority 2 from the 3 and adjust the third

 

[Crotal Bell]

I thought that was what you meant. I seem to remember when you first started posting here you were using some very high speeds and ISO settings. Well, now we've got to the bottom of it. The high ISO was giving you some grainy pictures.

Yes Nev, I think part of the problem is shooting so much wildlife and wanting to freeze movement, sometimes I forget that for other subjects I can come much further down than I sometimes do. But in general I just need to play around more. I get stuck in my ways too easily.

 

[Crotal Bell]

Aperture to control depth of field - Bokeh or deep
Shutter speed for movement - Yours or the subject
ISO - exposure or grain

Just pick the priority 2 from the 3 and adjust the third

As I said in the main comment, I need to experiment more in general and learn from the results.

 

[ancient_mariner]

As I said in the main comment, I need to experiment more in general and learn from the results.

And that's a good thing to do.

Can I encourage you to think about it in terms of what you want the picture to look like, rather than technically thinking in terms of shutter speeds and apertures and then seeing what you get? You already know the effects of apertures and shutter speeds on an image, plus the difference high and low ISO makes. So next time you look at a scene, consider what you want to produce from it and then adjust the camera to fit rather than just letting the camera make those choices for you - it might get them right, or it might not.

The first photographer I assisted gave me this advice: "Get the best, most neutral negative you can and make any changes in the print". That seems to work for digital too.

This is good advice too. Using in-camera effects is great to show you what might be possible, as long as you get a good raw file too, that you can use as a starting point for development.

 

[LeeRatters]

For me, since I decided ISO isn't too important anymore, hand held general shooting I'm usually just in Av mode with auto ISO and a minimum shutter speed set. This is around 1/125 (unless shooting street and then it's 1/500) and I control the one important thing which is aperture/dof.

I'll sometimes switch to manual for seascapes for example where I want a certain dof and a certain shutter speed. Same for more unusual shooting like night skies. I guess for panning I'd do the opposite and shoot in shutter priority because.... the shutter speed is the priority

For myself, I seldom stray from full auto, on the basis that the camera generally knows best.

No it doesn't.

 

[Crotal Bell]

And that's a good thing to do.

Can I encourage you to think about it in terms of what you want the picture to look like, rather than technically thinking in terms of shutter speeds and apertures and then seeing what you get? You already know the effects of apertures and shutter speeds on an image, plus the difference high and low ISO makes. So next time you look at a scene, consider what you want to produce from it and then adjust the camera to fit rather than just letting the camera make those choices for you - it might get them right, or it might not.


This is good advice too. Using in-camera effects is great to show you what might be possible, as long as you get a good raw file too, that you can use as a starting point for development.

You’re hitting the nail on the head here Toni.

When I'm outdoors I usually like to try and make my pictures look as much like what my eye sees as possible, I like to capture scenes and objects the way they really are at the time. All too often I'll take two or three attempts to get something close. If I had stood back and thought about it a bit more I probably could have got it right first time.

I'm not suggesting aperture priority will always get it right, but yesterday it immediately slapped me across the wrist and made it obvious what things I was doing wrong in manual, most obviously using far too fast shutter speed for the light conditions on subject at the time.

And then there's the other side of the coin, playing around with things in the camera and getting back to having some fun, and learning a few things along the way.

 

[Crotal Bell]

For me, since I decided ISO isn't too important anymore, hand held general shooting I'm usually just in Av mode with auto ISO and a minimum shutter speed set. This is around 1/125 (unless shooting street and then it's 1/500) and I control the one important thing which is aperture/dof.

I'll sometimes switch to manual for seascapes for example where I want a certain dof and a certain shutter speed. Same for more unusual shooting like night skies. I guess for panning I'd do the opposite and shoot in shutter priority because.... the shutter speed is the priority



No it doesn't.

Thanks Lee some good food for thought there

 

[ancient_mariner]

I'm not suggesting aperture priority will always get it right, but yesterday it immediately slapped me across the wrist and made it obvious what things I was doing wrong in manual, most obviously using far too fast shutter speed for the light conditions on subject at the time.

I tend to use aperture priority much of the time because, all things being equal, aperture controls the appearance of the image when subjects are stationary. My camera shows me what the exposure will be like, and I usually point the metering are at a suitable part of the frame until I get the appearance I want, then lock that in. However if I have to shoot things moving rapidly against a changing background then manual exposure is preferable, using suitable shutter speed, aperture and ISO. Auto is fine, but it can't always provide that neutral negative as a startingpoint that AF described, assuming you're happy to tune the image yourself afterwards.

Worth remembering too that over-exposure means your photo will have parts that are un-recoverable, which is the opposite of film. With modern kit it's better to go a little under and pull up a couple of stops than the other way round.

All these things are tools, and you can use them creatively or they can determine what you do.

 

[sk66]

So next time you look at a scene, consider what you want to produce from it and then adjust the camera to fit rather than just letting the camera make those choices for you

IMO, this is probably the best advice here... make images; don't just take them.

 

[benc98]

A fun experiment that I did a little while ago was to revisit the same scene but use different parameters that you stick by. In my example, the scene was my morning walk and then each morning I stuck to a series of rules and they were different each time. It was a fun to get some photos that you wouldn't otherwise think of.

e.g. some mornings it was hip shooting with fixed focus, mono only and a fixed slow shutter speed
then it was only portrait orientation only with critical focus, in colour
then it was mono only and the view point is anything but eye level

you can literally make anything up. It's crazy how doing this on the same route/place creates vastly different photos.. and any one of these might spark a project or idea

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

IMO, this is probably the best advice here... make images; don't just take them.

An alternative opinion, to which I subscribe, is to record the picture that best captures what you find interesting in the subject.

Neither approach is better than the other, and there may be yet more ways for a photographer to achieve their intention.

 

[sk66]

An alternative opinion, to which I subscribe, is to record the picture that best captures what you find interesting in the subject.

Neither approach is better than the other, and there may be yet more ways for a photographer to achieve their intention.

If you are thinking about what specifically it is that you find interesting, and how best to capture/convey that, then it's not contrary..

 

[Crotal Bell]

A fun experiment that I did a little while ago was to revisit the same scene but use different parameters that you stick by. In my example, the scene was my morning walk and then each morning I stuck to a series of rules and they were different each time. It was a fun to get some photos that you wouldn't otherwise think of.

e.g. some mornings it was hip shooting with fixed focus, mono only and a fixed slow shutter speed
then it was only portrait orientation only with critical focus, in colour
then it was mono only and the view point is anything but eye level

you can literally make anything up. It's crazy how doing this on the same route/place creates vastly different photos.. and any one of these might spark a project or idea

I like that, ties in nicely with my thoughts on experimentation.

 

[Crotal Bell]

IMO, this is probably the best advice here... make images; don't just take them.

Yes indeed, and in my case it's usually trying to recreate exactly what my eye can see, but being set in my ways has meant a few bad shots and then changing because I have to. Too often I let shutter speeds lead. It's been so long since I used aperture priority that I can probably call that an experiment yesterday, and that's not right.

I can see why you quoted the line from Toni, it's spot on. I need to consider more parameters before pressing the shutter and learn to get things right, not shoot several efforts that are way off the mark first then use the delete button. Too much trial and error and not enough thinking and learning - for those days when I only have time for one shot !

 

[ah5168]

One of my weaknesses has always been getting set in my ways, now in some respects it's not always a bad thing, but I think with photography it can be.

Today I was taking pictures in Manual as usual, shooting a church. At this point I should mention that recently I was looking at some very good photos from an experienced togger and noticed the shutter speeds were considerably lower than I automatically drop to. Sometimes I get it right with trial and error, starting out with high ISO and lowering the SS to improve things.

Well today I did something I haven't done in ages - Aperture Priority. The camera dropped the SS to 1/125 and the ISO went to 200 and the image looked lovely. ( I may have got there in the end but not before wasting time and a number of poor shots) The camera is still a lot smarter than I am.

Later I decided to try the in-camera monochrome, and I really liked the results. First time !!

Why do I always think I need more SS than I do? I have great IBIS in the Panasonics and I know I can shoot really slow !
And why don't I poop it in Aperture Priority a bit more often?
Why haven't I played with the photo styles before?? Why don't I go out and experiment with my gear more and have fun??

Time to take a step back I think, slow down, think about things first, and generally try more features too !

I think it's good practice to always push yourself and come back with a few images taken outside of you comfort zone, sometimes they work sometimes they don't but you can then explore your limits and find out what skills you need to develop.

As I don't really photograph things that move I use a tripod for the majority of my work. A tripod frees you from shutter speed worries and allows you to get the exposure you want at your base ISO. Don't forget that your best dynamic range will be at base ISO. The other benefit of a tripod is that it allows you to be very critical about composition and framing, as your viewpoint is fixed you can spend as much time as you need on you composition, focus, depth of field etc.

Andrew HATFIELD | Architectural and Interior Photographer

 

[Crotal Bell]

I think it's good practice to always push yourself and come back with a few images taken outside of you comfort zone, sometimes they work sometimes they don't but you can then explore your limits and find out what skills you need to develop.

As I don't really photograph things that move I use a tripod for the majority of my work. A tripod frees you from shutter speed worries and allows you to get the exposure you want at your base ISO. Don't forget that your best dynamic range will be at base ISO. The other benefit of a tripod is that it allows you to be very critical about composition and framing, as your viewpoint is fixed you can spend as much time as you need on you composition, focus, depth of field etc.

Andrew HATFIELD | Architectural and Interior Photographer

Thanks Andrew, much appreciated.