Legalities of selling photos at public events?

[snerkler]

I went to the Chatsworth Classic and Performance Motor Show yesterday and whilst I was there I was approached by a gentleman who gave me a flyer for his website "www.mysupercarphoto.com" where you can upload photos of cars and the owners can search and buy photos of their cars if they wish.

A quick google suggests this is fine, however most of the info related to the US and I was wondering if it's the same in the UK as, according to this info I found it's also fair game to sell photos taken at other public events such as motor racing at Leguna Seca however I know in the UK at least it's not OK to sell photos from race tracks unless you have media accreditation.

Does anyone know definitively if it's OK to sell photos taken at UK events like the Chatsworth show please?

Edit: I'm not looking at selling on that site, but am just curious for future reference

 

[Faldrax]

I went to the Chatsworth Classic and Performance Motor Show yesterday and whilst I was there I was approached by a gentleman who gave me a flyer for his website "www.mysupercarphoto.com" where you can upload photos of cars and the owners can search and buy photos of their cars if they wish.

A quick google suggests this is fine, however most of the info related to the US and I was wondering if it's the same in the UK as, according to this info I found it's also fair game to sell photos taken at other public events such as motor racing at Leguna Seca however I know in the UK at least it's not OK to sell photos from race tracks unless you have media accreditation.

Does anyone know definitively if it's OK to sell photos taken at UK events like the Chatsworth show please?

My understanding is that it will depend on the terms of entry to the relevant events.
The starting position is that you can take photos, and do what you want with them - but terms of entry may restrict this, so you need to check with each individual venue.

 

[Pound Coin]

On their website,

The venue or Great British Motor Shows will have rights to refuse admission or eject you in certain circumstances and these are likely to include if you are involved with abusive, threatening, drunken or other anti-social behaviour, or carry offensive weapons or illegal or prohibited substances or make unauthorised audio, video or photographic recordings other taking images of vehicles at the show for personal use and enjoyment.

I imagine there is the word “than” missing between ‘other’ and ‘taking’

 

[welshwizard645]

My take on this:

the t&c's might be somewhat out of date - how many people share images taken at events? Photos I take of people's cars at events such as Goodwood get loaded on Flickr and Facebook (usually the Goodwood group pages)....not exactly personal use and enjoyment.

Given that so many people share their images online, and if anyone liked my photograph of their car so much I'd just say download the image off Flickr if they want to make a 6x4" print. I wouln't want to go through a 3rd party - how much would they charge for the print, and how much would you get? Bargepole springs to mind.

 

[andrewc]

I went to the Chatsworth Classic and Performance Motor Show yesterday and whilst I was there I was approached by a gentleman who gave me a flyer for his website "www.mysupercarphoto.com" where you can upload photos of cars and the owners can search and buy photos of their cars if they wish.

A quick google suggests this is fine, however most of the info related to the US and I was wondering if it's the same in the UK as, according to this info I found it's also fair game to sell photos taken at other public events such as motor racing at Leguna Seca however I know in the UK at least it's not OK to sell photos from race tracks unless you have media accreditation.

Does anyone know definitively if it's OK to sell photos taken at UK events like the Chatsworth show please?

Strictly speaking media accreditation permits you to take photographs for the publication that you are working for - not for selling photos to all and sundry.

 

[Pound Coin]

Having a look round that website throws up some issues. Like the misspelling of the web company in the footer, or the mislabelling of this car https://mysupercarphoto.com/downloads/ferrari/ (which I got to by putting "UK" into the location search box - it was the only result)

The site could be new but the domain was registered a year ago.

 

[snerkler]

On their website,



I imagine there is the word “than” missing between ‘other’ and ‘taking’

Thanks, I couldn't find the relevant t's and c's earlier, found out the link I needed to click was covered by a cookies window

My take on this:

the t&c's might be somewhat out of date - how many people share images taken at events? Photos I take of people's cars at events such as Goodwood get loaded on Flickr and Facebook (usually the Goodwood group pages)....not exactly personal use and enjoyment.

Given that so many people share their images online, and if anyone liked my photograph of their car so much I'd just say download the image off Flickr if they want to make a 6x4" print. I wouln't want to go through a 3rd party - how much would they charge for the print, and how much would you get? Bargepole springs to mind.

I think there's a difference between posting photos online and making a profit from them. I know when I tried to upload photos to shutterstock from racing events they were rejected, which is when I first found out that you can't sell images from such events. Public car shows on the other hand I don't know, I mean is it illegal to photograph a car in a public car park and sell it? It's a bit of a grey area

Having a look round that website throws up some issues. Like the misspelling of the web company in the footer, or the mislabelling of this car https://mysupercarphoto.com/downloads/ferrari/ (which I got to by putting "UK" into the location search box - it was the only result)

The site could be new but the domain was registered a year ago.

Yeah I noticed a lot wrong with the site and I wasn't seriously considering selling on there, it just brought up the issue whether it's fine to do so

 

[welshwizard645]

very grey Toby, I would say. I would imagine anything taken in a public place is fair game.

But as you mentioned racing events that where another dimension has to be considered. Having had a very interesting presentation at our camera club a few years ago, and one of the themes was selling images of racing cars the moment any form of branding appears (either on hoardings on the side of the track or on the car itself (maybe evening the coveralls and helment of the driver) things become rather complicated - and I think that's why Shutterstock might have rejected your image/s. On the other hand if you take other images, maybe a nice Ferrari 256 on the concourse, and maybe a stately House in the background, with no branding visible, etc then that should present no problem (but I imagine a harder sell as there will probably be a lot of other images of said car for sale...).

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Does anyone know definitively if it's OK to sell photos taken at UK events like the Chatsworth show please?

I wonder if anyone, other than a barrister specialising in contract law, could answer that question.

I suspect it would come down to whether the images appeared in a publication or on a site that was worth attempting to sue.

 

[Faldrax]

Thanks, I couldn't find the relevant t's and c's earlier, found out the link I needed to click was covered by a cookies window

I think there's a difference between posting photos online and making a profit from them. I know when I tried to upload photos to shutterstock from racing events they were rejected, which is when I first found out that you can't sell images from such events. Public car shows on the other hand I don't know, I mean is it illegal to photograph a car in a public car park and sell it? It's a bit of a grey area

Yeah I noticed a lot wrong with the site and I wasn't seriously considering selling on there, it just brought up the issue whether it's fine to do so

There is a big difference between selling photos yourself, and selling to a site like shutterstock - the latter will have all sorts of internal rules designed to protect them from possible litigation - so avoiding images with branding on them or requiring model releases, for example. Just because such a site won't buy your images doesn't mean it is neccisarily illegal to sell them yourself.

 

[Phil V]

I know when I tried to upload photos to shutterstock from racing events they were rejected, which is when I first found out that you can't sell images from such events.

Shutterstock’s rejection doesn’t infer the law. Just that Shutterstock rightly erred on the side of caution.

In the same vein they wouldn’t accept images of people without a signed release. And there’s no concept of a ‘model release’ in British law.

 

[Phil V]

I wonder if anyone, other than a barrister specialising in contract law, could answer that question.

If you want a qualified ‘legal opinion’ you can ask a lawyer. If you want to test that ‘opinion’ you’ll need to go to court. But that doesn’t equate to ‘only a lawyer’ or ‘only a court’.

If you just want ‘an opinion’ you can generally rely on someone who works in that particular field.

I’ve got a fairly good grasp of copyright law having worked as a pro photographer this century. I’ve also got a fair grasp of the data protection and freedom of information law from the day job. With a working knowledge of the parts of some major contracts that cover my area of expertise at work.

And most people who’ve commented here have given the generally accepted answer that in the U.K. the start point is you can photograph anything you like and sell it to anyone. The lines then get drawn on whether the subject of the image is in breach of a criminal law, or whether there’s a restriction on images and their use in civil law, ie a right to privacy or as in this case; a breach of the rules of entry to an event.

 

[snerkler]

If you want a qualified ‘legal opinion’ you can ask a lawyer. If you want to test that ‘opinion’ you’ll need to go to court. But that doesn’t equate to ‘only a lawyer’ or ‘only a court’.

If you just want ‘an opinion’ you can generally rely on someone who works in that particular field.

I’ve got a fairly good grasp of copyright law having worked as a pro photographer this century. I’ve also got a fair grasp of the data protection and freedom of information law from the day job. With a working knowledge of the parts of some major contracts that cover my area of expertise at work.

And most people who’ve commented here have given the generally accepted answer that in the U.K. the start point is you can photograph anything you like and sell it to anyone. The lines then get drawn on whether the subject of the image is in breach of a criminal law, or whether there’s a restriction on images and their use in civil law, ie a right to privacy or as in this case; a breach of the rules of entry to an event.

Interesting, thanks (and to all the answers above). I do wonder how well an event's t'c and c's would stand up in a court of law, i.e. whether just saying that any photos taken are for personal use only is legally binding.

It's not something I plan on testing, not currently anyway, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[ecoleman]

Interesting, thanks (and to all the answers above). I do wonder how well an event's t'c and c's would stand up in a court of law, i.e. whether just saying that any photos taken are for personal use only is legally binding.

It's not something I plan on testing, not currently anyway, but interesting nonetheless.

If the event is on private property then the T&C's will stand up in court.

It's private property and you have been allowed access provided you agree to the T&C's.

 

[Phil V]

If the event is on private property then the T&C's will stand up in court.

It's private property and you have been allowed access provided you agree to the T&C's.

@snerkler
This
As you purchase your ticket, you agree to the T’s & C’s.
If you break them you’re clearly in breach of that contract. It’s not a grey area; it’s dead straightforward.