Metering for Motorsports....

[Matt84]

Hi everyone,

As you know from the Introduction threads I am new to photography and have only been doing it a few months, teaching myself different aspects as I go along. Today I have a question....

Tomorrow morning at around half 10 I plan on going to a Motorsport rally in a forest approx an hour away from me. I will be looking to take shots at approx 1/250 to show the car in focus but with blur in the tires, I will also be spending alot of time panning, approx 1/80, as this is the technique I like best ( even though its hard to master lol)

I was just wondering, confused, what metering should I use for this type of event? I usually use Evaluative, but as I got reading about them I think with the green grass, the dark tarmac, the dark tress, the cloudy sky, the colours on the cars then it might confuse the camera? Or if I am panning and taking action shots I would probably have the car in the centre 90% of the time so should I use Centre Weight, as long as the car is exposed properly who cares about the background?

Any feedback would be nice, as this topic is quite tricky, even any tips on how to meter the camera properly before the event. As previous car events I have had a bright background but the car itself was slightly dark.

 

[sambloxxy]

Your metering should be dictated by how large you will place the car in the frame. If you have the car 80%+ filling the frame, then evaluative should give correct exposure. If its small in the frame with a dark or light backdrop it may not.

The best way to ensure correct exposure would be to manually set all controls - then you can tweak your aperture or iso to keep a shutter speed you want, and expose for the car in the frame. However you have to pay close attention to your exposure, especially when you go from one composition to another.

If you stick to a semi auto mode, using any metering, you can always use exposure correction (scroll wheel on a canon) to dial the exposure for the car, but again remember to keep checking your shots for exposure.

For my motorsport photography I use evaluative metering, as I find it gives the most consistent results in a semi-auto mode. Spot metering can jump exposures about a bit, and in a semi-auto mode your camera may change things that spoil the way you want a shot to look.

 

[Gary]

just use centre weighted.. the only thing thats significantly going to mess up your exposure are headlights. In which case, just alter your exposure bias accordingly.

 

[Matt84]

Cheers for the replies, I guess I will have a go at both of them and see what the results are by looking at the histogram? I'm trying to shoot in manual as much as I can but as its mostly new to me I might stick to Tv mode, as it's handier for panning.

I think most of the frame will be of the rally car itself, although if i get a good spot where the dirt is being torn up by the wheels then I might try and capture this with a bit of the background.

And as far as I know the Rally is 11-5 so I wont need to worry about the headlights (phew!)

 

[Gary]

tbh, if you are new to photography (and even if you arent) i think you are unnecessarily running before you can walk.
in my experience, there is rarely any need for manual mode unless the circumstances are extreme. You paid a lot of the camera so let it do some of the work

normally i set camera to tv or av mode depending on the shot i'm taking, i adjust to the lowest ISO that still gives me the aperture / shutter speed I want, WB on Auto, Exposure on centre weighted, AI servo focus, Continuous shooting enabled, and away we go!

i get to know just by looking at the scene whether the camera might bugger up the exposure calculation, so i adjust the bias accordingly. Or sometimes switch to manual mode, but thats only when I'm trying to produce something a bit mental.

 

[Matt84]

tbh, if you are new to photography (and even if you arent) i think you are unnecessarily running before you can walk.
in my experience, there is rarely any need for manual mode unless the circumstances are extreme. You paid a lot of the camera so let it do some of the work

normally i set camera to tv or av mode depending on the shot i'm taking, i adjust to the lowest ISO that still gives me the aperture / shutter speed I want, WB on Auto, Exposure on centre weighted, AI servo focus, Continuous shooting enabled, and away we go!

i get to know just by looking at the scene whether the camera might bugger up the exposure calculation, so i adjust the bias accordingly. Or sometimes switch to manual mode, but thats only when I'm trying to produce something a bit mental.

Nice one, I just hear people all the time saying go manual go manual!! Felt like a cheat if I was using the Av/Tv etc. Yeah im new, only been doing it a few months, I've taught myself the exposure triangle and what all the modes to etc, just ran into metering and thought it was quite tricky. I was at a car sprint a few weeks back and alot of my shots had bright background ( thats where the sun was) but the car, although was fully in focus, it was quite dark. I was probably using Evaluative at that stage, but because I didnt know much about it i just kinda left it like that. If I used centre, would it have made a difference?

 

[sambloxxy]

When you're shooting into the sun, the contrast between light and dark is massive, so usually you'll end up with light back and dark subject, but exposure correction can help.

Whatever metering and camera mode you prefer, just stick to it and get know it as well as possible. What you dont want to be doing is missing shots because your looking at dials, which im sure we've all done!

The more you use your camera (for any type of photography) the easier you'll find it to change settings quickly, to what you need for what you want to achieve

 

[Matt84]

When you're shooting into the sun, the contrast between light and dark is massive, so usually you'll end up with light back and dark subject, but exposure correction can help.

Whatever metering and camera mode you prefer, just stick to it and get know it as well as possible. What you dont want to be doing is missing shots because your looking at dials, which im sure we've all done!

The more you use your camera (for any type of photography) the easier you'll find it to change settings quickly, to what you need for what you want to achieve

Yeah thats exactly what I have done I have spent more time looking at the camera instead of the cars!! So if my subect is dark and the background is light, and i have say, Centre Weight, can I add more light to the subject without blowing out the background, or will it add light to the background as well?

 

[Phil V]

The thing about rallying is that you're not going to be able to check your histogram and compensate. You might have a dark car, followed by a light car, followed by a car with lights on. The cars are a minute apart and no chance of a re-shoot. you have to nail it.

I'm a 90% AV shooter, But depending on the light, my rally photography is 50% TV and 50% Manual - more likely to be Manual if there's a chance cars will appear with lights on (mornings and late afternoons at this time of year).

 

[Matt84]

The thing about rallying is that you're not going to be able to check your histogram and compensate. You might have a dark car, followed by a light car, followed by a car with lights on. The cars are a minute apart and no chance of a re-shoot. you have to nail it.

I'm a 90% AV shooter, But depending on the light, my rally photography is 50% TV and 50% Manual - more likely to be Manual if there's a chance cars will appear with lights on (mornings and late afternoons at this time of year).

I usually use Tv for rally because I can sample the different shutter speeds when trying out panning and letting the camera worry about the rest. So, I take it it just depends on the light that particular day? Is there any tips such as if your subject is backlight use this metering, or if your subject is ....use this metering? Or do i just keep the light meter in the viewfinder in the middle and go from there?

 

[Mikesphotaes]

Gary has given you excellent advice.

 

[Matt84]

Gary has given you excellent advice.

Yeah he has, and I will be using the settings he has said. Just like to ask a few questions to get the most info i can to take with me.

e.g. when Gary says " I get to know just by looking at the scene whether the camera might bugger up the exposure calculation" as I complete beginner, what kind of things does he look for? Is it shadows, highlights etc?

 

[Gary]

Yeah he has, and I will be using the settings he has said. Just like to ask a few questions to get the most info i can to take with me.

e.g. when Gary says " I get to know just by looking at the scene whether the camera might bugger up the exposure calculation" as I complete beginner, what kind of things does he look for? Is it shadows, highlights etc?

from the sounds of it you have already got a good idea...

but a couple of examples:

1) huge amount of sky, so the camera wont expose the part with the car correctly because it exposing for the sky, so add a little more exposure (or just cheat and bring out the shadows in photoshop

2) a white car, headlights and lots of snow, so over expose it slightly so the dark bits arent too dark

3) underexposed a little so as to keep the features of the bright bit, and to make a silhouette

 

[Matt84]

from the sounds of it you have already got a good idea...

but a couple of examples:

1) huge amount of sky, so the camera wont expose the part with the car correctly because it exposing for the sky, so add a little more exposure (or just cheat and bring out the shadows in photoshop

2) a white car, headlights and lots of snow, so over expose it slightly so the dark bits arent too dark

3) underexposed a little so as to keep the features of the bright bit, and to make a silhouette

GREAT EXAMPLES!! So if its really bright the camera will underexpose, so its up to me to add expose, and if its really dark the camera will overexpose so its up to me to subtract the exposure.

So if the backdrop of the rally tomorrow is mostly sky I will have to add some exposure, and if its surrounded by say, dark/dull trees i may have to underexpose to balance it out. I will take a few random snaps of the scene and see what the histogram reads. Hope I have worded that correctly lol, sorry for all the questions, just wanna gather as much info as I can.

 

[Gary]

GREAT EXAMPLES!! So if its really bright the camera will underexpose, so its up to me to add expose, and if its really dark the camera will overexpose so its up to me to subtract the exposure.

So if the backdrop of the rally tomorrow is mostly sky I will have to add some exposure, and if its surrounded by say, dark/dull trees i may have to underexpose to balance it out. I will take a few random snaps of the scene and see what the histogram reads. Hope I have worded that correctly lol, sorry for all the questions, just wanna gather as much info as I can.

it depends what you want to show in the image.. if its the car then compensate for the sky by overexposing a little.
if its the sky you want to show, then dont over expose so much.

or just shoot RAW and fix it later

 

[Matt84]

it depends what you want to show in the image.. if its the car then compensate for the sky by overexposing a little.
if its the sky you want to show, then dont over expose so much.

or just shoot RAW and fix it later

Yeah I want the car to be as perfect as it can in each photo, had some great ones from the last event I was at, with car's on an apex with 2 wheels in the air, but they car itself was just too dark, was really disappointing. Yeah I have set for RAW.

Not many rally events around where I live, so I guess I just have to try and get to as many as I can and keep practicing!!

 

[Phil V]

Gary has given you excellent advice.

For track racing. Where it's fairly predictable and you can gradually hone your settings.

When you're on the exit of a bend where rally cars are emerging from the forest, you have no idea until they appear in the viewfinder whether they'll have chosen to put their lights on. This would catch out any photographer shooting in an auto mode.

I'm far from an M zealot, you can read many of my posts as a wedding shooter, I'll stick with AV when many would have gone Manual - but when out on a rally in tricky conditions (low light) I'll go Manual simply because I've no idea whether the next car will be white, black or red, or whether it'll have it's lights on. If the car is large in the frame, I'll get wildly different results in TV. Particularly as the lights shine straight into the lens, completely underexposing the shot.

 

[Phil V]

from the sounds of it you have already got a good idea...

but a couple of examples:

1) huge amount of sky, so the camera wont expose the part with the car correctly because it exposing for the sky, so add a little more exposure (or just cheat and bring out the shadows in photoshop

2) a white car, headlights and lots of snow, so over expose it slightly so the dark bits arent too dark

3) underexposed a little so as to keep the features of the bright bit, and to make a silhouette

Awesome examples of Motorsport photography.

I sincerely love them, but they don't compare with the conditions the OP will find in an Autumn forest, with only one chance at each car.

 

[dunganick]

I fail to see the difference between Rallying and Track images. The light changes just as much. You have cars with and without headlights. We (track photographers) even have cars in various colours! I might even argue that we actually have to shoot different angles with less warning to catch accidents. Some circuits even have trees and mud.

Rally togs might only have one chance at every car, but equally you don't have x number of cars/clients to catch in the space of 15 seconds as the pack goes past. Granted they will more than likely come back past again - but that doesn't mean i spend 20 laps trying to nail my exposure - i nail it first time and move onto another angle. Otherwise i would produce 20 identical images (and shortly afterwards have no customers). You might also have say two clients within a few seconds of each other, one might have lights on, one might not. We have our own challenges (not that this has ever been a big deal)

I find it is pretty easy to exposure lock off grass or tarmac and use av/tv a few seconds before a car comes past and that seems to do the job 90% of the time.

I really don't buy into the whole difference between Rally and Track, it's just photography at the end of the day.

 

[Phil V]

I fail to see the difference between Rallying and Track images. The light changes just as much. You have cars with and without headlights. We (track photographers) even have cars in various colours! I might even argue that we actually have to shoot different angles with less warning to catch accidents. Some circuits even have trees and mud.

Rally togs might only have one chance at every car, but equally you don't have x number of cars/clients to catch in the space of 15 seconds as the pack goes past. Granted they will more than likely come back past again - but that doesn't mean i spend 20 laps trying to nail my exposure - i nail it first time and move onto another angle. Otherwise i would produce 20 identical images (and shortly afterwards have no customers). You might also have say two clients within a few seconds of each other, one might have lights on, one might not. We have our own challenges (not that this has ever been a big deal)

I find it is pretty easy to exposure lock off grass or tarmac and use av/tv a few seconds before a car comes past and that seems to do the job 90% of the time.

I really don't buy into the whole difference between Rally and Track, it's just photography at the end of the day.

It wasn't meant as a sleight, no need for a hissy fit!
The point I was making was that they'll appear out of a forest into your viewfinder, and that the nature of the light and car lights makes the meter reading vary wildly. If I was at a track and there was a mix of cars with and without lights on, I'd shoot M too I have a mistrust of a locked exposure holding as long as I need - It's my usual shooting method for everything but rallying.

If you look at the explanations of the metering on Gary's excellent images, you can see that it's a mile away from the amount of decision making time you'll get on a forest stage. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm trying to give sensible stage-side advice, as opposed to trackside - and there is a subtle difference in the conditions, and in the aims.

 

[dunganick]

Phil please don't read the above as a hissy fit. It is certainly not intended as such

Nevertheless i still don't buy into the difference.

Personally i feel that for someone new to photography they are best off using AV or TV and if required exposure lock. Rather than trying to balance a fully manual setup. There is more room for error in getting a manual exposure wrong or knocking a setting. And as you say - that's your opportunity for the stage gone.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Hopefully some shots he is pleased with!

 

[Matt84]

Haven't forgot about this thread lol, I will go through the photo's tomorrow when i get the time, you can cast your professional eye over them and shout at me lol. They are by no means great but as I said I'm only a beginner lol

 

[Matt84]

Hi, thanks for the reply, here are a few from today and from my 1st event, personally I think they are quite bland, so I will welcome any harsh criticism as its the best way to learn, I have only been doing it a few months so I guess I can only get better lol.

Today's rally was my first, wasn't much room to pan as I was right beside the track and couldn't stand back as it was all trees, i few shots have been taken through the tree's as an experiment.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77886127@N04/

 

[Gary]

i was about to say that the main difference between rallying and circuit racing is that you need a wooly hat for rallying.. then i remembered i'm shooting the donington night race next weekend!! brrrrrrr

 

[Phil V]

i was about to say that the main difference between rallying and circuit racing is that you need a wooly hat for rallying.. then i remembered i'm shooting the donington night race next weekend!! brrrrrrr

Proper bobble hats though?