Polaroid SX-70: Can you attach lenses?

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redrose_45

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TLDR - I own a Polaroid SX-70 and I want to be able to attach lenses to it, how would I do that?

Brief info on the camera:

A quick expert from a wiki page - “The SX-70 has a folding body design, a 4-element 116mm f/8 glass lens, and an automatic exposure system. The camera allows manual focus as close as 26.4cm (10.4"), and has a shutter speed range from 1/175s to more than 10 seconds.”. But apparently at different focus levels the aperture changes to: - f8 at infinity - f11 at 2 meters - f16 between 1 and 0.6 meter - f22 between 0.6 and 0.4 meter (at 0.5 I guess) - f32 between 0.4 and 0.3 meter

My idea and question:

There is a guy who makes a frame for the front of the SX-70 that allows you to attach whatever you can find with a 37mm screw mount and I would really like to attach some vintage as well as modern lenses.

https://imgur.com/a/VCPnZUm
  • Is this even possible with how the physics of the integral lens and lens i want to attach (70-200mm for example)?
  • The camera’s lens points downwards when the body is flat (red lines depict approximate direction of lens) - and if I’d straight up attach a lens, it would not fit as the film door will be in the way. Is there some sort of adapter that I could use to literally extend the distance between the 37mm screw mount to get in front of the film door without affecting the image? I know there are telephoto adapters but I’m not sure if that’s really appropriate?
    https://imgur.com/a/cTDk4X6
  • Some lenses have their own focusing and zoom abilities. How would this work with the integral lenses and focusing ability? What’re the physics and what’d I need to keep in mind?
  • Since the integral lens is capped at f8. Is there a “point” in using a lens with a lower aperture? How would that affect the image?
I’d appreciate any help with this and thanks for reading!
 
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I would suggest changing the title from SLR to Polaroid to get the right eyes on this and (if you feel it's appropriate) moving it to the Film & Conventional section.
If you want to move it, I think the quickest way would be to report your own post (bottom left) and just ask for it to be moved.

Welcome to TP! Sorry I can't help with your question...
 
Hi and welcome to TP

Have you tried asking the person you mention who has designed a frame for the SX70...... afteral if he has designed it I surmise he has some/all answers as to the lenses that will 'work'?

As you have pointed out the construction of the camera does not lend itself to such lens attachments. Your thought about using an adaptor to push the lens further out would in effect be creating an extension tube. Such tubes exist and their usage is aimed at macro photography.

Did Polaroid ever make "convertor lenses" for the SX70 ???
 
Box Brownie said:
Hi and welcome to TP

Have you tried asking the person you mention who has designed a frame for the SX70...... afteral if he has designed it I surmise he has some/all answers as to the lenses that will 'work'?

As you have pointed out the construction of the camera does not lend itself to such lens attachments. Your thought about using an adaptor to push the lens further out would in effect be creating an extension tube. Such tubes exist and their usage is aimed at macro photography.

Did Polaroid ever make "convertor lenses" for the SX70 ???
Click to expand...

They guy who made it hasn't went that far and has only attached a 2x magnification lens, a wide angle lens and filters. He's a great guy but he's just doing this to mess around so doesn't have the answers to my questions.

I will have a look into an extension tube, thank you. I'm very new to photography so I lack a lot of knowledge with what's available and terminology.

Polaroid made their own adapter that stuck onto the face (similar to the design I showed a photo of above) with a "telephoto lens" which was a 1.5x magnification but I want to take it further. I want to use interesting lenses that give bokeh effects, i'd like to use 200+mm telephotos etc. And really push the limits of what the camera could do.

My main issue is that I'm not knowledgeable on the physics of how it would function, if at all, having the integral lens with another lens in front of it.
 
I did find this......

mint-camera.com

Vintage Polaroid Cameras + New Instant Cameras | MiNT Official Site

website
mint-camera.com mint-camera.com


IMO it does illustrate the difficulty of trying to use vintage lenses the way you are hoping to do. As in:-

How to attach a larger diameter lens in a manner that will allow it to "work" as an optical addition and as I mention.....the further forward (away from the built in lens) it will not work as you anticipate it would.

As for the attachment..... the camera is unlikely to be able to hold the weight, so you are now looking at a framework to hold the camera, lens frame & lens.

Frankly, even were it possible as an experimental exercise....it would be a 'dogs dinner'.
 
Box Brownie said:
I did find this......

mint-camera.com

Vintage Polaroid Cameras + New Instant Cameras | MiNT Official Site

website
mint-camera.com mint-camera.com


IMO it does illustrate the difficulty of trying to use vintage lenses the way you are hoping to do. As in:-

How to attach a larger diameter lens in a manner that will allow it to "work" as an optical addition and as I mention.....the further forward (away from the built in lens) it will not work as you anticipate it would.

As for the attachment..... the camera is unlikely to be able to hold the weight, so you are now looking at a framework to hold the camera, lens frame & lens.

Frankly, even were it possible as an experimental exercise....it would be a 'dogs dinner'.
Click to expand...

Yeah, MiNT have that set but it's very basic and not what i'm after.

I guess i'd need to do a bunch of testing with different lenses.

Where's the spirit!! c'mon :ROFLMAO:
 
redrose_45 said:
Yeah, MiNT have that set but it's very basic and not what i'm after.

I guess i'd need to do a bunch of testing with different lenses.

Where's the spirit!! c'mon :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...

When I used to have access to a full engineering workshop in my school days(quite some years ago), I would have happily gotten stuck into such a project.......and would still now if I had money to burn.

The mint attachment may be a good starting point for developing your own system......???

Edit

You can see from the mint adaptor how close you need to get the 'add on' lenses to the built in one to actually function! Just bear that in mind when considering the "how", "what" & "why" of what you are trying to achieve by hoping to use the vintage lenses.
 
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Box Brownie said:
When I used to have access to a full engineering workshop in my school days(quite some years ago), I would have happily gotten stuck into such a project.......and would still now if I had money to burn.

The mint attachment may be a good starting point for developing your own system......???
Click to expand...
The MiNT is okay but it's a dead end street. With the frame i showed in my initial post, having the 37mm screw mount offers you so much more possibility so I'll opt for that, and it's also cheaper.
 
Is it the SX-70 in particular that you want to use, or do you want to be able to use a 70-200 Zoom lens with an instant camera?
 
redrose_45 said:
The MiNT is okay but it's a dead end street. With the frame i showed in my initial post, having the 37mm screw mount offers you so much more possibility so I'll opt for that, and it's also cheaper.
Click to expand...

You only mentioned a frame in your OP, there was "show" of it.....was there? Edit ~ ah! The black part in pic #1 is it?

Look up T-mount adaptors.... though you still need to overcome that angular obstacle?
 
Box Brownie said:
You only mentioned a frame in your OP, there was "show" of it.....was there? Edit ~ ah! The black part in pic #1 is it?

Look up T-mount adaptors.... though you still need to overcome that angular obstacle?
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Yeah, the black part:) I should've made it more clear.

I will have a look! Thank you. And yeah. Does anything exist that can solely act as a spacer without it affecting the image? I assume it would need some sort of lens inside if it were to have that capability, because if it didn't, it would be as you mentioned above, an extension tube?
 
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Optically, I don’t think you will be able to add a telephoto lens in front of the standard SX70 lens, as the camera won’t focus. You also have very little room at all in front of the lens if you want to still be able to close the camera down.
 
Looking at the adaptor plate on imgur, the camera definitely won’t fold with that in place, and it looks to be mobile phone adaptor lenses next to the camera, which I’m not sure what the final image will look like.

Realistically, you’d have to mount a telephoto lens from a medium format camera to be able to cover the Polaroid image size too, meaning a custom build rather than an SX70.
 
RaglanSurf said:
How about one of these, all the benefits of a 35mm camera, you can use any Nikon lens but with an instant back that takes readily available Fuji Instax film?
petapixel.com

Instant Magny 35 Turns Your 35mm Camera Into an Instant Camera

The Instant Magny 35 is a new back that turns 35mm SLR and rangefinder cameras into instant cameras. Instead of buying a new camera to shoot Fujifilm's
petapixel.com petapixel.com
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That's actually a really cool find! I'll have a look into this.


stevelmx5 said:
Optically, I don’t think you will be able to add a telephoto lens in front of the standard SX70 lens, as the camera won’t focus. You also have very little room at all in front of the lens if you want to still be able to close the camera down.
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stevelmx5 said:
Looking at the adaptor plate on imgur, the camera definitely won’t fold with that in place, and it looks to be mobile phone adaptor lenses next to the camera, which I’m not sure what the final image will look like.

Realistically, you’d have to mount a telephoto lens from a medium format camera to be able to cover the Polaroid image size too, meaning a custom build rather than an SX70.
Click to expand...
Okay, that's an issue. Is there somewhere that I could learn about how the optics, in this specific case would work? I know it's a bit of an odd situation. And I wouldn't mind if i can't close down the camera. But everything I've mentioned so far is detachable so I should be able to close it after I take all the bits off.

The final image actually looked pretty good. This is a photo that the designer of the frame posted (the film itself was a bit dodgy but it worked)
https://imgur.com/a/qYkqoEp

And i am more than down for a custom build. I'd get a second SX-70 and would love to modify it to manage to take lenses. I'd just need some guidance or a place where I can learn everything I need to learn about how a camera's optics would work for this kind of modification. But if I was going to go down this route, I'd want to be able to swap out to theoretically any lens and not be stuck with just a telephoto.
 
redrose_45 said:
That's actually a really cool find! I'll have a look into this.




Okay, that's an issue. Is there somewhere that I could learn about how the optics, in this specific case would work? I know it's a bit of an odd situation. And I wouldn't mind if i can't close down the camera. But everything I've mentioned so far is detachable so I should be able to close it after I take all the bits off.

The final image actually looked pretty good. This is a photo that the designer of the frame posted (the film itself was a bit dodgy but it worked)
https://imgur.com/a/qYkqoEp

And i am more than down for a custom build. I'd get a second SX-70 and would love to modify it to manage to take lenses. I'd just need some guidance or a place where I can learn everything I need to learn about how a camera's optics would work for this kind of modification. But if I was going to go down this route, I'd want to be able to swap out to theoretically any lens and not be stuck with just a telephoto.
Click to expand...

Having repaired/rebuilt several SX70’s, I’d say it’s not a good donor camera due to its’ complexity with the way it folds and the internal mirror. Also, the front plate of the camera, around the lens, is considerably smaller than the mount you’d need for a medium format lens.

I built a test bed Instax Wide camera a few months ago, to test out a digital shutter I was working on, I’d suggest this would be a better option as a donor (obviously using Fuji Instax film rather than Polaroid)
 
stevelmx5 said:
Having repaired/rebuilt several SX70’s, I’d say it’s not a good donor camera due to its’ complexity with the way it folds and the internal mirror. Also, the front plate of the camera, around the lens, is considerably smaller than the mount you’d need for a medium format lens.

I built a test bed Instax Wide camera a few months ago, to test out a digital shutter I was working on, I’d suggest this would be a better option as a donor (obviously using Fuji Instax film rather than Polaroid)
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Yeah, I thought it may be an issue, being so small. So with that frame I pictured, in my original post, what type of lenses would I be limited to?

I may have to go down the instax route.
 
redrose_45 said:
Yeah, I thought it may be an issue, being so small. So with that frame I pictured, in my original post, what type of lenses would I be limited to?

I may have to go down the instax route.
Click to expand...

Looking at the frame, you’d be limited to either 37mm threaded lenses (like the ones next to it), or possibly larger using step up adaptors, but again, your options would be limited.
 
Are you primarily interested in using a longer telephoto lens, or do you want to use a range?
 
stevelmx5 said:
Looking at the frame, you’d be limited to either 37mm threaded lenses (like the ones next to it), or possibly larger using step up adaptors, but again, your options would be limited.
Click to expand...
How would the step up adapters affect focusing and what else could I use besides something like a 2x lens? I'm rather new to photography and have only used instant film cameras so excuse my lack of knowledge.


stevelmx5 said:
Are you primarily interested in using a longer telephoto lens, or do you want to use a range?
Click to expand...
I'd like to use a range. There are some bokeh lenses which really interest me and I think would look amazing on instant film.
 
redrose_45 said:
How would the step up adapters affect focusing and what else could I use besides something like a 2x lens? I'm rather new to photography and have only used instant film cameras so excuse my lack of knowledge.



I'd like to use a range. There are some bokeh lenses which really interest me and I think would look amazing on instant film.
Click to expand...

When you say “bokeh lenses”, do you mean lenses with a wide aperture? If there’s a specific lens you’d like to use, you’d need to integrate the mount into the Instax body, which would mean a complete disassembly/custom rebuild. Also, any different lenses you mount would have to have their own shutters, as standard Instax cameras have the shutter built in to the original lens.
 
redrose_45 said:
I'm open to all ideas!
Click to expand...

Also there's the lomograflok back (coming soon) for Instax Wide on 4x5 cameras. If you want high quality instant, I'd guess that's the top of the pile. And I think those large format lenses wide open would give you plenty of ooftah!
 
stevelmx5 said:
When you say “bokeh lenses”, do you mean lenses with a wide aperture? If there’s a specific lens you’d like to use, you’d need to integrate the mount into the Instax body, which would mean a complete disassembly/custom rebuild. Also, any different lenses you mount would have to have their own shutters, as standard Instax cameras have the shutter built in to the original lens.
Click to expand...
Well there's a particular projector lens i'm interested in, a carl zeiss kipronar which i'd really like to use with instant film. But that would need a custom mount so if i were to go about it, I would need to make things very interchangeable.

The issues you pose are totally right. My end goal is to be able to use instant film with all of the bells and whistles a (semi) professional camera would have.

I don't think sticking with an instax body would be a good idea with what things I have in mind and it seems more complex to add everything i'd need. But if I could just throw an instax back onto something with the capabilities i need, that would work. Similar to the Polaroid 110A/B instax modification.

I think I may have to get a camera body with the functionality I want and adapt it to use instant film but i'm not sure how to do that.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Also there's the lomograflok back (coming soon) for Instax Wide on 4x5 cameras. If you want high quality instant, I'd guess that's the top of the pile. And I think those large format lenses wide open would give you plenty of ooftah!
Click to expand...

That's pretty interesting. I'll keep this in mind. Thanks for letting me know about this, it seems like a cool project
 
redrose_45 said:
Well there's a particular projector lens i'm interested in, a carl zeiss kipronar which i'd really like to use with instant film. But that would need a custom mount so if i were to go about it, I would need to make things very interchangeable.

The issues you pose are totally right. My end goal is to be able to use instant film with all of the bells and whistles a (semi) professional camera would have.

I don't think sticking with an instax body would be a good idea with what things I have in mind and it seems more complex to add everything i'd need. But if I could just throw an instax back onto something with the capabilities i need, that would work. Similar to the Polaroid 110A/B instax modification.

I think I may have to get a camera body with the functionality I want and adapt it to use instant film but i'm not sure how to do that.
Click to expand...

Ian beat me to it, but I’ve been testing a beta LomoGraflok back on my SnapShot.

IMG_6798.JPG

This would allow for large format lenses to be used with Instax Wide. Although, for a projector lens you’d need a camera with a focal plane shutter, like a Speed Graphic.
 
redrose_45 said:
I think I may have to get a camera body with the functionality I want and adapt it to use instant film but i'm not sure how to do that.
Click to expand...

I have been reading a lot of articles about adapting instax to RB67 backs, and there are some custom ones out there, but price/difficulty have so far put me off. That would be *my* ideal choice for shooting high quality instant film as a) I have an RB67, and b) the glass quality is excellent.
 
Harlequin565 said:
I have been reading a lot of articles about adapting instax to RB67 backs, and there are some custom ones out there, but price/difficulty have so far put me off. That would be *my* ideal choice for shooting high quality instant film as a) I have an RB67, and b) the glass quality is excellent.
Click to expand...

Once it eventually arrives, I’ve got a new Instax Mini development unit on the way to me. I’m intending to then design a 679 film back adaptor around it, to give the option of shooting Instax Mini with large format or Mamiya Press lenses.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Once it eventually arrives, I’ve got a new Instax Mini development unit on the way to me. I’m intending to then design a 679 film back adaptor around it, to give the option of shooting Instax Mini with large format or Mamiya Press lenses.
Click to expand...

I was sooooo hoping you were gonna say that. Where's my happy dance emote....
 
stevelmx5 said:
Ian beat me to it, but I’ve been testing a beta LomoGraflok back on my SnapShot.

View attachment 300176

This would allow for large format lenses to be used with Instax Wide. Although, for a projector lens you’d need a camera with a focal plane shutter, like a Speed Graphic.
Click to expand...
That looks sick! I'm not really sure how that tech works. Do you need to take the back off to focus and frame the shot, then put it on to take the shot?

And what is "SnapShot"?

I guess if the camera I use doesn't already have a focal plane shutter, I'd not be able to use that lens. So i don think i could use the LomoGraflok in that case? Don't most lenses rely on a focal plane shutter anyway? How could I use a 70-200mm lens in that case?
 
A full explanation of basic optics would take far more than a single post. I think a good part of what you need to know to cover your more obvious queries is as follows - and I'm simplifying to the point of a few inaccuracies...

Focal length. To focus on infinity, the lens needs to be in front of the film by 1 focal length. The longer the focal length, the greater the distance. To focus closer than infinity, it needs to be even further away.

Lens designs called telephoto and retrofocus modify this requirement; and beware that many people use the word "telephoto" to mean any lens with a longer than normal focal length - there is a distinction. Telephotos will focus at infinity when less than 1 focal length away, and retrofocus when more than one focal length away.

This constrains what you can put on a camera unless you can easily control the lens/body separation.
 
StephenM said:
A full explanation of basic optics would take far more than a single post. I think a good part of what you need to know to cover your more obvious queries is as follows - and I'm simplifying to the point of a few inaccuracies...

Focal length. To focus on infinity, the lens needs to be in front of the film by 1 focal length. The longer the focal length, the greater the distance. To focus closer than infinity, it needs to be even further away.

Lens designs called telephoto and retrofocus modify this requirement; and beware that many people use the word "telephoto" to mean any lens with a longer than normal focal length - there is a distinction. Telephotos will focus at infinity when less than 1 focal length away, and retrofocus when more than one focal length away.

This constrains what you can put on a camera unless you can easily control the lens/body separation.
Click to expand...
Well that makes things tricky hmmm
 
redrose_45 said:
That looks sick! I'm not really sure how that tech works. Do you need to take the back off to focus and frame the shot, then put it on to take the shot?

And what is "SnapShot"?

I guess if the camera I use doesn't already have a focal plane shutter, I'd not be able to use that lens. So i don think i could use the LomoGraflok in that case? Don't most lenses rely on a focal plane shutter anyway? How could I use a 70-200mm lens in that case?
Click to expand...

SnapShot is one of the cameras I build under my Chroma brand;

chroma.camera

SnapShot – 4×5 Handheld Camera – Chroma Cameras

chroma.camera chroma.camera

It’s a handheld 4x5 (large format) camera, which can mount a range of different film holders (sheet film, Polaroid, rollfilm, Instax wide with the LomoGraflok, wet plate, dry plate).

The LomoGraflok is basically a Lomo Instant Wide camera, integrated into a simple ‘box’ with its’ lens removed. It then works as a developing unit, allowing you to expose the film with whichever lens/shutter you’re using.

With regards to using a 70-200 lens, I assume you mean an offering from Canon/Nikon/Sony? None of those could be used as they all rely on the camera body having the shutter mechanism. Their aperture is also electronically controlled by the camera.

To use a projector lens, you would need to use a camera body with a built in focal plane shutter, like a Speed Graphic.
 
Also, a 70-200 lens from Canon/Sony etc won’t offer full coverage of an Instax frame either. A full frame digital sensor is less than half the size of an Instax Mini frame.
 
For maximum flexibilty, you probably need to start with a camera that takes interchangeable lenses, uses bellows which allow short lenses, allows an instant film back, and either has a shutter in the body or allows a shutter to be mounted (if required) in front of or behind the lens.

Steve's offerings are probably the easiest route for you, particularly as other solutions require a reasonable understanding of some relatively specialised topics.
 
Who would've thought that making a camera would be so hard ahaha. I appreciate all of your help guys.

@stevelmx5 does your camera have the flexibility i'm after?
 
@stevelmx5 Don't whatever you do show him that instant film adaptor you made for the back of your 1960s Yashica 635 TLR, as that will probably send him over the edge completely! ;)

@redrose_45 You see, in the film and conventional section reality moves in a different way and we are blessed with the presence of our own 'mad professor' who keeps inventing wonderful toys for us to play with! :giggle:
 
Mr Badger said:
@stevelmx5 Don't whatever you do show him that instant film adaptor you made for the back of your 1960s Yashica 635 TLR, as that will probably send him over the edge completely! ;)

@redrose_45 You see, in the film and conventional section reality moves in a different way and we are blessed with the presence of our own 'mad professor' who keeps inventing wonderful toys for us to play with! :giggle:
Click to expand...
I love the mad professors of this community ahaha
 
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