Recommendations for continuous lighting?

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Dan
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(It's for still photography)

I've been watching some videos on 'cinematic lighting', this interests me and I want to explore it - and whilst I didn't want to skimp on lighting, I wondered if there was a step before this that was still worthwhile?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg19AWzuv7w


Going over some of his videos the lights coming up are

Godox Daylight LED Light KNOWLED M600D (£1400)

Falcon Eyes RX-24TDX (LED Panel) (£450)

Aputure LS 60X (£400-£450)
 
Please tell us more - why do you want to use continuous lighting for still photography? What type of subjects will you be shooting?
 
if you're only taking stills, it will be a lot cheaper to stick to normal flash, no? the "cinematic look" comes from the staging, modifiers as normal. Nothing magical about continuous lights, just much more expensive and less power. Studio heads with led modelling lights can help get the setup what you want with less trial and error.
 
Please tell us more - why do you want to use continuous lighting for still photography? What type of subjects will you be shooting?

Human subjects in real (probably average home) locations, using lights to create a film like set for your model to move in, an area with layers of depth and interest.

if you're only taking stills, it will be a lot cheaper to stick to normal flash, no? the "cinematic look" comes from the staging, modifiers as normal. Nothing magical about continuous lights, just much more expensive and less power. Studio heads with led modelling lights can help get the setup what you want with less trial and error.

I realise there's going to be a strong argument for strobes, but I also feel like there's a beauty in seeing it all before you, and being able to move in that space to where the light is.

Quickly considering your point about the model light - I doubt the model lights in my AD600 have the power to help simulate morning light through a bifold door from 10 feet away, but I suppose I could try.

I will give the strobe approach some more thought/testing, but being able to see how all the lights instantly work with each other and the environment, to build the scene with props and lamps, without having to constantly take test shots.
 
My answer to your question is the same as the one that "Punch" magazine once gave to gentlemen contemplating matrimony, DON'T :)

As an ex-married man, I can gel with that
As a photographer who had to start off with continuous lighting (because that's all that there was back then), the same view applies
As a photographer who has both shot video and shot stills during the videos, I understand both the pros and cons of both flash and continuous lighting.

Yes, there is one visual advantage with continuous lighting - it's brighter than a modelling lamp and so gives a much better idea of where the light and the shadows fall. No flash modelling lamp is bright enough to provide full information about lighting effects, and particularly not about shadow depth, unless the room is in total darkness, it's just a useful indication. Experienced photographers know this and do one of the following:
1. Exclude all light
2. Turn off room lighting and reduce the light as far as possible
3. Use their experience to visualise the result
4. Take a digital test shot and get the information from that.

Now look at the disadvantages.
1. Blindingly bright for the poor sitter - flash is on for such a tiny fraction of a second that many people don't even notice it.
2. Despite its dazzling nature, very low actual power, this requires a higher ISO setting and much longer shutter speeds, with the real possibility of both camera shake and subject movement.
3. The long shutter speeds introduce pollution from other light sources, removing precision from the lighting. Look at some of the lighting challenges in this forum - the people who have used continuous lighting cannot produce "pure"results because of light pollution.
4. Less accurate colour rendition. The CRI (Colour Rendition Index) of both daylight and flash is perfect, at 100. LED (and most other specific photographic continuous lights have a much lower CRI, and so cannot reproduce all colours accurately. The situation has improved a lot recently, and most manufacturers/sellers now claim a high CRI figure, but by no means all of them tell the truth, and it's beyond most of us to actually test their claims.
5. The better LED continuous lights are modelled on flash heads and have S-fit bayonet fittings that allow them to accept the essential light modifiers, but other designs don't, which makes them pretty useless for any type of creative lighting.

So, why are continuous lights so popular? Profit. They pretty much all have the same components, which cost very little. The genuine market for them is video, but they are marketed for still photography because the flash market is dominated by Godox and other manufacturers can't get a look in, so they've switched to continuous lighting, which pretty much anyone can make in a garden shed . . .
 
My answer to your question is the same as the one that "Punch" magazine once gave to gentlemen contemplating matrimony, DON'T :)

As an ex-married man, I can gel with that
As a photographer who had to start off with continuous lighting (because that's all that there was back then), the same view applies
As a photographer who has both shot video and shot stills during the videos, I understand both the pros and cons of both flash and continuous lighting.

Yes, there is one visual advantage with continuous lighting - it's brighter than a modelling lamp and so gives a much better idea of where the light and the shadows fall. No flash modelling lamp is bright enough to provide full information about lighting effects, and particularly not about shadow depth, unless the room is in total darkness, it's just a useful indication. Experienced photographers know this and do one of the following:
1. Exclude all light
2. Turn off room lighting and reduce the light as far as possible
3. Use their experience to visualise the result
4. Take a digital test shot and get the information from that.

Now look at the disadvantages.
1. Blindingly bright for the poor sitter - flash is on for such a tiny fraction of a second that many people don't even notice it.
2. Despite its dazzling nature, very low actual power, this requires a higher ISO setting and much longer shutter speeds, with the real possibility of both camera shake and subject movement.
3. The long shutter speeds introduce pollution from other light sources, removing precision from the lighting. Look at some of the lighting challenges in this forum - the people who have used continuous lighting cannot produce "pure"results because of light pollution.
4. Less accurate colour rendition. The CRI (Colour Rendition Index) of both daylight and flash is perfect, at 100. LED (and most other specific photographic continuous lights have a much lower CRI, and so cannot reproduce all colours accurately. The situation has improved a lot recently, and most manufacturers/sellers now claim a high CRI figure, but by no means all of them tell the truth, and it's beyond most of us to actually test their claims.
5. The better LED continuous lights are modelled on flash heads and have S-fit bayonet fittings that allow them to accept the essential light modifiers, but other designs don't, which makes them pretty useless for any type of creative lighting.

So, why are continuous lights so popular? Profit. They pretty much all have the same components, which cost very little. The genuine market for them is video, but they are marketed for still photography because the flash market is dominated by Godox and other manufacturers can't get a look in, so they've switched to continuous lighting, which pretty much anyone can make in a garden shed . . .

Thanks Garry, i think deep down i knew this was coming :)

I will see what i can do with my strobes, I can then just get a smoke machine to get started with the look i want.
 
Thanks Garry, i think deep down i knew this was coming :)

I will see what i can do with my strobes, I can then just get a smoke machine to get started with the look i want.
Yes, I'm nothing if not predictable:)

Smoke machines actually work better with flash . . .
And if you want to be really creative then you could throw some flour around, which can only work with flash
 
Yes, I'm nothing if not predictable:)

Smoke machines actually work better with flash . . .
And if you want to be really creative then you could throw some flour around, which can only work with flash

I doubt i'll get away with that mess.. it'll be more like these series

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CUFcGcJILni/?img_index=4


https://www.instagram.com/p/CWiwVjuolIm/?img_index=1

Not to say this is the photographer that inspired the idea, just the latest one i happened upon with those tutorial vids.

I figured with continuous lighting, I could feel like I'm living in a bladerunner set in my own home whilst I make photos

have some decorative lamps, and there's a projector in the room i could play with.
 
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Be VERY careful with airborne clouds of flour - it can be explosive! Flour dust recovery cyclones were one of James Dyson's inspirations for his vacuum cleaners.
 
Be VERY careful with airborne clouds of flour - it can be explosive! Flour dust recovery cyclones were one of James Dyson's inspirations for his vacuum cleaners.
Yes, this is a real danger, as mentioned by @Scooter in the video.
 
I doubt i'll get away with that mess.. it'll be more like these series

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CUFcGcJILni/?img_index=4


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CWiwVjuolIm/?img_index=1


Not to say this is the photographer that inspired the idea, just the latest one i happened upon with those tutorial vids.

I figured with continuous lighting, I could feel like I'm living in a bladerunner set in my own home whilst I make photos

have some decorative lamps, and there's a projector in the room i could play with.


Not to say this is the photographer that inspired the idea, just the latest one i happened upon with those tutorial vids.

I figured with continuous lighting, I could feel like I'm living in a bladerunner set in my own home whilst I make photos

have some decorative lamps, and there's a projector in the room i could play with.
I would consider that more chiaroscuro/film noir type of lighting rather than cinematic perse (what is "cinematic" anyway?).
I also found that first video misleading/wrong; I skimmed the first ~ 2 1/2min and left annoyed...

I don't really have any issue with constant lights if it's using what you have; or even very low cost additions to what you have. I.e. if you want to add a couple cheap LED bulbs in generic holders and DIY scrims to use with your projector and existing lighting, then go for it... you can do a lot that way. But if there is any real money investment/concern, or higher production values are important (light quality/colors/accuracy/match/time/efficiency/etc/etc) then constant light sources are not what I would be using for stills.

And you really don't need much for film noir type lighting... you could do a lot with a projector and some DIY scrims/reflectors.
 
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I would consider that more chiaroscuro/film noir type of lighting rather than cinematic perse (what is "cinematic" anyway?).
I also found that first video misleading/wrong; I skimmed the first ~ 2 1/2min and left annoyed...

I don't really have any issue with constant lights if it's using what you have; or even very low cost additions to what you have. I.e. if you want to add a couple cheap LED bulbs in generic holders and DIY scrims to use with your projector and existing lighting, then go for it... you can do a lot that way. But if there is any real money investment/concern, or higher production values are important (light quality/colors/accuracy/match/time/efficiency/etc/etc) then constant light sources are not what I would be using for stills.

And you really don't need much for film noir type lighting... you could do a lot with a projector and some DIY scrims/reflectors.

thanks, chiaroscuro and bladerunner go hand in hand it seems ! I'd heard the term, didn't know what it applied to - but now I can add that into my research.
 
thanks, chiaroscuro and bladerunner go hand in hand it seems ! I'd heard the term, didn't know what it applied to - but now I can add that into my research.
There will be a lighting challenge on Chiaroscuro lighting soon . . .

I know that it can't be done with a single light, except that it can :)
 
back to the smoke machine point, @dancook smoke/fog machines is a very different look to haze machines. most people associate a "cinematic" look with haze machines, e.g. morning light through the door you mentioned. The effect from fog machines disperses quite quickly, haze hangs in the air.
 
back to the smoke machine point, @dancook smoke/fog machines is a very different look to haze machines. most people associate a "cinematic" look with haze machines, e.g. morning light through the door you mentioned. The effect from fog machines disperses quite quickly, haze hangs in the air.

Yes I saw another video that mentioned haze machine as oppose to 'fog', i'll be sure to use that as my term when i look for one. cheers
 
Yes I saw another video that mentioned haze machine as oppose to 'fog', i'll be sure to use that as my term when i look for one. cheers
It's another slippery slope. I've ended up with two fog machines and one haze machine. If I remember correctly, the haze machine is a bit more expensive.
 
It's another slippery slope. I've ended up with two fog machines and one haze machine. If I remember correctly, the haze machine is a bit more expensive.

which haze machine did you go with and is it good?
 
It's another slippery slope. I've ended up with two fog machines and one haze machine. If I remember correctly, the haze machine is a bit more expensive.
Haze machines have a fan. That's pretty much the only difference (you can buy oil-based hazers but I wouldn't recommend that tbh, and very expensive haze machines but for stills, we have the luxury of just taking the shot when it finally looks good). I just aim the fog into the intake of a floor drier. It chops it up pretty well. As long as you use high-persistence fog juice, it'll hang around and become a nice even haze. Here's a video I made about fog a few years ago (it's a bit long - I think I'd have got this down to 10 minutes in the edit these days :) )
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQkJZuhGos
 
The main reason I use constant lights for stills, is if I'm placing light very precisely. It just makes it easier if you can see it. I am usually using incandescent (tungsten) sources for this but do have some LED COB lights as well that I can use with breakup gels and focusing attachments. It's also useful for teaching.
 
re modelling light, yes the AD600 is not very powerful. The QT600II / QT1200III give a pretty good idea.
I also find, unless you are using a softbox or something else that bounces and mixes the light up before sending it towards your subject, the difference in size between the modelling lamp, and the flash tube often produces a very different quality of light.

These two shots were taken with the exact same lighting setup. On the left is the flash output, and on the right is the modelling light result. If I remember correctly there were two strip softboxes in the back, and the key light is a standard reflector with grid. (gels as seen in the result, but suspect I processed the colour differently, and added that gradient too). I could see the right-hand result in the dark room we were in (was a demo at a camera club so had the lights turned off to use the projector to show the results). In the end I shot the modelling light as it just looks much closer to what I wanted. Of course I could have got the same result with flash eventually - just needed to make it smaller.

1728408290932.png
 
I also find, unless you are using a softbox or something else that bounces and mixes the light up before sending it towards your subject, the difference in size between the modelling lamp, and the flash tube often produces a very different quality of light.
There can be big differences, but in my experience they're caused more by differences in position than by differences in size.
The now dated but still common E27 modelling lamps are in a very different place than the flash tube https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/28499317...o0BtmbVtSVo35znD9Ws27f5m0=|tkp:Bk9SR7aciNTNZA and by contrast, my new flash head, with a very bright LED array, which sits in the middle of the flash tube and immediately behind it, gives very similar results to flash with both a standard reflector and a focussing spotlight.

Going back in time, I think that Elinchrom did a good job with their modelling lamps, which effectively blocked the direct light from the flash tube, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/18466838...ZnNmS8w+CMjwgz3SuAa2/IcbM=|tkp:Bk9SR7aciNTNZA

Owen is right, the differences disappear when a blunt tool such as a softbox is used,
 
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