RPS distinctions

P

PHOTONA

Messages
18
Name
P
Edit My Images
No
Hello,
I am wondering about the value or rather recognition of RPS distinctions. For myself getting it is for evaluation of what I would be doing anyway so the questions is rather about what is their position in photographic /artistic world.
I myself have an academic training within both fine art (not photography) and architecture and photography was always assisting me as a supportive tool. Last year I joined one of the photographic societies to take part into competitions (a motivational factor for myself really) and I am pretty confused as the members are usually self taught or amateurs (the club is affiliated to PAGB though). It doesn't matter to me because I would be producing these photos anyway. But now thinking if it is the same with RPS distinctions? That people getting their distinctions usually didn't have a former any sort of visual art/photography education? Asking because sometimes getting a distinction might not necessarily elevate you. What I could see judges there are usually also self -taught?
Any comments/reflections on this?
 
Last edited:
All qualifications in photography seem to me to be a form of applause.

The exceptions, in my opinion, are the qualifications granted by accredited organisations, for achieving technical capability in commercial or scientific fields.
 
You just have to ask yourself if getting the paper in fine art or photography more critical than producing the results. And I would suggest that it is not. Once you get past that idea you will enjoy the process a lot more

This comes from someone with a bloody PhD that is most clearly not in arts...
 
Depends on what you were hoping to gain from the distinction, what field you were hoping it would help you in, and where in the world.
What do you mean by "academic training"? It would seem to indicate that you may have studied towards a degree.
My daughter has a degree in fine art and illustration, and my son has just completed a degree in architecture, and although my daughter is extremely good with a camera, my son is not and has no interest in anything more than necessity, but in neither case would they have been "elevated" by any recognition in photography.
 
Distinctions are a way of finding out how really good you are, not just if your mum or partner thinks you're great

The LRPS (which I did) is a general photographic ability one

The ARPS & FRPS are both MUCH harder to achieve and will take real time & effort

ALL societies offer similar, usually with the same L, A, F categories and ALL are worth trying for, if only to prove yourself to yourself

Once you have proved yourself, staying a member so you can keep using the letters is usually a more commercial choice. I found the RPS didn't warrant enough to stay a member there, though I have been a member of another society, where I also have a distinction, for over 15 years

So its really down to what you want from it :)
 
My ex-wife did a degree in Media Production - Photography at an art college, following having done A Level then an HND. The A level got her an exemption to get the LRPS, and the degree got her an exemption to get the ARPS. She (I) paid her membership for a year afterwards, but as she didn't do anything professional in photography, it was discontinued.
My point being, if you feel that a distinction might help in marketing your services as a photographer or on your cv, then it may have some value. If you want to use the distinctions as a way of focusing your efforts in photography and getting validation of your ability to present those efforts, they have some value. But they are not qualifications.
For comparison, I got my MBCS (computer society) many years ago through a mixture of exemptions and examination, essentially because I was going into a lecturing role so it was felt I should be able to evidence my level of expertise. Some years later about 10 years ago I was elected a Fellow as a result of specialisation in a particular field. That I maintained and still do, because it helped me get a few contracts for work, I'll be dropping it when I retire properly though.
 
I started down the LRPS route, but after a fair bit of work, I abandoned the quest. I felt that I was being pulled away from making the images I liked, and developing my own style, towards a box-ticking homogeneity. In other words, I listened to the advice and criticism, but decided I didn't want to follow it.

I don't regret the work to pull together a portfolio of prints, and to think about the display of them. Nor do I regret the many hours of showing them to a variety of people and getting their opinions. I still have the portfolio, and come across the prints from time to time.
 
PAGB distinctions are camera club focussed. I’ve never gone for one as I’m not in a camera club, so I can’t comment on the experience or academic credentials of the awarding committee / judges.

RPS distinctions are a little different. There are some professional qualifications on offer but these are for imaging science etc. In terms of distinctions, I did the ARPS a few years ago and got more from the journey than I did the award. For instance, I had to improve my processing of the images and my printing, learn about editing a large number of photographs down to a smaller selection and then sequence them. These were transferable skills that were useful when doing my exhibitions, zines, books, etc. Going through this process not only made me a better photographer, but it also gave me some validation that my work had some merit and gave me the confidence to go and ask for exhibitions etc. The distinction itself hasn’t done anything for me other than provide a gateway to the FRPS which I’ll eventually apply for.

My understanding of the RPS judging panels, certainly the FRPS ones as that’s what I’ve more recent experience of, are a mix of photographers from academia, fine art, commercial as well as (possibly self-taught) amateurs.
 
Boots said:
I started down the LRPS route, but after a fair bit of work, I abandoned the quest. I felt that I was being pulled away from making the images I liked, and developing my own style, towards a box-ticking homogeneity. In other words, I listened to the advice and criticism, but decided I didn't want to follow it.
Click to expand...

This....once it got to the point of me not enjoying the images myself I didn't follow up on it. We have a number of people in our club competing for Fellowships in the RPS (we have one with 9!), FIAPs and BPEs and some who are clearly not encouraging those who are starting on the distinction ladder to follow through, even though they couldn't get to where they are without help from others (without giving acknowledgement to those who helped).... They guy with the multiple fellowships is more than happy to help and encourage....
 
I did the L and A in order to create some sort of output for the work I'm putting in - otherwise it's just photos on social media or on a hard drive. I got lots out of doing it, but the reward is in doing the work not the outcome.

also, distinctions are meaningless... almost all photographers that I look up to haven\t done them and wouldn't do them. Though, they have other avenues through which they create the output that I felt I was missing.
 
Save your money - you gain nothing except the 'ability' to rent a few initials after your name. If you were so inclined you could do that without paying anyone anything.

Forty plus years ago I took a Mensa test (for a bet) whilst at Greenwich University. I passed the tests easily and was told I could join their club as my IQ was in the top 1% of the population.

I just laughed and said, 'you've just told me I'm brighter than most - why would I want to give you money for nothing?' The bloke's face was a picture . . .
 
Last edited:
I have several UK and international distinctions. I originally attempted them to challenge myself but did not have to pursue a different types of photography. Some want distinctions because they wish to lecture or judge at camera clubs and it is expected. References to "self taught" as if it is inferior puzzles me. All my photography is self taught. As a scientist you have to want to explore subjects and find out more so this suits me well. I have come across some who attend formal courses but seem incapable of learning much at all.

Dave
 
Sky said:
I just laughed and said, 'you've just told me I'm brighter than most - why would I want to give you money for nothing?' The bloke's face was a picture . . .
Click to expand...
That reminds me of an aquaintance who, while testing the firmware for a soon to be released laser printer, checked the processing of card stock by creating a file of business cards.

It was a plain design with his name and address in the usual areas but some of his colleagues were puzzled by the letters following his name: "N.F.Q." I leave it to the reader to work out what they stood for... :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That reminds me of an aquaintance who, while testing the firmware for a soon to be released laser printer, checked the processing of card stock by creating a file of business cards.

It was a plain design with his name and address in the usual areas but some of his colleagues were puzzled by the letters following his name: "N.F.Q." I leave it to the reader to work out what they stood for... :naughty:
Click to expand...
I've used the acronym ATGNI at a recent club exhibition...
 
If it is an actual qualification, OFQUAL regulate the awarding bodies. If it is a distinction, like RPS, probably nobody.
 
realspeed said:
My simple question is "who examines the examiners"?
Click to expand...

For the RPS? They are usually members already awarded the Fellowship level, a minimum of 3 and up to 5

Some organisations have specific, and very lengthy, training for their Judging panels

So mostly, its the best of the best within the organisation who are the Judges
 
For those who want to get a better understanding of how the RPS run their distinctions, there are several (32 of them according to the playlist) videos on their Youtube channel.

Link to the playlist page is below But you need to navigate to the "distinctions" stack:

www.youtube.com

The Royal Photographic Society

The Royal Photographic Society (RPS) is a membership organisation that is here to guide you on your journey as a photographer. Whether you work in analogue, digital photography or video and use a mobile phone, compact digital camera or DSLR to capture your film or photo, we can help. We offer a...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

They recently did a series of 4 videos explaining what was expected for the LRPS, (in summary (my interpretation): a basic competency in a "breadth" of photographic skills).
 
I agree that the RPS distinctions (usually) have a real value, because of the learning and the journey only.

But not always. A very long time ago they issued "Honoury" distinctions to some people, including an extremely talented wildlife photographer who wasn't a member, but also to a member who had submitted a paper on the history of photography, to another who was very good at presenting slideshows to camera clubs and to me too, for reasons that were a complete mystery to me. My employer at the time had submitted one of my advertising photos into the major completion and I won 2nd prize, that was my only achievement. I was willing to accept it until I found out that I had to join them and pay them a hefty annual fee . . .

Regards,

Garry Edwards,
B.A., Holder of Firearms Certifiate, Holder of Shotgun Certificate, Holder of UK passport, Holder of UK driving licence, member of pub pool team, non-member, RPS, ex- FRPS
 
Garry Edwards said:
Garry Edwards,
B.A., Holder of Firearms Certifiate, Holder of Shotgun Certificate, Holder of UK passport, Holder of UK driving licence, member of pub pool team, non-member, RPS, ex- FRPS
Click to expand...
You forgot marriage certificate, Costco nectar and club card membership, concessionary bus pass holder, covid immunisation certificate holder, and many many more
 
Sangoma said:
You forgot marriage certificate, Costco nectar and club card membership, concessionary bus pass holder, covid immunisation certificate holder, and many many more
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but I did put my various entitlements and qualifications in the correct order of importance to me:)
But, come to think about it, I don't think that my photography BA was worth the time, effort and money either, it certainly didn't equip me to work as a photographer, so maybe that one should come after "member of pub pool team".

:)
 
Theywere very popular with camera club members at one time. Having been to the judging panels and the RPS a lot back in the day, I cant say I was impressed.
While a lot of attention was paid to even the layout of the images and order, little thought seemed to be given to subject matter (IMHO)
I was told by a senior RPS member that for the FRPS they liked to be able to recognise a members "style".
Which might explain the exhibitions I've seen there, including one that had a red coffee pot in every shot, and another that had a fishtank in every shot...... Nuff said....
 
wow, thank you for a massive response, I already like this forum (just joined). To clarify, academic training in my case means MA in both, thinking about pursuing a dream of self discovery through trying even higher however you may interpret it and thought about including photography in this process. Since long out of uni considered it could be a good start. I enjoy the journey so some comments about getting 'a label of being good' is not relevant. Came probably from my sentence about elevating you or not.
But still if I invest my time I want to know I will have valuable feedback that is mainly what I am concerned about.
I've seen fellowship distinctions and I see some of them as good but as mentioned photography was never my main medium. The only genres I do consider are visual art photography and contemporary photography , maybe applied photography at some point if I decide to use it as a practical tool. Totally not interested in anything else really.

As mentioned preparing photos for panel is a very good way to improve mainly on its own so another motivating factor and for getting titles no matter how horrible it would sound I am not interested in using it (but you can always mentioned you gained a distinction and it is a valuable information) so was not even going to continue with membership.

Still not sure how it is seen in general for example by 'visual' academics. Obviously these are your projects that are going to speak not for what/where you produced it but as mentioned I want to know.
Thanks again
 
Last edited:
DemiLion said:
A small but very important point:

What we are talking about here are distinctions, NOT qualifications.

Quals are (at least in photography) only awarded by educational/academic institutions. Everything else is just an ego massage (as you implied).
Click to expand...
you mean, you would compare RPS distinctions to the ones awarded by academic institutions?
 
LongLensPhotography said:
You just have to ask yourself if getting the paper in fine art or photography more critical than producing the results. And I would suggest that it is not. Once you get past that idea you will enjoy the process a lot more

This comes from someone with a bloody PhD that is most clearly not in arts...
Click to expand...
its not about a paper as responded already.Starting PhD is my dream (well not a dream, the aim) and not for a paper but for self-discovery.Congrats on yours.
 
lindsay said:
My ex-wife did a degree in Media Production - Photography at an art college, following having done A Level then an HND. The A level got her an exemption to get the LRPS, and the degree got her an exemption to get the ARPS. She (I) paid her membership for a year afterwards, but as she didn't do anything professional in photography, it was discontinued.
My point being, if you feel that a distinction might help in marketing your services as a photographer or on your cv, then it may have some value. If you want to use the distinctions as a way of focusing your efforts in photography and getting validation of your ability to present those efforts, they have some value. But they are not qualifications.
For comparison, I got my MBCS (computer society) many years ago through a mixture of exemptions and examination, essentially because I was going into a lecturing role so it was felt I should be able to evidence my level of expertise. Some years later about 10 years ago I was elected a Fellow as a result of specialisation in a particular field. That I maintained and still do, because it helped me get a few contracts for work, I'll be dropping it when I retire properly though.
Click to expand...
yeah, I do not think qualifications are worth anyway, thinking about the same as you mentioned , to evidence my level of experience rather and the way of thinking.If you are working on projects privately this is not really such a good 'evidence' and not verified by anyone.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
PAGB distinctions are camera club focussed. I’ve never gone for one as I’m not in a camera club, so I can’t comment on the experience or academic credentials of the awarding committee / judges.

RPS distinctions are a little different. There are some professional qualifications on offer but these are for imaging science etc. In terms of distinctions, I did the ARPS a few years ago and got more from the journey than I did the award. For instance, I had to improve my processing of the images and my printing, learn about editing a large number of photographs down to a smaller selection and then sequence them. These were transferable skills that were useful when doing my exhibitions, zines, books, etc. Going through this process not only made me a better photographer, but it also gave me some validation that my work had some merit and gave me the confidence to go and ask for exhibitions etc. The distinction itself hasn’t done anything for me other than provide a gateway to the FRPS which I’ll eventually apply for.

My understanding of the RPS judging panels, certainly the FRPS ones as that’s what I’ve more recent experience of, are a mix of photographers from academia, fine art, commercial as well as (possibly self-taught) amateurs.
Click to expand...
thanks, the same motivation, but you want to know who will assess it. You mean research distinction? I was checking this already, extremely interesting , not many examples accessible.
 
PHOTONA said:
wow, thank you for a massive response, I already like this forum (just joined). To clarify, academic training in my case means MA in both, thinking about pursuing a dream of self discovery through trying even higher however you may interpret it and thought about including photography in this process. Since long out of uni and not in the UK considered it could be a good start. I enjoy the journey so some comments about getting 'a label of being good' is not relevant. Came probably from my sentence about elevating you or not.
But still if I invest my time I want to know I will have valuable feedback that is mainly what I am concerned about.
I've seen fellowship distinctions and I see some of them as good but as mentioned photography was never my main medium. The only genres I do consider are visual art photography and contemporary photography , maybe applied photography at some point if I decide to use it as a practical tool. Totally not interested in anything else really.

As mentioned preparing photos for panel is a very good way to improve mainly on its own so another motivating factor and for getting titles no matter how horrible it would sound I am not interested in using it (but you can always mentioned you gained a distinction and it is a valuable information) so was not even going to continue with membership.

Still not sure how it is seen in general in the UK for example by 'visual' academics. Obviously these are your projects that are going to speak not for what/where you produced it but as mentioned I want to know.
Thanks again
Click to expand...


Wouldn't you rather need to know how these things are viewed in you country? I thought you were not from the UK.

In the UK there is NARIC that evaluate overseas qualifications where they are needed, but generally people here don't care what overseas qualifications you have.
I have qualifications from SA, and my employers never asked to see them. My wife has a degree in commerce and a law degree from the Philippines, and nobody or potential employer is interested or wants to see them.
It is how they are viewed where you are that counts really, though people in Asia often think more highly of UK qualification than people in the UK do
 
RPS distinctions take a fair degree of effort to get but are only usable so long as you remain a paid up member.

While a number of professionals are given honorary distinctions almost no professionals get them as members.
It is by a large majority an amateur thing, especially among club memberships.

It has no perceivable value at all in the professional world.

There are no British photographic qualifications or distinctions that have commercial value today
You might as well put NBQ after your name

No bloody qualifications.
 
Last edited:
Sangoma said:
Wouldn't you rather need to know how these things are viewed in you country? I thought you were not from the UK.

In the UK there is NARIC that evaluate overseas qualifications where they are needed, but generally people here don't care what overseas qualifications you have.
I have qualifications from SA, and my employers never asked to see them. My wife has a degree in commerce and a law degree from the Philippines, and nobody or potential employer is interested or wants to see them.
It is how they are viewed where you are that counts really, though people in Asia often think more highly of UK qualification than people in the UK do
Click to expand...
the UK is my country. Wouldn't you rather focus on a subject and question asked? Otherwise maybe another forum is more appropriate for you.
 
PHOTONA said:
the UK is my country. Wouldn't you rather focus on a subject and question asked? Otherwise maybe another forum is more appropriate for you.
Click to expand...
You said "Since long out of uni and not in the UK" !
And I think where you are is an important aspect directly related to your OP

Why the agro attitude towards people just trying to help?
 
I've already explained it is NOT about getting a paper, letters after name etc. Corrected the title of this thread as I put qualifications but was referring clearly to distinctions, the journey to it and the value of the feedback you can get.
 
Last edited:
The PAGB distinctions may be harder to achieve than the RPS. Certainly I think MPAGB is much more difficult to obtain than FRPS. There area also FIAP and PSA distinctions to be had and a few others as well. While the PAGB is UK, PSA is US centered and FIAP European centered. From what I can see, it is like a drug for some photographers who keep striving for the next level though they know it will not bring them any reward and very little recognition.

Dave
 
Dave Canon said:
The PAGB distinctions may be harder to achieve than the RPS. Certainly I think MPAGB is much more difficult to obtain than FRPS. There area also FIAP and PSA distinctions to be had and a few others as well. While the PAGB is UK, PSA is US centered and FIAP European centered. From what I can see, it is like a drug for some photographers who keep striving for the next level though they know it will not bring them any reward and very little recognition.

Dave
Click to expand...
I STRONGLY* disagree with PAGB distinctions, I know some who 'achieved' it and have no idea what a body of work is. It is more for 'single piece' amateurs who learnt what judges like, but it might be different depending on the region.
*sorry, my keybord suggestions
 
Last edited:
Just a comment from the side lines...

If you want to take pictures to sell or just to please, I doubt that there's a piece of paper or collection of letters that will advance that aim. The only feedback I've found helpful, over the last sixty years, is money in my hand or someone telling me how much they like an image.

Other opinions are available and quite likely, just as valid.
 
Dave Canon said:
The PAGB distinctions may be harder to achieve than the RPS. Certainly I think MPAGB is much more difficult to obtain than FRPS. There area also FIAP and PSA distinctions to be had and a few others as well. While the PAGB is UK, PSA is US centered and FIAP European centered. From what I can see, it is like a drug for some photographers who keep striving for the next level though they know it will not bring them any reward and very little recognition.

Dave
Click to expand...
I work in a multi-national engineering business so it’s not uncommon for us to use our engineering post-nominals after our names in email footers, reports etc.
I went to a presentation in work once by a particularly pompous engineer who on the opening slide of his presentation not only used BEng, CEng, MIET after his name (not uncommon in our business) but also a veritable alphabet soup of FIAP, PAGB and goodness knows what else that he’d collected. The full set ended up being as long as the title of the presentation. Ultimately he ended up looking a complete prick as none of the photographic credential were of any relevance whatsoever and meaningless to everyone bar me.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Just a comment from the side lines...

If you want to take pictures to sell or just to please, I doubt that there's a piece of paper or collection of letters that will advance that aim. The only feedback I've found helpful, over the last sixty years, is money in my hand or someone telling me how much they like an image.

Other opinions are available and quite likely, just as valid.
Click to expand...
Agreed. They may impress people at the local camera club, they may also impress (or deceive) some potential wedding clients who believe that paid membership of some kind of trade association, and the alphabet soup that they supply at a price actually means something, but in the world of B2B photography, nobody cares. All that clients actually care about is the right attitude, the right service, the quality of the last job and the absolute confidentially required of photographers who are photographing their new product ranges (and especially fashion) months before they are launched. Pro photographers are a bit like medical doctors and lawyers, we don't talk about clients and we don't even admit that we've even heard of them, let alone worked for them. Occasional comments have been made about me, saying that I dispense advice but don't back it up with examples. Well, there's an obvious reason for that - I can publish my own secrets but not those of others.

viewfromthenorth said:
I work in a multi-national engineering business so it’s not uncommon for us to use our engineering post-nominals after our names in email footers, reports etc.
I went to a presentation in work once by a particularly pompous engineer who on the opening slide of his presentation not only used BEng, CEng, MIET after his name (not uncommon in our business) but also a veritable alphabet soup of FIAP, PAGB and goodness knows what else that he’d collected. The full set ended up being as long as the title of the presentation. Ultimately he ended up looking a complete prick as none of the photographic credential were of any relevance whatsoever and meaningless to everyone bar me.
Click to expand...
The most blatant and ridiculous examples are probably local government officers, especially in planning, environmental health and similar. They all seem to waste a lot of ink on meaningless details of their "achievements".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top