Selling motorsport images

Matt_B

Matt_B

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Matthew
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Right, I’ve made a conscious decision that in 2011 I’d like to progress my motorsport photography somewhat as the stuff I shot last year I really enjoyed. I'd like to progress it beyond a hobby and make a bit of money out of it if I can.

Being a motorsport fanatic means that I get along to a fair number of events anyway, from rally stages to track days to circuit races so I figured I might as well take the opportunity to take more photos.

Now I understand that I will have to spend some money to get better equipment, this thread isn’t really about that. Im currently shooting with a 450D but will probably look for a 1D Mk3 come Easter. Thanks to those who gave feedback on my Sigma thread the other day too.

Now the questions start, the races I shot last year were all from behind the fence and whilst my keeper rate was fairly low, some friends ended up buying prints from me as they liked the pics. My first question is, if I wanted to start selling photos, either from behind the fence or in front of it, who can I actually sell them to? By this I mean, there are a select number of motorsport publications in the UK, and a few websites covering the main race series but surely these are covered by the main agencies LAT, Sutton etc?

I understand its important to start small etc but just wondered how you work your way up the ladder etc? Do I need to be able to write a story as well, therefore providing a feature of the day surrounding one driver perhaps?

My apologies if some of these questions seem a little naïve, but im trying to step off on the right foot and your thoughts would be most welcome.
Thanks in advance.
 
I understood that unless you are signed on as media at a race event, you aren't actually legally allowed to sell any images you take - they are for personal use only. Rallies might be slightly different, as most of them take place on publicly accessible property.

All the major motorsport publications will have one or more photographers at every major event giving them all the photos they need, so unless you capture something spectacular that no-one else does, then that would be a difficult door to open.

The advice I've read before is to start off with some of the junior/lower series - go and talk with all the teams in the pit lane and see if they need photos for publicity, blogs etc. If the quality is good (have printed proofs ready) and the price is right, then you may be able to start supplying images to one or more of the drivers and teams for the season, who can then help arrange media access for future events (you'll need your own public liability insurance). This might mean you miss out on your local BTCC/GT/F1 round as you travel to the middle-of-nowhere to cover a crtitical round of your chosen series.

You can also send photos to your local newspaper (and a written article here will also help) if any local drivers/teams are competing. Most teams and publications will need their photos (and write-ups for press releases) either the same day of the event, or first thing the following morning, so it will pay dividends to have your workflow sorted out.

With a lot of hard work and a bit of good luck, over the course of the year you will get a several photos published (but maybe not paid), and this will make getting media access easier the following year - though you would still need a letter from an editor saying they are going to use your photos.

After that, it should just be a case of more hard work, more networking with teams, drivers, editors etc to get yourself better known :)
 
The making money from it is the hard bit. Getting access is easy enough, just a question of knowing the right people.

A 1D3 is a nice thing to have, but quite frankly you can manage perfectly well with lesser bodies, even a 450D.
 
Starting in a lower series seems sensible. I've pull a few ideas together.

Out of interest how much per annum is PLI?

Andrew - point taken. I've seen your Racing Exposure site by the way, you must be a busy bee!
 
Matt_B said:
Right, I’ve made a conscious decision that in 2011 I’d like to progress my motorsport photography somewhat as the stuff I shot last year I really enjoyed. I'd like to progress it beyond a hobby and make a bit of money out of it if I can.
Click to expand...

If you enjoy it then keep enjoying it :)
But its a bit like wanting to be a pop star, except that if you are lucky enough to 'make it' you still wont be earning enough to live on.
At the moment everyone wants to be a motorsport photographer, so as with all business its 'supply and demand' and there is lots of supply and very little demand, so the value of motorsport photos are very very small, and more often than not zero.
So if you look at it as a theoretical business model:

year 1:
£4000 outlay on equipment (not including any interest if you borrowed the money) - and £4000 wont get you half as good equipment as the established players.
£1000 on travel and accommodation expenses..
income - probably £0.
So thats a loss of £5000 in year 1

year 2:
£500 on equipment
£1000 expenses
income - probably £0 again

year 3
£500 on equipment
£1000 expenses
income - lets say you now know a few people and earn £100 per race over 10 races = £1000

so over 3 years you've spent £8000 and earned £1000 which is a loss of £7000.

so as you can see, you'll be in profit after about 10 years.


but anyway, thats just an average scenario designed to show you the realistic picture.


Matt_B said:
Being a motorsport fanatic means that I get along to a fair number of events anyway, from rally stages to track days to circuit races so I figured I might as well take the opportunity to take more photos.
Click to expand...


Matt_B said:
Now I understand that I will have to spend some money to get better equipment, this thread isn’t really about that. Im currently shooting with a 450D but will probably look for a 1D Mk3 come Easter. Thanks to those who gave feedback on my Sigma thread the other day too.
Click to expand...

Matt_B said:
Now the questions start, the races I shot last year were all from behind the fence and whilst my keeper rate was fairly low, some friends ended up buying prints from me as they liked the pics. My first question is, if I wanted to start selling photos, either from behind the fence or in front of it, who can I actually sell them to? By this I mean, there are a select number of motorsport publications in the UK, and a few websites covering the main race series but surely these are covered by the main agencies LAT, Sutton etc?
Click to expand...

you can sell photos to:
publications
agencies (when you get that newsmaking shot they dont get)
teams
drivers
public
sponsors
etc

media such as websites, newspapers and magazines will very rarely pay you though.. they know they can get it for free.
teams and drivers also know they can get it for free.

agencies will pay you for a newsmaking shot, public will pay for prints (make sure you have permission from the organisers), and sponsors also might pay you.

if you are accredited media you have to be careful selling your photos. sometimes the organisers will boot you out if you are selling photos without their permission.

Matt_B said:
I understand its important to start small etc but just wondered how you work your way up the ladder etc? Do I need to be able to write a story as well, therefore providing a feature of the day surrounding one driver perhaps?
Click to expand...

being able to shoot and write stories will definitely give you an advantage. there arent many people that do both, and those that do arent good at both.

Matt_B said:
My apologies if some of these questions seem a little naïve, but im trying to step off on the right foot and your thoughts would be most welcome.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

you've come to the right place :)
 
Gary said:
So if you look at it as a theoretical business model:

year 1:
£4000 outlay on equipment (not including any interest if you borrowed the money) - and £4000 wont get you half as good equipment as the established players.
£1000 on travel and accommodation expenses..
income - probably £0.
So thats a loss of £5000 in year 1

year 2:
£500 on equipment
£1000 expenses
income - probably £0 again

year 3
£500 on equipment
£1000 expenses
income - lets say you now know a few people and earn £100 per race over 10 races = £1000

so over 3 years you've spent £8000 and earned £1000 which is a loss of £7000.

so as you can see, you'll be in profit after about 10 years.

you can sell photos to:
publications
agencies (when you get that newsmaking shot they dont get)
teams
drivers
public
sponsors
etc

media such as websites, newspapers and magazines will very rarely pay you though.. they know they can get it for free.
teams and drivers also know they can get it for free.

agencies will pay you for a newsmaking shot, public will pay for prints (make sure you have permission from the organisers), and sponsors also might pay you.

if you are accredited media you have to be careful selling your photos. sometimes the organisers will boot you out if you are selling photos without their permission.



being able to shoot and write stories will definitely give you an advantage. there arent many people that do both, and those that do arent good at both.



you've come to the right place :)
Click to expand...

Gary, thanks for taking the time to type this. I know that I will need to spend some cash but was planning on doing it slowly rather than all bumped into year 1. I would hope to make 'something' in Year 1 rather than nothing, even if it just covered expenses plus a few ££.

I can write (I like to think) too, but as Andrew says, its alot to think about over the course of a day whilst you're trying to concentrate on the shots.

I can see this will be an uphill struggle, but im determined!
 
Matt_B said:
Gary, thanks for taking the time to type this. I know that I will need to spend some cash but was planning on doing it slowly rather than all bumped into year 1. I would hope to make 'something' in Year 1 rather than nothing, even if it just covered expenses plus a few ££.

I can write (I like to think) too, but as Andrew says, its alot to think about over the course of a day whilst you're trying to concentrate on the shots.

I can see this will be an uphill struggle, but im determined!
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no worries - glad you didnt take it the wrong way.

but just be very aware that there is little or no money in it.
most people make nothing, some people make pocket money, and a very few live off it (and they arent exactly well off).
 
Its not going to be my full time profession by any means, but it would be nice if it could add to the pocket money kitty in some form or another.

When approaching teams, sponsors, whoever, how do you show them your previous work? A3 prints in a folder, link to a website, iPad etc.
 
Matt_B said:
Its not going to be my full time profession by any means, but it would be nice if it could add to the pocket money kitty in some form or another.

When approaching teams, sponsors, whoever, how do you show them your previous work? A3 prints in a folder, link to a website, iPad etc.
Click to expand...

to be honest, i've found that approaching teams is a total and utter waste of time. The only way I've got work is through word of mouth.
you've got to remember that there are so many photographers out there wanting to sell their photos that the potential customers (in my experience) get quite annoyed with photographers trying to sell their work. I've even seen photographers approaching teams with massive portfolios of prints.
unless of course you can find a niche market.

another thing is that you would think covering a big series like Le Mans series or GP2 would be the best way to earn money, but you'll find its easier to make money from the very small series where there arent as many photographers.

but i'm still not sure youre aware of the task ahead. for instance, i'm not bad at this lark, but its taken me 5 years to make a profit worth noticing, and that profit barely pays 6 months of my little boys child care.
 
Gary, thanks again.

I'm ever the optimist on everything in life so im going to give it a good shot. I've got some links with a few teams so will try them first.
 
It takes time. As Gary says. You will need to serve your time earning nothing to build the contacts to start to earn.

This season was my 2nd full season or 3rd year of regular motorsports photography, i made a profit, not much though when you consider trips to Oulton/cadwell/Snetterton. I also camp in the car to save cash and on occasion will work Saturday in Kent then drive up in the morning to a race and drive home for uni/work the next day. I was doing 20-24 hour days for very little money. (this is where sharing the driving/accommodation with a friend can help, i'm fortunate i have a few friends on here who have put me up in exchange for doing the driving)

Be warned its a pretty competitive market, people very rarely pay for photos (you can get free photos from lots of spectators who just like seeing their shots used), those that have paying customers will guard them with their lives. I have approached all the main magazines and lots of the teams, agencies etc.. with no results. Besides LAT and a few small agencies there is nearly no interest in National level Motorsport for stock/agencies. I specialise in BTCC (doing every round this coming yr), and i am yet to find an agency that is interested in images besides those that already have lots of photographers willing to provide them with shots.

If you stick at it and are good (with people and cameras) then you will eventually make something of it. But expect it to take 3-4 years for it to start happening.

Also be aware some series are easier to get into, but are flooded with amateur media giving away photos (so are very hard to sell in - BTCC), others are very hard to get into, and once your there you face other issues such as series regulations that will restrict your selling and maybe even charge you to sell (BSB).

I would do a season of enjoying yourself, shooting your local circuit for a local paper, see which series you enjoy and then follow that. Generally you cant make money from teams if your not at every round, so you need to find one you like.

Think i've gone on enough....
 
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Yes, on that last point its just the same as any other money making photography attempt - focus much more on the business side than the photography side.

You can sell rubbish photos if you try hard enough to sell them, you can't sell excellent photos if you don't put the effort in marketing them.

If you are someone who "doesn't like boring business" and isn't a gregarious, possibly even "pushy", person, you will fall flat on your face with the money making side of it.

One other thing you might also want to consider - if you offered this idea up as an idea to Dragon's Den, they would laugh you off the set. As a business concept, you'd be better off putting in the same hours flipping burgers at MaccyDees - your income would be waaaaay higher.

Do it because you enjoy it would be my advice, not because you think you are gonna get rich!
 
Another thing to consider is that at a race weekend, the teams are actually pretty busy. They have several track sessions to prepare the car for and a series of things that have to be done before and after each session. Getting the opportunity with the right people to show off some photos and talk can be difficult, and what you've discussed may go in one ear and out the other because they're thinking about more pressing matters.
 
If your doing it for money (doesn't sound like you are) consider another sport!

I'd echo everything the others have already said, they are far more experienced/better than me but I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago. It was more accident than intent for me though as I had mates who raced, I had a camera = tickets in return for snaps….over time getting better at it….leading to supplying photos to others…leading to introductions to people who could 'help'…leading to supplying the media and shooting trackside. As the others have stated, my outgoings are FAR greater than any incomings BUT more importantly I have a fantastic time and have made some great friends and had many laughs along the way.

My advice would be start small and aim high. Find a friendly club, get a tent and go for the whole weekend. Club racing by its nature does not have much money floating about but everyone is very friendly and approachable especially after the racing. I would advise against 'cold calling' trying to sell your goods, just make it obvious you're there with a camera. Most teams/riders that have helped me over the years have done so because they know I have a passion for the sport and what I do. If there initial introduction/impression was that I was only there for their money I'm sure that I would have not have had that help. Over time you'll get to know people..they'll get to know why your there and word get around. Getting to know the personalities will also help improve your photography as you start to know who and what to look out for. Some will happily pay you for photos, some will feed you, some will offer you tickets, others will just thank you. Do it for yourself and make sure you enjoy it, getting to know and helping the right people goes a long way, you'd be surprised at how many 'small fish' know 'big fish' ;)

Don't get too hung up on getting trackside (obviously it gives more opportunities, but not always better). As you get better more people will take notice and after time,graft, craft and laughs the opportunities will come - just don't go with the aim of making money as you're unlikely to make much if any at first.

Have a great season Matt, hope it goes well for you! (y)
 
I know we've discussed this many times but its worth saying again:

Gary said:
if you are accredited media you have to be careful selling your photos. sometimes the organisers will boot you out if you are selling photos without their permission.
Click to expand...

Coming back to this point, technically you aren't allowed to carry out commercial photography full stop without explicit permi$$ion.

The back of most motorsport (public) tickets tells you that and pretty much all of the accreditation paperwork has wording along the lines of :

8. Accredited Persons must not use their accreditation for any commercial purpose (including without limitation selling or offering for sale any
items, leafleting or marketing) without the prior written consent of XYZ.
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11. Accredited Persons must not prejudice or infringe the copyright or other intellectual property right owned by, or licensed to XYZ or any other
person or organisation officially involved with the Event. In particular (but without limitation) no Accredited Person shall themselves, or permit any
person to:

(b) sell, license, distribute or otherwise publish, disseminate or reproduce for a commercial purpose (as distinct from editorial purposes), whether
in whole or in part, any still or moving audio-visual, audio-only or visual-only recordings (including without limitation photographs) made inside
any Venue without the prior written consent of XYZ in each case;
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Ok, thats a sample, but most of the others are the same, whether its Maxxis MX or Dorna MotoGP - you are there for editorial purposes not commercial photography.... and you sign a piece of paper to that effect, so you might get spanked :bat:
 
desantnik said:
I know we've discussed this many times but its worth saying again:

The back of most motorsport (public) tickets tells you that and pretty much all of the accreditation paperwork has wording along the lines of :
Click to expand...


but that item number 8 actually means you cant use your ticket to get in there, set up a burger stand and start selling burgers (or anything else)
 
Maybe true, a little abiguity, but 11b delivers a swift and sure kick to the goolies ;-)
 
After 3 years of motorsport photography I've decided to call it a day, for a lot of the reasons mentioned above, but the 2 main ones were that for the series I was working with a drivers partner decided to make it known to people that they would give anyone high res images for free last season, I wonder where all my print sales went...

But the main reason was that rather than it being an extension of my hobby (motorsport and photography) it was feeling more and more like a job. To the point coming up to my 6th weekend away from home in a row, that I didn't want to go, but felt that I had to.

This year I'm concentrating on taking pictures for myself, if I sell any, great if not still great, I have my life back!
 
Craikeybaby said:
After 3 years of motorsport photography I've decided to call it a day, for a lot of the reasons mentioned above, but the 2 main ones were that for the series I was working with a drivers partner decided to make it known to people that they would give anyone high res images for free last season, I wonder where all my print sales went...

But the main reason was that rather than it being an extension of my hobby (motorsport and photography) it was feeling more and more like a job. To the point coming up to my 6th weekend away from home in a row, that I didn't want to go, but felt that I had to.

This year I'm concentrating on taking pictures for myself, if I sell any, great if not still great, I have my life back!
Click to expand...

I was going to say don't quit! But then I started to see where you are coming from. Being away from home is fun to start with but quickly loses appeal.
 
Yeah, didn't fancy doing Anglesey, Croft and Knockhill in the space of 2 months, will be doing local events from the otherside of the fence, for fun :)
 
Whilst I totally understand about "having to" be at events you don't want to be at and also the sometimes hectic schedules it can leave you with (successive weekends and time eaten into filing forms and processing photos), I don't think I'd be without it.

Certainly I do know that when I quit, thats it, I'm not shooting motorsport at all anymore, not for fun even!
 
Its a bit of a juggle, trying to keep it fun, but also make progress.

In my experiance if you want to make progress/make money you need to specialise, be it on a track for location based media or on a series for series based media/competitors. Either way regular appearances are a must, especially for a series.

Personally i love it, whats not to like, taking photos on the weekend in largely speaking great weather of a great race series with who are now a group of my mates. And getting paid.

Just great fun. (maybe i'm just simple minded and easily entertained)
 
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