The Amazing Sony A1/A7/A9/APS-C & Anything else welcome Mega Thread!

snerkler said:
I've just read it on their site. I agree with the part about it might not give an accurate indication of wear/age of the camera but the rest is not right. I can't help but think this is an error as earlier they talk about the mirrorless cameras without mechanical shutters.

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As far as I know, Sony counts shutter actuations - but this is quite different to actual shots taken - as you can have full mechanical, EFCS or full electronic.
As for mirrorless not suffering shutter failures, the 'internet' (which has been known to exaggerate sometimes) would have you believe the A7iii shutter will fail if you just look at it the wrong way...
 
Oh and to add

the sensor readout time is pretty slow on these, approx 1/15s for the A7c II and 1/10s for the A7cR, does this mean..
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No.

Sensor readout doesn’t affect exposure, though it is a limit on maximum FPS.

Readout is the time taken to get the data off each pixel to the ISP.

Indeed many Sony sensors can concurrently capture an exposure whilst the previous is read out.
 
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LeeRatters said:
I literally use one for the majority of my images. I have another which is nice for colourful sunrise and sunset images. I do have a black and white which I rarely use.

So about 3 for me generally.

Plus I have a few which are just one click things for certain things like adding grain only, etc rather than 'editing'
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Mine are set with different combinations of vignette, coloured filter, sharpening, contrast and paper/silver toning. A couple give a vintage look, others give crisp detail while one replicates the responsiveness of vintage film to blue light.

It's just a way to save time juggling sliders, but also serves to give my pictures a more cohesive look than if I started from scratch each time. Previously my mono photo development had no coordination, and trying to curate a set was very difficult without having to reprocess nearly every picture.
 
the_accidental said:
The only issues I've had with mine is when I've left it on and I'm in high frequency flickering lighting like fluorescents and I get banding from the readout.

I've not tried to shoot action with the e-shutter though, I normally shoot with the mechanical shutter. I have shot moving targets (my son) though.

I've not tried a lens faster than 1.4 and that one not extensively at 1.4.

I came to the conclusion that it was something I'd be able to see if I tried to reproduce it or went looking but it'd not be a practical concern and that's bearing out to be true.

I'm quite sensitive (in general) to this sort of thing, as I work with computer vision professionally and so am often dealing with rolling/global shutters and readout issues etc.

There's a related issue where IIRC the mechanical shutter tops out at 1/4000 and beyond that you need to use the e-shutter.

If there's a particular scenario that's common for you and you'd like me to test - I'm happy to try and do so.
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Thanks much appreciated. I wouldn't use the electronic shutter for anything moving.
nandbytes said:
It's fine for static shots and natural lighting. You'll get banding with artificial lights.

Been using EFCS forever, not just me but like rest of the world. Yes you can prove there is impact on bokeh in a lab test but in real world no one notices it or is impacted by it.
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Thanks, banding doesn't worry me as I'd just use the mechanical shutter. So it's a none issue, that's fine then.

TBH I'm doing my own head it at the moment going around in circles with cameras. I've wanted a second body for ages, but recently wanted more lightweight for travel and dog walks etc. I looked at Fuji but have since ruled them out as I wans't impressed with the build quality. I then started looking at the A7c series with the possibility of using some lightweight APS-C lenses for a lightweight package, but then could still use it as a second body with the 35mm f/1.4GM and 50mm f/1.2 GM however there are a few niggles with them which is stopping me, shelling out a couple of grand I'd put up with one or two niggles but not several.

My issues with the A7c series are the VF, single card slot, 1/4000 max shutter (1/8000 electronic), and potentially EFCS only mechanical shutter. That's without handling it, I need to try one to see how it handles, I might be put off straight away.

I then thought what about the A7IV, mid way between my A1 and the A7cR in terms of weight but then I have the issue of 'only' 14mp with APS-C lenses, the flipout screen, and the AF isn't as good as the A7cII or A7cR, although the AF system's not a deal breaker as it'd not be used for demanding stuff. But then again we're looking at a £1500 body (grey) that's not 'perfect'.

So guess what, I started looking at the A7RV, it ticks all the boxes except that it's no lighter than my A1 (well 14g). I could pair it with the 10-20mm f4 and the combo would be 354g lighter than my current wide angle walkaround which is still probably noticeable. Of course I could just stick the 10-20mm on my A1 but then this doesn't resolve my 'issue' of wanting a second body.

I need therapy :runaway: :ROFLMAO:
 
the_accidental said:
Oh and to add



No.

Sensor readout doesn’t affect exposure, though it is a limit on maximum FPS.

Readout is the time taken to get the data off each pixel to the ISP.

Indeed many Sony sensors can concurrently capture an exposure whilst the previous is read out.
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Thanks, I do understand readout in terms of exposure and understand how it's read line by line, and also understand this is why we get rolling shutter. My point was more to do with rolling shutter effects in photos. We know that camera shake can occur at slower shutter speeds, and for example if I was using my 50mm prime at 1/10 I might not get sharp shots if I'm not being careful (not always possible as sometimes we grab shots). If the sensor readout is 'only' 1/10 I was wondering if there's a chance that camera shake could introduce some king of undesirable rolling shutter type effects?
 
I do understand readout in terms of exposure and understand how it's read line by line
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No, that’s not readout. Readout is getting the data off the sensor not exposing the pixels (which is line by line in a rolling shutter sensor).

Readout could be 5 minutes and camera shake wouldn’t be an issue.

Point grey used to have some good diagrams of this wrt the Sony Pregius sensors (though they’re global) I’ll try find one…

Edit: ah wait I see what you’re saying. Not likely from handheld shooting. Presumably you have e shutter as an option on the A1 you could try it?

It’s not a problem with the mechanical shutter though.
 
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snerkler said:
As you know I'm forever trying to find a preset that I like that works for the vast majority of my images, I'm still yet to settle on something and am still looking for that 'holy grail'. I probably have well over 200 presets but don't use them, they're just ones I've tried and dismissed.
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Once I move on or update I just hit the 'delete' button ;)
 
Hang on, I’m assuming the sensor exposure isn’t tied to readout as I know that to be the case on Sony sensors I’ve used before where I’ve had access to that info - but maybe that’s not the case on the A7 series?

Hmm I have access to high rate screens I could devise a test
 
the_accidental said:
No, that’s not readout. Readout is getting the data off the sensor not exposing the pixels (which is line by line in a rolling shutter sensor).

Readout could be 5 minutes and camera shake wouldn’t be an issue.

Point grey used to have some good diagrams of this wrt the Sony Pregius sensors (though they’re global) I’ll try find one…

Edit: ah wait I see what you’re saying. Not likely from handheld shooting. Presumably you have e shutter as an option on the A1 you could try it?

It’s not a problem with the mechanical shutter though.
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The A1’s readout is much faster, so fast that rolling shutter is imperceivable (y) I’ve use e-shutter with a number of cameras but none with a readout as slow as 1/10 I don’t believe.
 
the_accidental said:
Hang on, I’m assuming the sensor exposure isn’t tied to readout as I know that to be the case on Sony sensors I’ve used before where I’ve had access to that info - but maybe that’s not the case on the A7 series?

Hmm I have access to high rate screens I could devise a test
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Each pixel is only exposed to the same exposure, so if you’re shooting at 1/1000 each pixel will be exposed at 1/1000 so you’re not going to get the blurring you would get from camera shake as you would if say shooting handheld at 1s. However, in 1/10 of a second there is a chance that the camera could move and so introduce rolling shutter.

I’m sure the chance of this is pretty slim, but sometimes I’ll quickly grab a shot as I’m moving and it could be an issue.
 
snerkler said:
Thanks much appreciated. I wouldn't use the electronic shutter for anything moving.

Thanks, banding doesn't worry me as I'd just use the mechanical shutter. So it's a none issue, that's fine then.

TBH I'm doing my own head it at the moment going around in circles with cameras. I've wanted a second body for ages, but recently wanted more lightweight for travel and dog walks etc. I looked at Fuji but have since ruled them out as I wans't impressed with the build quality. I then started looking at the A7c series with the possibility of using some lightweight APS-C lenses for a lightweight package, but then could still use it as a second body with the 35mm f/1.4GM and 50mm f/1.2 GM however there are a few niggles with them which is stopping me, shelling out a couple of grand I'd put up with one or two niggles but not several.

My issues with the A7c series are the VF, single card slot, 1/4000 max shutter (1/8000 electronic), and potentially EFCS only mechanical shutter. That's without handling it, I need to try one to see how it handles, I might be put off straight away.

I then thought what about the A7IV, mid way between my A1 and the A7cR in terms of weight but then I have the issue of 'only' 14mp with APS-C lenses, the flipout screen, and the AF isn't as good as the A7cII or A7cR, although the AF system's not a deal breaker as it'd not be used for demanding stuff. But then again we're looking at a £1500 body (grey) that's not 'perfect'.

So guess what, I started looking at the A7RV, it ticks all the boxes except that it's no lighter than my A1 (well 14g). I could pair it with the 10-20mm f4 and the combo would be 354g lighter than my current wide angle walkaround which is still probably noticeable. Of course I could just stick the 10-20mm on my A1 but then this doesn't resolve my 'issue' of wanting a second body.

I need therapy :runaway: :ROFLMAO:
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you certainly have serious 1st world issues :ROFLMAO:

The A7IV, A1, A7RV etc while weighing different are all about the same size. The A7C series are noticeably smaller in hand, its not just about the weight. So keep that in mind.

The 1/4000s is massive put-off for me too. The VF isn't going to be massively better, you'll get incremental improvement but there's only so much they can improve within the given "real estate" and cost boundaries (i.e. needing to keep them cheaper than their respective larger parent).

Given how the market is moving toward stacked sensors (Z6iii, Z8, R5ii etc) I am kinda hoping we will get a A7Ciii which is be a stacked sensor setup with no mechanical shutter. At which point we won't be limited by the 1/4000s shutter speed.

All bodies with dual cards will be large I think. there's isn't much you can do about it, if you are after a smaller+lighter body.
 
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nandbytes said:
you certainly have serious 1st world issues :ROFLMAO:

The A7IV, A1, A7RV etc while weighing different are all about the same size. The A7C series are noticeably smaller in hand, its not just about the weight. So keep that in mind.

The 1/4000s is massive put-off for me too. The VF isn't going to be massively better, you'll get incremental improvement but there's only so much they can improve within the given "real estate" and cost boundaries (i.e. needing to keep them cheaper than their respective larger parent).

Given how the market is moving toward stacked sensors (Z6iii, Z8, R5ii etc) I am kinda hoping we will get a A7Ciii which is be a stacked sensor setup with no mechanical shutter. At which point we won't be limited by the 1/4000s shutter speed.

All bodies with dual cards will be large I think. there's isn't much you can do about it, if you are after a smaller+lighter body.
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Yeah, definitely 1st world issues :ROFLMAO:
 
LeeRatters said:
One of these is a 10 shot 85mm panoramic image on the A7Riii - the other isn't......


*** by Lee, on Flickr


*** by Lee, on Flickr
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Very nice, loving the drone shot.

Is there a reason behind doing a pano with the 85mm rather than a different lens, compression maybe?
 
snerkler said:
Very nice, loving the drone shot.

Is there a reason behind doing a pano with the 85mm rather than a different lens, compression maybe?
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I've been after that drone shot for years & that's the best so far :ROFLMAO:

It's pretty subtle to most people I expect, but yes the compression & look of the stitch is much better than a 35mm shot imo ;)
 
snerkler said:
Yeah, definitely 1st world issues :ROFLMAO:
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I had the same 1st world issue and went for the A7CR as a 2nd body to my A1.

Ran it for a month or so then sold it on.

I didn’t like the EVF, quality or actual eye cup. I don’t know why Sony fix this and don’t allow for an after market or larger eye cup to be fitted.

I also missed a joy stick.

The price difference is about £300 and I think the extra you get from the A7RV is worth the extra ££.

I run type A cards so don’t need different cards as well.

It’s a nice walk around and not overly bulky with the 1.4 GM lenses. Also looking for a wide so either the Sony 20mm or Tamron 20-40mm. Also may pick up a Sony Zeiss 35mm or Sony 24mm f2.8 if I really want to travel lighter.

I’m happy with the A7Rv. Sony A7/A1 are small to start with compared to DSLR’s so not a great weight/size saving.
 
simonbe said:
I had the same 1st world issue and went for the A7CR as a 2nd body to my A1.

Ran it for a month or so then sold it on.

I didn’t like the EVF, quality or actual eye cup. I don’t know why Sony fix this and don’t allow for an after market or larger eye cup to be fitted.

I also missed a joy stick.

The price difference is about £300 and I think the extra you get from the A7RV is worth the extra ££.

I run type A cards so don’t need different cards as well.

It’s a nice walk around and not overly bulky with the 1.4 GM lenses. Also looking for a wide so either the Sony 20mm or Tamron 20-40mm. Also may pick up a Sony Zeiss 35mm or Sony 24mm f2.8 if I really want to travel lighter.

I’m happy with the A7Rv. Sony A7/A1 are small to start with compared to DSLR’s so not a great weight/size saving.
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Thanks, useful info. You've highlighted a concern of mine, sacrificed things to get smaller and ended up not liking them in use and getting rid again. I think as soon as I can get hands on with an A7c body it'll help make my mind up (y)
 
simonbe said:
It’s a nice walk around and not overly bulky with the 1.4 GM lenses. Also looking for a wide so either the Sony 20mm or Tamron 20-40mm. Also may pick up a Sony Zeiss 35mm or Sony 24mm f2.8 if I really want to travel lighter.

I’m happy with the A7Rv. Sony A7/A1 are small to start with compared to DSLR’s so not a great weight/size saving.
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I have those in bold. The 20mm is IMO a very good lens but of limited use for me. I thought the 35mm f2.8 was very good too until I got the 40mm f2.5 which is IMO even better. I find the 24mm f2.8 very good but I do prefer the 28-50mm range. I wish Sony would retire the old 35mm f2.8 and replace it with a new mini G 35mm f2.5/f2.8 as good as the 40mm f2.5.
 
soon as I can get hands on with an A7c body
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An important thing to think about when you do, is with the small cameras it's as much about carrying it when you're _not_ shooting with it as shooting. Maybe bring your A1 and relevant lenses to compare the setup size?

E.g. for me, a _huge_ plus of the C is that with a small lens on it'll fit in the pockets of 3 jackets I wear most commonly, and also fits in a couple bags alongside other daily clobber. So one of the first things I tested was "will it go in my pocket" - would've been game-over for me if it didn't. It's also quite light, depending on lens - worn on a cross body strap it just "disappears" when slung round my back (and will sit under a coat etc. if needed).

On handling, I have recently got a plate for mine (a cheap Neewer one) which gives a bit more height to the grip. This handles better when I have larger lenses on it and it's being a "big" camera as my pinky can rest there. Comes off easily when it needs to be compact too.
 
Toby, you could always have my original a9 as your 2nd camera
 
the_accidental said:
An important thing to think about when you do, is with the small cameras it's as much about carrying it when you're _not_ shooting with it as shooting. Maybe bring your A1 and relevant lenses to compare the setup size?

E.g. for me, a _huge_ plus of the C is that with a small lens on it'll fit in the pockets of 3 jackets I wear most commonly, and also fits in a couple bags alongside other daily clobber. So one of the first things I tested was "will it go in my pocket" - would've been game-over for me if it didn't. It's also quite light, depending on lens - worn on a cross body strap it just "disappears" when slung round my back (and will sit under a coat etc. if needed).

On handling, I have recently got a plate for mine (a cheap Neewer one) which gives a bit more height to the grip. This handles better when I have larger lenses on it and it's being a "big" camera as my pinky can rest there. Comes off easily when it needs to be compact too.
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Well I've just been to try the A7cR and I've ruled it out, as a left eye shooter the viewfinder is no good, I can't get my eye up close to see it without really crunching it up. Also I compared it to an A1 (not mine as it's on it's way back to Sony again) and picking one up after the other I could barely tell any weight difference which was odd as I'm sure I'd feel 200g. Maybe it's the larger grip or weight distribution of the A1 but I was surprised nonetheless.

I think I'm going to go with the A7RV and put some APS-C glass on when I want to save weight.
 
snerkler said:
Well I've just been to try the A7cR and I've ruled it out, as a left eye shooter the viewfinder is no good, I can't get my eye up close to see it without really crunching it up. Also I compared it to an A1 (not mine as it's on it's way back to Sony again) and picking one up after the other I could barely tell any weight difference which was odd as I'm sure I'd feel 200g. Maybe it's the larger grip or weight distribution of the A1 but I was surprised nonetheless.

I think I'm going to go with the A7RV and put some APS-C glass on when I want to save weight.
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Do you really need a second body for hobbyist stuff? Surely when you get your other camera sorted there will be no need for the other?
 
f/2.8 said:
Do you really need a second body for hobbyist stuff? Surely when you get your other camera sorted there will be no need for the other?
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I don't "need" one no :LOL:
 
Toby.

Instead of a camera how about a bag? You can't have too many bags.

I really like that last Billingham I bought. I like it better than the smaller Hadley Pro small.
 
LeeRatters said:
I didn't know whether to :oops: :$ or :ROFLMAO: to that Alan!
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I'll explain :D In the past I was tied to the house a lot as I was a full time carer for my mam and could only really go out for an hour or two at the most if we were having a good day or if one of my sisters ungraciously and begrudgingly agreed to cover for me. How long before an elderly person has to go upstairs to the toilet? That's the sort of clock my life ran to. Plus of course I got married and Mrs WW needs some attention and I just can't get her interested in photography. My photography hobby still existed when I had other priorities and couldn't get out much so I enjoyed researching lenses, finding nice copies and testing them and then using them when I could get out. It was a relatively cheap way of giving me an interest whilst I was at home and a way of keeping the hobby alive.

Those days are sadly gone now. I've sold some cameras (including one to you) and lenses on this site and I've just today boxed up a lot of my film era lenses and they'll be going as soon as the shop sends me a bar code. Maybe 20 or so. I'm keeping the above cameras but I could I suppose sell the TZ and one GX. I've also sold some MFT lenses on this forum. I'm keeping all of my Sony fit lenses except for the 28-60mm and the Pergear 35mm f1.4 which were both sold. I'm also keeping about a dozen film era lenses for fun and sentimental reasons and because frankly I was offered next to nothing for them so I might as well keep them and enjoy them whenever.

Recently and this also goes back to when my mam was alive I've found myself wanting to get back to simplicity, hence the 35 or 40 or maybe 28 or 50mm lens and nothing else. I used to take maybe two, three or four lenses out as well as the one on the camera but I've only taken more than the lens on the camera out once in the last year or so although I did take the A7 with 24mm and A7III and 40mm out the other week and I did enjoy that.

Things I could probably sell... 28-70mm f3.5-5.6, 35, 55 and 85mm f1.8's, 28mm f2, maybe the 35mm f2.8 and maybe a couple of Voigtlanders as I have two 35's and two 50's but I don't need the money so I might as well keep them for the twice a decade I'll use them.
 
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woof woof said:
Toby.

Instead of a camera how about a bag? You can't have too many bags.

I really like that last Billingham I bought. I like it better than the smaller Hadley Pro small.
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I've got too many bags :LOL:
 
snerkler said:
Posh bags add too much weight ;)
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I was surprised by my new Billingham as it's bigger than the "small" but it is surprisingly more comfortable to wear I suppose because it's not the more compact lump that the small is and can mold a bit to my body shape rather than just bounce about like the small does.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Got to be honest, the idea of spending even £50on a camera bag seems weird, let alone several times that. But if you enjoy it..... ;)
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Some people would say that about cameras. Billingham bags are expensive but they're made in the UK not China and if not terribly abused they'll last decades. My oldest is 11 years old and it still looks like new. I have a Lowepro which is a couple of years older but it looks its age, in fact it looks ready for the bin and it has done for 10 years.
 
woof woof said:
I was surprised by my new Billingham as it's bigger than the "small" but it is surprisingly more comfortable to wear I suppose because it's not the more compact lump that the small is and can mold a bit to my body shape rather than just bounce about like the small does.
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I have two different size temba sling bags which for me are the most comfortable, although in the summer they give you a sweaty back :puke:

I have a small think tank shoulder bag that I quite like that’s just big enough for my camera with 20-70mm attached and 16-35mm at the side, or vice versa.

I then have a Temba backpack and a manfrotto long shoulder bag for use with tele lenses. So not that many really. Oh I also have the PD slide strap and the PD slide light strap (y)
 
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I have 7 Bags….. 2 rucksack type and the rest shoulder bags. Wait a minute, no sling bags… hmmm
 
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