Tokyo_Subway

[BillN_33]

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think

Technical?
Subject matter?
Processing?
Should I have taken it?

The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated, (slider moved completely to the left in LR) - no adjustments apart from a very slight crop

Nikon D750 + Nikon 50mm f/1.8 @f8 - ISO 8000 - (so LR says - ISO was on Auto)

 

[Pound Coin]

OK - here are some thoughts.

I am left wondering about the chap on the right with the umbrella, and wonder if the composition could have lost the feet on the left and included the umbrella man. Then there would be the man with the bags and the man with the umbrella, framing the woman who is trying to stay out of it.

I like the processing.

 

[Marino]

I’m looking the picture from my phone and completely missed the person bending down on the bags.
Maybe a tighter frame to make the viewer focus more on the “subject”?
I’m also doing street photo so I understand it’s not as easy to get closer without risking getting caught and eventually missing that spontaneous scene.
I keep telling my self I need to get closer(but I rarely do…).
It’s like I see an opportunity for a picture, I know I need to take it but when I look at it after it’s not what I felt at the moment. Most of the time its because i didn’t get close enough.
It could also be a case of taking the picture from a different angle.

 

[Raincloud]

You definitely on the right track there!

 

[Merlin5]

Very good photo.

 

[BillN_33]

Thanks guys - a few comment from me for what they are worth

If I can just make a suggestion - maybe what some/many feels that they would like is more DISCUSSION on what’s posted, (maybe it's the word "critique" that could imply criticism?) - discussion - maybe not as much as what's below but just a few ideas of areas

The situation
I missed the guy with the umbrella - or probably did not see him
As an after thought I wanted to leave the feet on the LHS
I have been to Tokyo many times in the past, (but my last visit was 6 years ago, when this image was taken - maybe go again but I am now in my later 70's so I think that there are easier places to fly to,
what surprised me was how un-crowded the train was - I got a seat!
We generally do not associate Japan with homeless people on the street, but there are quite a few
This shot was taken with a Nikon DSLR - which would have been noticable - what I see all the time, (more and more these days with people always looking at their mobile phone), is that people are just too busy to notice you or what's around them - no one seemed to notice or care about this guy who appeared to be asleep. Same experience when I was in Italy a few weeks ago - I could almost walk up to people and take the shot as they were in their own "mobile world"
I took a few shots and this was part of a series

B & W
I was reading last night that B & W shots should (generally) show every shade from black to white and not allow black to dominate, but what does anyone know???
The B & W conversion was just standard Lightroom
The more "street" shots that I have taken, not sure I like the word "street," the more I have been pushed to B & W and even thought about getting a Monochrom camera - I'd say 95% of my "street" shots are B & W, just seems to be the natural medium to use
Apparently, if you are "good" you are supposed to see B & W shots in your mind before/when you take the image, I never really do, I just take colour shots and then process them as B & W

Cropping
I quite like square, 1 x 1 images but again I read that 2 x 3 images appear more to the sub-conscious, (not sure who worked that out!!) - I crop and use all sizes, but I try to keep to the standard sizes

but here's a different "colour" one I took a couple of weeks ago

 

[benc98]

Should I have taken it?
I see no reason why not, there's a long and rich tradition of photographs made on the subway. Famously, Bruce Davidson, Walker Evans + many more! Do check them out. David Kessel had a photo recently that was very highly regarded and provoked a discussion in some places about the ethics of it - https://www.progresfestival.com/virtual-guests/subway-by-paul-kessel

There's some strong story telling going on, all those bags and the forward learning figure, together they help tell a story, or at least give us a clue of what the story could be. This is what your second photo misses imo - there aren't many elements that point to a story and there is nothing that stops me to spend time investigating the photo some more - whereas the leaning figure and the bags do make me stop.

 

[gramps]

I am left wondering about the chap on the right with the umbrella, and wonder if the composition could have lost the feet on the left and included the umbrella man. Then there would be the man with the bags and the man with the umbrella, framing the woman who is trying to stay out of it.

I agree with this but I would lose everything to the left of the right edge of the next carriage.
So 'my' image would try to include 'umbrella man' and only the right-hand side of the carriage - the interest is the man with his head in the bag (priceless!) and the accepting couple either side of him. IMO the desaturation slider isn't processing, it's a quick fix ... ideally work on the colours and convert to B&W

 

[BillN_33]

Should I have taken it?
I see no reason why not, there's a long and rich tradition of photographs made on the subway. Famously, Bruce Davidson, Walker Evans + many more! Do check them out. David Kessel had a photo recently that was very highly regarded and provoked a discussion in some places about the ethics of it - https://www.progresfestival.com/virtual-guests/subway-by-paul-kessel

There's some strong story telling going on, all those bags and the forward learning figure, together they help tell a story, or at least give us a clue of what the story could be. This is what your second photo misses imo - there aren't many elements that point to a story and there is nothing that stops me to spend time investigating the photo some more - whereas the leaning figure and the bags do make me stop.

What I saw in the second image which I would describe as "deep in thought" is compassion from the woman to the older man - maybe she was his daughter - but I could not record what I saw earlier - the man had a letter which he took out of his pocket and read a number of times...........I think that he was on his way to a meeting or appointment (I could be completely wrong but as I said I could not really record this)

 

[BillN_33]

I agree with this but I would lose everything to the left of the right edge of the next carriage.
So 'my' image would try to include 'umbrella man' and only the right-hand side of the carriage - the interest is the man with his head in the bag (priceless!) and the accepting couple either side of him. IMO the desaturation slider isn't processing, it's a quick fix ... ideally work on the colours and convert to B&W

Thanks Roger, I can see that, but did not see the umbrella man when I took the image

I do not normally de-saturate - I wanted to keep the images as simple as possible and I included it in this way to cause "discussion" on how people process B & W images - I normally take a virtual copy in LR and then process that as B & W - but I have started using my M8 in the B & W mode as I have read that the CCD sensor produced good B & W images ....... but I think the serious solution is an expensive Monochrom camera, (the Q2 Monochrom - £££££)

But the purpose of the thread is to try to get more discussion going on all images that are posted in the comment section - maybe people are just holding back

 

[benc98]

What I saw in the second image which I would describe as "deep in thought" is compassion from the woman to the older man - maybe she was his daughter - but I could not record what I saw earlier - the man had a letter which he took out of his pocket and read a number of times...........I think that he was on his way to a meeting or appointment (I could be completely wrong but as I said I could not really record this)

I guess that's the challenge, how can you capture deep thought and compassion through a photograph so that a stranger (on of us) reads the photograph and get's it.. capturing gesture/movement helps? a small gesture goes a long way - the woman reaching out a touching the mans leg /knee while he's reading the letter. I guess it didn't happen, but I think we as viewers need something read or decode in order to tell the story you saw.

 

[gramps]

Thanks Roger, I can see that, but did not see the umbrella man when I took the image

I do not normally de-saturate - I wanted to keep the images as simple as possible and I included it in this way to cause "discussion" on how people process B & W images - I normally take a virtual copy in LR and then process that as B & W - but I have started using my M8 in the B & W mode as I have read that the CCD sensor produced good B & W images ....... but I think the serious solution is an expensive Monochrom camera, (the Q2 Monochrom - £££££

A monochrome camera lets in more light as the colours ‘filter’ is removed. I use RAW + jpeg with the jpeg set to a mono option. This lets you see in mono (particularly good for ‘seeing’ the light) whilst keeping the RAW to process in colour or mono.
I like the idea of a mono camera but I am not sure that I would want to be restricted to it.

I agree that a return to constructive critique, (not destructive, there is no credit in belittling people, as has occurred in the past). However it needs to be understood that crit is probably 99% opinion and 1% actual valuable teaching in a forum like this. Each one should feel free to accept critique or ignore it, without being accused of being a ‘dummy-spitter’!

 

[Merlin5]

What I saw in the second image which I would describe as "deep in thought" is compassion from the woman to the older man - maybe she was his daughter - but I could not record what I saw earlier - the man had a letter which he took out of his pocket and read a number of times...........I think that he was on his way to a meeting or appointment (I could be completely wrong but as I said I could not really record this)

You need to keep in mind that whatever narrative you have in your mind about a scene, is it likely to translate to your viewers? In this instance it doesn't, we just see three regular passengers on the train doing nothing. Your first photo however is compelling because there's an obvious funny moment and lots of potential narratives.

 

[gramps]

You need to keep in mind that whatever narrative you have in your mind about a scene, is it likely to translate to your viewers?

I wonder if this might not be one of the most difficult things to take onboard ... I know that in many of my photos it is certainly a factor.

 

[Merlin5]

I wonder if this might not be one of the most difficult things to take onboard ... I know that in many of my photos it is certainly a factor.

Yeah it's definitely something easily overlooked. I think the key is to always to take a step back and try and look at our work objectively. Temporarily forget the narrative/story we have in our minds about a particular photo we took and try to look at it as if with the eyes of someone viewing our photo who wasn't there when the shutter was pressed. What then do we see in the photo? If it's something obvious that matches our narrative, great, but if not and we think the photo would need explaining, then it hasn't worked.

 

[delb0y]

Regarding the first image - I think it's an excellent capture, and I like the framing, Were you to crop out the legs on the left hand side you'd lose the people in the next carriage and, for me, they add to the interest in the way they're all also ignoring the guy with his head in the bags. I'd actually like to see this in colour before making a judgement on B&W or colour. I'm starting to appreciate colour a lot more, even in "street" photos that are traditionally B&W. I've no idea what colours were on show here, but it would be good to see,and I have a feeling they may add rather than detract. I'm liking the strong diagonal composition and, interestingly, as my eyes travel along it, I "discover" another character with her head down, and then yet another (although not so pronounced) - a sort of repetition along that diagonal. I also like the guy on his tablet ignoring everything - and there's the unspoken fact that they're all ignoring you with your big DSLR, too!

An excellent street style shot, that I'd have been delighted with.

On the other hand, the second one feels like it's lacking in any key moment. If - and we'll never know - the two main characters are a couple, and they have just "had words" then there would be some frisson to the moment, but as far as we know they are just complete strangers in their own respective worlds. The framing is good, but there needs to be something else, I feel. (Had you caught him reading the letter it may have been a different story).

Regarding 1x1 and 2x3, I try and stick to regular sizes, too - although I have a fondness for the cinematic sizes which I think, comes back to some association with movies, and therefore stories. But if I need to crop to something irregular then I have no hesitation in doing so, if the image becomes stronger.

Derek

 

[Cockney]

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think

Technical?
Subject matter?
Processing?
Should I have taken it?

The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated, (slider moved completely to the left in LR) - no adjustments apart from a very slight crop

Nikon D750 + Nikon 50mm f/1.8 @f8 - ISO 8000 - (so LR says - ISO was on Auto)

I think it's really interesting. The scene, the people, the shopping.

 

[Cockney]

Thanks guys - a few comment from me for what they are worth

If I can just make a suggestion - maybe what some/many feels that they would like is more DISCUSSION on what’s posted, (maybe it's the word "critique" that could imply criticism?) - discussion - maybe not as much as what's below but just a few ideas of areas

The situation
I missed the guy with the umbrella - or probably did not see him
As an after thought I wanted to leave the feet on the LHS
I have been to Tokyo many times in the past, (but my last visit was 6 years ago, when this image was taken - maybe go again but I am now in my later 70's so I think that there are easier places to fly to,
what surprised me was how un-crowded the train was - I got a seat!
We generally do not associate Japan with homeless people on the street, but there are quite a few
This shot was taken with a Nikon DSLR - which would have been noticable - what I see all the time, (more and more these days with people always looking at their mobile phone), is that people are just too busy to notice you or what's around them - no one seemed to notice or care about this guy who appeared to be asleep. Same experience when I was in Italy a few weeks ago - I could almost walk up to people and take the shot as they were in their own "mobile world"
I took a few shots and this was part of a series

B & W
I was reading last night that B & W shots should (generally) show every shade from black to white and not allow black to dominate, but what does anyone know???
The B & W conversion was just standard Lightroom
The more "street" shots that I have taken, not sure I like the word "street," the more I have been pushed to B & W and even thought about getting a Monochrom camera - I'd say 95% of my "street" shots are B & W, just seems to be the natural medium to use
Apparently, if you are "good" you are supposed to see B & W shots in your mind before/when you take the image, I never really do, I just take colour shots and then process them as B & W

Cropping
I quite like square, 1 x 1 images but again I read that 2 x 3 images appear more to the sub-conscious, (not sure who worked that out!!) - I crop and use all sizes, but I try to keep to the standard sizes

but here's a different "colour" one I took a couple of weeks ago

I love this one. I want to know the context. Is it a train, hovercraft, boat.
My only niggle is the pole on the left is not straight up.

 

[BillN_33]

I love this one. I want to know the context. Is it a train, hovercraft, boat.
My only niggle is the pole on the left is not straight up.

Thanks Brian

It is a pubic "water taxi" a "A vaporetto" in Italian - Euros 35 for a 2 day pass - a bit like a London Bus, stops everywherre - you can go anywhere in and around Venice - this is on a trip back from Torcello which is 90 mins from the main centre, (St Marks square) - so we had quite a lot of time on the boat - the seats are for the "over 70's" invalids and the like - so we always got a seat! - the pole, I'm not sure that it was vertical, it's Italy!!

 

[Cockney]

You need to keep in mind that whatever narrative you have in your mind about a scene, is it likely to translate to your viewers? In this instance it doesn't, we just see three regular passengers on the train doing nothing. Your first photo however is compelling because there's an obvious funny moment and lots of potential narratives.

There are 5 passengers, and it's not a train.