What is your experience regarding updates by APPLE?

[gerards artzone]

I'm starting to get sick of the enormous flow of Windows updates that, much more often than years ago, completely mess up all kinds of settings, erase items completely or suddenly change the color and design of maps, buttoms, text etc.

After yesterday's update by Microsoft, a photo editing program suddenly had stopped working, the general color of all pages was changed in a black background, instead of the chosen default white preference, plus the complete structure/layouts of all my folders and sub-folders in the so-called library changed to something I didn't want at all, strangely enough the screen (photo) background I chose was suddenly gone and nowhere to be found on my laptop.

This makes me very tired, because this year I've already had to restore everything three times. It's also remarkable that more and more parts in Windows 11 can no longer be restored as an option. Microsoft Windows has been an annoyance to me for quite long and I have been thinking about switching to Apple for some time now, but I don't know exactly what Apple's approach to updates is and whether it causes the same kind of damage Windows11 does after each update?

Since December last year I've almost abandoned 'photography' out of my life after 56 years and have moved on to digital art and design.
It's my intention to buy several, quite expensive CAD/CAM programs, take several courses and to be honest I don't find Windows reliable enough to use.
Years ago I also ran Linux on a desktop for a while, but I'm not convinced of it and ultimately the choice remains for Apple, I guess...
I also doubt whether I will go back to a desktop after years, what would be your opinion of an Apple desktop compared to a laptop?

It's clear to me that several members here on the forum use an Apple and I'm actually curious how satisfied or dissatisfied everyone is with his or her Apple equipment. Thanks in advance for your input!

Gerard

 

[lindsay]

I've always preferred Apple since switching about 15 years ago. There are still occasionally OS updates that stop applications working, so you do need to be cautious before updating, but this is typically only once or twice a year at most for a major update, you just need to check your favourite apps are updated for the new OS version.
Kit-wise, I'd recommend the Apple Mac mini best version you can, ie M2 processor and as much memory as you can afford. Then buy a couple of really good screens to connect to it, to give you plenty of screen real estate for what you want to do. You can pretty much guarantee that spending £3-4k on all of this will last you at least 10 years with no problems.
Others will have more specific opinions no doubt, but I've never regretted the move, whilst I still have to use Windows machines for work reluctantly.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I find Apple OS updates less intrusive and also less frequent, it is still there once a couple of months or something with a big one and every couple of years they drop a new OS. Everything is done with 1 click, my experience is that it always worked and it will update to the new OS for a lot of years. My 2018 MBP is running on the latest Mac OS that is for Apple silicon. Even my 2012 iMac runs Catalina.

I think the sweet spot right now would be the Base Studio, it comes with 32G of RAM, 512 SSD. I would wait for the M3 of that when it comes out, probably 6 months time along with the the Mini.

I find Adobe updates their apps far more, like every week i will have something on LR, PS, Illustrator or InDesign, or Camera Raw. There is always something to update on Adobe.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I've always preferred Apple since switching about 15 years ago.

Me too.

Because of my job, I've been "multilingual" for more than 40 years, using MS-DOS/Windows, Macintosh and Unix/Linux for desktop work. Since the introduction of OS-X to the Macintosh series, I've found it significantly more usable than the other two desktop environments.

My default tip to every new user of the Mac series is "buy a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner and one or more external drives, at least as big as your main drive, then use them at least once a day". This has got me out of trouble more times than I can say.

Updates on OS-X just happen, often in the background. I've never had a problem.

As to doing graphic work on a laptop: I do all my image work on Macs with small screens but I'm not a perfectionist. My wife, who is, uses screens bigger than 30 inches. Longevity? Here's my 2011 Macbook, which has been my main server for several years now...

 

[Raymond Lin]

The other thing I notice is that new OS doesn’t slow down general performance, normally you expect more bloat and the whole thing chugs the older it is but it still boots up the same amount of time.

 

[Nikon f1.8]

Depends on what you intend using it for. If it is solely for CAD/CAM then you could use a MacBook Pro and hook it up to a monitor. That gives you the best of both worlds, portability and screen real estate. My 16" M1 MacBook Pro can run dual monitors if that is any help, and they are coming down in price since the M3 is now out.

Not familiar with the apps you will use but I use Adobe CC's 4 apps plus Capture one and both my M1 Macs fly through what I do.

 

[garryknight]

The major updates to MacOS come once a year, usually announced in September and available to install within a month or so after. They're often followed within weeks by a couple of smaller security updates after last-minute bugs or exploits are found by early adopters. After that there are usually something like 4-6 updates per year, each of which is delivered these days as what's sometimes referred to as a delta package - ie only the bits that have changed.

You can set all of these updates to run overnight. And updates are usually available for 6-7 years, with additional security updates for some years afterwards.

Right now the Mac Mini M2 and M2 Pro are powerful machines that cost a lot less than a MacBook and can be used with your existing monitor and peripherals.

 

[ancient_mariner]

It's clear to me that several members here on the forum use an Apple and I'm actually curious how satisfied or dissatisfied everyone is with his or her Apple equipment. Thanks in advance for your input!

TBH the behaviour you describe is not something that I have ever seen with a windows update, and find it odd to say the least. Perhaps you would prefer Apple.

 

[JohnMcL7]

TBH the behaviour you describe is not something that I have ever seen with a windows update, and find it odd to say the least. Perhaps you would prefer Apple.

Me neither across many Windows machines but I'm not sure if they're complaining about actual problems or changes in the operating system that they don't like? In which case given Apple's approach to updates where you're forced to do it their way at times I wonder if it's the right option.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Me neither across many Windows machines ...

My wife has had a few problems with updates for applications, applied to a fresh install of Windows 11 on her new Beelink machine, during the last few months. There were also a couple of OS oddnesses,

My Acer Travelmate also hiccoughed when I dumped its Linux OS and changed it for Windows 11, using the Acer code, about 6 months ago. On the other hand, my LG 17 sailed through the update from Windows 10 to 11, once LG released their kit.

I wonder if the problems are with systems running generic Windows installs, rather than manufacturer tweaked ones?

 

[Cobra]

TBH the behaviour you describe is not something that I have ever seen with a windows update, and find it odd to say the least.

I was just about to post the same.
I don't like W11 I bought a W10 laptop to get me out of trouble, when my W7 desk top crashed ( its all sorted)
The worse thing it did to me, I was just getting the hang of W10, when it updated without asking to W11.
Did I mention I don't like W11?

 

[Raymond Lin]

I was just about to post the same.
I don't like W11 I bought a W10 laptop to get me out of trouble, when my W7 desk top crashed ( its all sorted)
The worse thing it did to me, I was just getting the hang of W10, when it updated without asking to W11.
Did I mention I don't like W11?

You know something…I don’t think I’ve ever come across anyone saying they don’t like the latest version of Mac OS, they seem to evolve rather than trying to revolutionise the system. Small quality of life changes over the years. If I use my Catalina and then go switch to my MBP with Sonoma the fundamentals are the same and there are lots of familiarity between them.

 

[Cobra]

You know something…I don’t think I’ve ever come across anyone saying they don’t like the latest version of Mac OS,

I don't like apple products.
The only one I own is an old iPod.

In reality, I think they are (all) too expensive.
And I really CBA to learn a new operating system, but as I understand it Windows is becoming more and more like a mac,
with each new update. / upgrade.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't like apple products.
The only one I own is an old iPod.

In reality, I think they are (all) too expensive.
And I really CBA to learn a new operating system, but as I understand it Windows is becoming more and more like a mac,
with each new update. / upgrade.

A Mac Mini is under £600, choose your monitor and it will be faster than any £600 windows machine on the planet.

Some of the products are cheap, not all are expensive.

Sure they make you upgrade extra 8G of ram for £200 but even at that point you are still have a super fast machine than any same price windows base system that will last a decade.

 

[Cobra]

A Mac Mini is under £600, choose your monitor and it will be faster than any £600 windows machine on the planet.

I did look and it doesn't even come close to what I have now.
and of course factor in the fact that I will need new software, and some that I have won't work on a mac,
No thanks I'll stick to what I have, and when that dies it'll be a new Windows machine.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

...but as I understand it Windows is becoming more and more like a mac, with each new update. / upgrade.

It is.

For me, the most important upgrade is that Windows can now host Linux.

For years, my main reason for having a Mac was that I could run up the terminal, work in Unix, save the work and access it from the Mac desktop, for example: emailing, adding to a document or processing in a spreadsheet. Also, working from terminal mode made communicating with minis and mainframes a lot easier (yes, I did use Putty as well but I find it harder to get the data into Windows). Now, the difference, for me at least, is far less.

Pity all this didn't happen before I retired!

 

[Cobra]

For me, the most important upgrade is that Windows can now host Linux.

For years, my main reason for having a Mac was that I could run up the terminal, work in Unix, save the work and access it from the Mac desktop, for example: emailing, adding to a document or processing in a spreadsheet. Also, working from terminal mode made communicating with minis and mainframes a lot easier (yes, I did use Putty as well but I find it harder to get the data into Windows). Now, the difference, for me at least, is far less.

I didn't understand any of that

 

[Raymond Lin]

I did look and it doesn't even come close to what I have now.
and of course factor in the fact that I will need new software, and some that I have won't work on a mac,
No thanks I'll stick to what I have, and when that dies it'll be a new Windows machine.

I’m not asking you to swap, but just illustrating that it is not ALL expensive. The value in a Mac Mini is unparalleled in a windows machine IMO. I can spend £150 on a good PSU, £100 on a good case, £50 on fans and we are at 50% of the budget of a Mac Mini and not even have any core computer components.

So, the image that all Macs are expensive is simply incorrect.

 

[Sangoma]

I don't like apple products.
The only one I own is an old iPod.

In reality, I think they are (all) too expensive.
And I really CBA to learn a new operating system, but as I understand it Windows is becoming more and more like a mac,
with each new update. / upgrade.

I don't like them either!

I had to use one when the workplace bought a lot of ipads.
All supposed to be simple to run and administer. Total nightmare, after having the Apple trained specialist try for two months to get things to work, on the day they staff were all relying on them eventually being in use, things didn't work.

I ditched their system and installed Meraki on them all administered from a MS server.

Tried to get the apple system working several times, used to run in circles with keychain (?) errors, re-installed, went through everything with them on the phone, never did what it was supposed to.

Other people in similar positions seemed to have headaches with it too.

Though on the plus side, my son could play with a iphone and make it do things well before he was 2 years old, of course he couldn't read anything

I guess apple would be fine if your OK with being dictated to and do things their way only, but as you say, windoze is heading that way too.
They want to take any access to basic functions away from the user, and of course monetise.

The problems with Affinity 2 showed this up, and the limitations of using "apps" instead of normally installed programmes.

Try getting certain files of an ipad pro ! Files you create with software on the ipad, you're locked into their way of doing things, and have to rely on someone creating a way to do it, or living with their way.

When the the apple 2e came out, people referred to it as a fruit and a games machine, my feelings haven't changed.

 

[gerards artzone]

Depends on what you intend using it for. If it is solely for CAD/CAM then you could use a MacBook Pro and hook it up to a monitor. That gives you the best of both worlds, portability and screen real estate. My 16" M1 MacBook Pro can run dual monitors if that is any help, and they are coming down in price since the M3 is now out.

Not familiar with the apps you will use but I use Adobe CC's 4 apps plus Capture one and both my M1 Macs fly through what I do.

I get interesting feedback on this forum, but I'm afraid the choice won't be that simple. In addition to the complete Adobe suit, I want to work with Autocad (interior design and metal applications with glass) and Rhinoseros (back to my old love of jewelry design, but in a modern version with titanium, zirconium, etc.), plus drawing tablet XP-PEN Artist 22R Pro.

 

[gerards artzone]

A Mac Mini is under £600, choose your monitor and it will be faster than any £600 windows machine on the planet.

Some of the products are cheap, not all are expensive.

Sure they make you upgrade extra 8G of ram for £200 but even at that point you are still have a super fast machine than any same price windows base system that will last a decade.

Yes, the Mac mini was mentioned here, it looks interesting and especially because I read that you don't necessarily have to buy a Mac monitor (almost €1800 in the Netherlands), because I do a lot with a drawing tablet, a reasonable third-party party monitor will also work out well.

 

[Cobra]

So, the image that all Macs are expensive is simply incorrect.

Maybe not, but to match or get close to what I have now would be about 3 x the cost.

 

[Nikon f1.8]

I get interesting feedback on this forum, but I'm afraid the choice won't be that simple. In addition to the complete Adobe suit, I want to work with Autocad (interior design and metal applications with glass) and Rhinoseros (back to my old love of jewelry design, but in a modern version with titanium, zirconium, etc.), plus drawing tablet XP-PEN Artist 22R Pro.

Adobe CC full suite will work on a Mac, no need to purchase again, just log into your adobe account and download all the apps you need. You are allowed installation on 2 computers.
Autocad and Rhinoceros is also available although I don't know if they are transferable, if it is just a licence then I don't see why not though.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Maybe not, but to match or get close to what I have now would be about 3 x the cost.

I am merely comment more of the fact that you put the word (all) in brackets, if you had put (some), then it would have had a point.

Just not “all” macs.

 

[Cobra]

I am merely comment more of the fact that you put the word (all) in brackets, if you had put (some), then it would have had a point.

Just not “all” macs.

My laptop (W11) pretty much matches the mini mac, at about about half that price, so I stand by what I said.
And of course that can also be hooked up to my monitor

 

[Raymond Lin]

My laptop (W11) pretty much matches the minimac, at about about half that price, so I stand by what I said.

Your £300 laptop is on the same level as a M2 Mac mini?

I need proof! (I take “matches” as within 10% performances)

Got any links? Or simple Geekbench score would do, I can find geekbench score on a M2 Mac mini easy enough.

Even though I know geekbench is not be all and end all…

Mac mini (2023) Benchmarks - Geekbench

What’s your £300 laptop score?

 

[Cobra]

Your £300 laptop is faster than a M2 Mac mini?

I need proof!

Maybe not quite as fast, speed isn't everything but it still does everything I need.
And as you mentioned just like the mac it can be expanded.

When I upgraded my Windows PC a while ago it was a massive upgrade for around £300.

I'm happy for you, that you are a fanboy, but not everyone is or wants to be

 

[Stephen L]

I've always preferred Apple since switching about 15 years ago. There are still occasionally OS updates that stop applications working, so you do need to be cautious before updating, but this is typically only once or twice a year at most for a major update, you just need to check your favourite apps are updated for the new OS version.
Kit-wise, I'd recommend the Apple Mac mini best version you can, ie M2 processor and as much memory as you can afford. Then buy a couple of really good screens to connect to it, to give you plenty of screen real estate for what you want to do. You can pretty much guarantee that spending £3-4k on all of this will last you at least 10 years with no problems.
Others will have more specific opinions no doubt, but I've never regretted the move, whilst I still have to use Windows machines for work reluctantly.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Maybe not quite as fast, speed isn't everything but it still does everything I need.
And as you mentioned just like the mac it can be expanded.

When I upgraded my Windows PC a while ago it was a massive upgrade for around £300.

When you upgraded your windows machine…upgraded a £1000/£2000 windows machine?

In talking about starting from scratch, spending £2k a couple years ago and then adding £300 every few years and then only consider the £300 is cheating a bit.

People look at windows machine being “cheap” but if I take what I spent on computer (in whole or in parts) over a LONG span of time, I have spent way less in Macs. Like way less. I’m still in my 2012 iMac….spent £2,100 on it…I bet people have spent more than that on computers since 2012 on their main windows machine over the years.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Maybe not quite as fast, speed isn't everything but it still does everything I need.
And as you mentioned just like the mac it can be expanded.

When I upgraded my Windows PC a while ago it was a massive upgrade for around £300.

I'm happy for you, that you are a fanboy, but not everyone is or wants to be

lol, not a fanboy…I just bought an android tablet for someone as a present. I used windows for a decade before I switched, I have a windows machine at work alongside a Mac. I know both sides of the coin, I know Mac’s are more restrictive in the OS and I know they charge obscene amount in upgrades and I know about the wall garden etc etc.

The point I am trying to say…and again…not ALL macs are expensive. To say ALL macs are expensive is factually incorrect.

I’m happy you are a windows fanboy though

 

[Cobra]

When you upgraded your windows machine…upgraded a £1000/£2000 windows machine?

Approx a 12 year old machine IIRC was just under the £1000 mark
so that's around £1300 in 12 years, and cheaper than buying a new of of the same spec ( the +£300)

What I don't get is this speed thing, my lap top is pretty instantaneous, opening web pages / documents etc.
I don't think you can get much faster than instantaneous, no matter how much you spend.

To say ALL macs are expensive is factually incorrect.

OK I'll rephrase, they are all far too expensive for what they are, spec for spec when compared to a windows machine.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Approx a 12 year old machine IIRC was just under the £1000 mark
so that's around £1300 in 12 years, and cheaper than buying a new of of the same spec ( the +£300)

What I don't get is this speed thing, my lap top is pretty instantaneous, opening web pages / documents etc.
I don't think you can get much faster than instantaneous, no matter how much you spend.


OK I'll rephrase, they are all far too expensive for what they are.

Well, this is where the person use part comes into play, OP stated some software that is some CPU intensive, not just opening Chrome and look at the BBC, you can do that on a phone too. My suggestion takes into account of what the OP needs.

Running what he needs in a 13 years old windows machine is simply unworkable.

And your last sentence is factually incorrect as I have illustrated several times. “What they are” is more than looking at Word, computers can do a lot more than that and people use it for more than that…he even told us what he use it for.

 

[Cobra]

And your last sentence is factually incorrect as I have illustrated several times.

I don't think you have compared like for like or you wouldn't have said that.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I don't think you have compared like for like or you wouldn't have said that.

The cheapest Mac is £600, there is no like for like in the window space that matches the performance for that price.

It simply destroys all windows machine, pre or self built at this price point. And I’m not talking about looking at Word, I’m talking about doing what he needs in CAD and CPU intensive apps.

 

[Cobra]

The cheapest Mac is £600, there is no like for like in the window space that matches the performance for that price.

In a mad moment awhile back I looked at mac's, to get close to what I wanted compared to a windows machine, would cost me at least double if not treble.

And I wasn't looking at the bargain basement machines Mac or PC.

 

[Raymond Lin]

In a mad moment awhile back I looked at mac's, to get close to what I wanted compared to a windows machine, would cost me at least double if not treble.

And I wasn't looking at the bargain basement machines Mac or PC.

macs are weird in that you have to look into them or buy them at the right time in their update cycle. Because they are “fixed” at the point of purchase. And the spec is fixed until the next update, which can be a year or 2 years. Especially now days.

90% of the Mac range is overpriced, especially in Intel days, probably like 95% back then. Especially when you add on RAM and SSD. There are always a few key product that is very good value for money.

Right now it is the Macmini (but not maxed out), the 14” MacBook Pro is also very good value for what it is, you can get it for like £1700 before, and the screen on that is amazing. And the Studio base model if you need that much power, oh and the MacBook Air.

Back in Intel days, the only Macs I would get was the Macmini they add in my own ram and the IMac, again, add in my own ram. The iMac was basically a Studio display with a computer built in, the display they sell now for £1500, and the iMac before was £1700…so you can argue you are getting a computer for £200…I know it’s not. And in the windows space there is no screen of that quality (5k), with that computer inside for that price. Back then you need to spend like 50% of the £1700 on a 4k display and then don’t leave much for the actual computer. Of course later you can get better and cheaper screens but at that moment in time, that iMac was good value. It all depends when you look at it at their product cycle.

But the top end stuff…when you add in storage it gets stupid and financially irresponsible.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Btw, I have a 2018 MBP with Intel i7 and I regret it, it’s a piece of hot garbage, emphasis on the hot part, even updating Adobe will cause the temperature to spike. Now it’s worthless because it’s moved onto Apple Silicon, and that cost me £2300. The most waste of money on computer I’ve ever done. I have even put windows on it now and use it for a few things now and again.

 

[wornish]

The Windows vs Apple arguments will never stop.

Choose the one that meets your needs.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

When the the apple 2e came out, people referred to it as a fruit and a games machine, my feelings haven't changed.

The 6502 based Apple wasn't a bad piece of kit. It was very popular for Visicalc, before the PC concept got off the ground.

 

[Sangoma]

The 6502 based Apple wasn't a bad piece of kit. It was very popular for Visicalc, before the PC concept got off the ground.

Z80 was far better. I built my first 6502 based machine in 1979, and quickly moved to Z80