Canon FF mirrorless...

Phil V said:
Have a read of your post.
Of course there’s a technical consideration, but as you’ve already noted, more than one technical solution.
The photographer will decide whether to use an ND grad, to bracket, to hope to pull enough out of the raw file....

Or whether they really need the later camera with a wider DR.

Now I appreciate some photographers will run to the new technology and sing from the rooftops that they’ve bought the best tool for the job

I just hear that and (considering the other options) see that as rather sad.

I’m not a Luddite I like tech as much as the next guy, but as has been stated by the sensible folk on photo forums since the beginning of time...

People have been taking amazing photos for years without owning the latest high tech camera. And they’ll continue to do so.

Back to my post from last night, why aren’t the owners of all the superior gear taking all the best pictures?

Because people take pictures, not cameras.
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For me all some of the latest cameras do is make taking the technically difficult shots just a bit easier i.e. poor light needing a high iso setting that is noise free or with better noise control, difficult to focus lock on fast moving objects, difficult exposure situations such as back lighting etc
As for content of the photograph, if you dont have a photographers eye no camera in the world will help, or at least not yet, maybe AI will solve that one too? :)
 
simonbarker said:
So going back to my earlier question, how does the R work in continuous AF at a small aperture (e.g. f/11)? Does it always focus wide open? Does the exposure simulation option change the focus behaviour?
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.... By coincidence I have been out this morning trying out my R on my Canon EF 100-400mm L II + 2x III (+ Adapter) and F/11 is the widest recordable aperture it's possible to set but everything works and performs exactly as if the 1.4x III was mounted. I even got sharp shots of a helicopter flying by although at what sounded like only 3fps (or less!). I also tried my 1DX-2 on the same lens combo and it wouldn't AF because of its F/8 threshold.

I was doing this to explore all my options in the field with my two EOS bodies. I am now able to shoot totally satisfactorily at 200-800mm on the combo with my R and can easily do so handheld. This is an easier-to-handhold and walkabout option than shooting with my EF 500mm F/4L II + 1.4x III at a fixed 700mm but with max recordable aperture of F/5.6. What spoils it though is the slower than slooow frame rate for birds in flight or sudden action.

However, if I mount my 1DX-2 on the 500mm + any Extender I then get the magic 14fps offerings at either 700mm or 1000mm and the 1DX-2 body is far better balanced to shoot with when not on a tripod.

The addition of the EOS R to my Canon system opens up more shooting options with my EF lenses and Extenders than I had realised. So the R is doing rather more than just replace my very compact mirrorless EOS M5 body for macro work.

I hope this answers your question, Simon - I can only share what I experience happening and I don't understand everything that's going on under the hood.
 
wooster said:
Things might move quicker than you expect

https://www.canonrumors.co/two-more-canon-full-frame-mirrorless-cameras-coming-in-2019/
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.... Personally I won't be interested in any lower spec version but would be seriously interested in swopping my R for what is being referred to as the 'R Pro' but only if it has both a Vari-angle LCD screen and a much faster fps. Stronger weatherproofing would be a welcome bonus.

Phil V said:
For Robin the best camera for him is a Canon, partly because he has an emotional attachment, and partly because he already has a bag full of canon gear and no desire to switch systems.

For me, I’d also pick Canon, I don’t need a FF mirrorless right now, but my next camera could be the ‘awful’ 6dII. Maybe one day I’ll buy Robin's Canon R off him. :)
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.... If you like I can let you know if I decide to upgrade to a R Pro and sell my R.

Certainly anyone who has extensively used a EOS M5, like yourself Phil, will have already reached base camp with the mirrorless FF R.

Canon have stated so far that a M-RF mount adapter is not possible to produce - A Canon official explained why in an interview but I don't remember the exact detail.
 
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Swiss Toni said:
Robin would you do a test using the touch screen wearing gloves sometime, cheers.
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.... Ok I can do that this afternoon. I have several types of glove I can try but none are those long satin evening dress gloves that debutantes used to wear (sorry!).
 
simonbarker said:
No doubt IBIS will stop being a compromise when they introduce it.
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They either can’t or aren’t confident that they can emulate the IS benefits that they can achieve with the new R IS lenses. Now if they put that new IS into every R lens then why bother with IBIS as the performance advantages seem to be as good as or better than FF IBIS. Downside, extra expense and it needs to go into all lenses increasing size. For me, I really don’t care whether a camera has IBIS or not. There are far more important reasons why I’ll be giving the R a miss although I can see why Robin has bought one. He’s already been using a mirrorless for his macro while I use a 5D4/D850 and wouldn’t want to change. The rest of my photography relies mainly on having a high frame rate which the R obviously lacks so I use a 1DX2. On the rare occasions I do landscape then I won’t feel that by using the 5D4/D850 I’ll be using something not as good.
 
RedRobin said:
.... Ok I can do that this afternoon. I have several types of glove I can try but none are those long satin evening dress gloves that debutantes used to wear (sorry!).
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How about fingerless ones :)
 
A fair review of their priorities. Apparently not enough to persuade them to switch to Canon from Sony but maybe next time. I'd say they might benefit from not putting any energy into worrying about all of this, and keep getting better using what they're using. I'd imagine most Sony shooters should stick with Sony and enjoy it. Most Canon shooters should stick with Canon and enjoy it. Big takeaway is let everyone do their own thing and shut up telling them what to do.

I posted on here recently asking advice about Canon birding cameras and one kind gent's best input was to tell me to switch to Nikon. Some other member liked this advice. Sometimes forums on the internet just give you the heebie - jeebies :confused:
 
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MatBin said:
Canon have always said they put IS in the lens because they can tailor hardware specifically for each lens, whereas IBIS continues to be a compromise BUT someday it may not and if/when that day happens they might put in IBIS.
They have had this stance ever since they introduced in lens IS.
Of course this could all be marketing speak as they dont want to lose face, they are Japanese after all.
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I think Nikon have the same stance about lens IS being better than in body image stabilisation, (IBIS) which it still may be, if it was one or the other then the former, but Nikon and others have lens IS (VR) and IBIS, and they seem to make it work. Best off both worlds innit. :D And the benefit of non IS lenses is that you get IBIS for every lens. ;)
 
redhed17 said:
I think Nikon have the same stance about lens IS being better than in body image stabilisation, (IBIS) which it still may be, if it was one or the other then the former, but Nikon and others have lens IS (VR) and IBIS, and they seem to make it work. Best off both worlds innit. :D And the benefit of non IS lenses is that you get IBIS for every lens. ;)
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But not all lenses have IS
 
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Swiss Toni said:
Robin would you do a test using the touch screen wearing gloves sometime, cheers.
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.... The only gloves I have which aren't fingerless are made by Thinsulate and have magnetic pads (better than velcro) for folding back to expose thumb and forefinger. They aren't particularly thick gloves but neither are they thin.

The R touchscreen responds just as well as with a naked finger - As with your naked finger on any touchscreen device you always need a degree of accuracy where finger contact occurs.

However, I personally found some of the buttons trickier with gloves covering all fingers.
 
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redhed17 said:
I can't work out what they could take out to put in a model below the EOS R seeing as the EOS R is at a similar level to a 6DII. :thinking: Slower frame rate! :eek: :LOL: Lower res LCD/EVF! Fixed LCD! The mind boggles. :confused:

It will be interesting, if true, to see what the change to differentiate the models.
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.... The consensus of opinion is, and I think that even Canon officials have been reported as saying, that the EOS R sits between the 6D-2 and 5D-4 inasmuch as it's possible to compare mirrorless directly with D-SLR. So logically a lower spec new R version would be equivalent to something like an 80D but isn't that a crop-sensor and the EOS M5 has a crop sensor (same or very very similar to the 7D-2 sensor). I agree, it doesn't make obvious sense but we'll have to wait and see.

I think that Canon's development sequence may be described as being firstly the mount itself and therefore the new RF lenses, followed by a range of R bodies, the first one being the one just launched recently.

The type of fast RF lenses so far released strongly suggest a future higher spec R body to follow to match them.

Having said that, the RF 24-105mm F/4L IS is a kit lens, although a very high quality one, and the RF 35mm F/1.8 IS Macro costs a lot less than the other three RF lenses released so far at around £520.

Obviously I'm hoping for a mirrorless FF equivalent of the 7D-2 with fast fps (and a Vari-angle LCD screen of the same excellent quality).
 
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nandbytes said:
Erm.... I just said where canon sensors stood in the market.
If you go back a few pages you'll see me noting how good canon lens design is especially the 35mm f1.8 macro.

That's not really comparing d*** sizes. I was and am simply pointing out pros and cons and where things stand.

Also to be a good photographer its important to understand the limitations of your tools. Because let's face it no camera system is perfect. They are all limiting in someway.
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Is that tools as in “tools”?:LOL::ROFLMAO:
 
Well I love the colours coming from Canon as I’ve often remarked to Raymond in the Sony thread not realising at the time that it wasn’t a Sony but a Canon he was using,Ah I thought,as good as the Sony’s are.for moi,they just don’t do colour that I like regardless of Lightroom tweaking,Canon for me has it sewn up colour tone wise
 
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RedRobin said:
.... The consensus of opinion is, and I think that even Canon officials have been reported as saying, that the EOS R sits between the 6D-2 and 5D-4 inasmuch as it's possible to compare mirrorless directly with D-SLR. So logically a lower spec new R version would be equivalent to something like an 80D but isn't that a crop-sensor and the EOS M5 has a crop sensor (same or very very similar to the 7D-2 sensor). I agree, it doesn't make obvious sense but we'll have to wait and see.

I think that Canon's development sequence may be described as being firstly the mount itself and therefore the new RF lenses, followed by a range of R bodies, the first one being the one just launched recently.

The type of fast RF lenses so far released strongly suggest a future higher spec R body to follow to match them.

Having said that, the RF 24-105mm F/4L IS is a kit lens, although a very high quality one, and the RF 35mm F/1.8 IS Macro costs a lot less than the other three RF lenses released so far at around £520.

Obviously I'm hoping for a mirrorless FF equivalent of the 7D-2 with fast fps (and a Vari-angle LCD screen of the same excellent quality).
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That was my assumption when I read it. Not everyone wants FF. I would prefer it for some limited use but mostly the APS-C ( in my case, Fuji ) is what I need. I suspect the new R APS-C if it appears will be an upgrade on the M.
Also not everyone wants 30mp.
 
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wooster said:
I suspect the new APS-C when it appears will be an upgrade on the M.
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FTFY

Talk about the speed nonsense can travel...

The Canon M is the Melania Trump of cameras, bullied by everyone who doesnt own one.
 
RedRobin said:
.... The only gloves I have which aren't fingerless are made by Thinsulate and have magnetic pads (better than velcro) for folding back to expose thumb and forefinger. They aren't particularly thick gloves but neither are they thin.

The R touchscreen responds just as well as with a naked finger -
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Thank you Robin that's very helpful, all I need now from Canon is a joystick, a few more fps and a sensor as good as Sony. ;)
 
Interview with Canon USA's President :

https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...ogawa-talks-mirrorless-strategy-eos-r-arrives

He says :

" Well, I cannot share future product plans, however basically our strategy is a "full lineup" strategy. So [covering] from entry level to the professionals, regardless of the format. Digital SLR or mirrorless, and even digital compact cameras. Also, we have the EOS M series. Each group of technologies or products itself has an advantage. So a "full lineup" strategy means to fulfill the entire requirement from the customers.

Therefore, with digital SLRs, you have the expertise; advantages and disadvantages: Mirrorless has advantages and disadvantages. Digital compact cameras as well, you know, they all have advantages and disadvantages. How we put the priority for the specifications, that is the key. "
 
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I think some people are confusing this forum for a photography forum! It’s a gear forum through and through so playing Top Trumps with spec sheets will always prevail.

As for staying with Canon if you are already a Canon shooter (or vice versa) I don’t agree with this. It’s irrelevant whether you have £1 or £1m invested in Canon SLR lenses you need to buy a different body and ultimately different lenses if you want to stay with Canon. That’s a switch to a new system btw;)

What I hear you cry you wish to adapt all your ageing SLR lenses? Well fine you can choose the canon/Nikon or Sony! Hell you could even choose all three!

The future is very different and we don’t need to be stuck in the mindset of ‘keeping’ to one brand anymore.
 
Brazo said:
I think some people are confusing this forum for a photography forum! It’s a gear forum through and through so playing Top Trumps with spec sheets will always prevail.
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.... You have missed the fact that you are in a section of the Talk Equipment discussions which is titled "Canon FF Mirrorless". Comparisons can obviously be made but are pretty meaningless unless they are truly objective.

Brazo said:
As for staying with Canon if you are already a Canon shooter (or vice versa) I don’t agree with this. It’s irrelevant whether you have £1 or £1m invested in Canon SLR lenses you need to buy a different body and ultimately different lenses if you want to stay with Canon. That’s a switch to a new system btw;)
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.... Absolutely not true! Please read post #2554 and the quote by Canon's US President.

Brazo said:
What I hear you cry you wish to adapt all your ageing SLR lenses? Well fine you can choose the canon/Nikon or Sony! Hell you could even choose all three!

The future is very different and we don’t need to be stuck in the mindset of ‘keeping’ to one brand anymore.
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.... Of course! Any intelligent person understands that they have the freedom of choice.
 
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RedRobin said:
.... You have missed the fact that you are in a section of the Talk Equipment discussions which is titled "Canon FF Mirrorless".

I haven’t missed it no, there was some sarcasm in my post that you missed but my post was aimed at those who had got all starry eyed about photography. Which isn’t so much a part of TP anymore. Hint: sarcasm.
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Brazo said:
I think some people are confusing this forum for a photography forum! It’s a gear forum through and through so playing Top Trumps with spec sheets will always prevail.

As for staying with Canon if you are already a Canon shooter (or vice versa) I don’t agree with this. It’s irrelevant whether you have £1 or £1m invested in Canon SLR lenses you need to buy a different body and ultimately different lenses if you want to stay with Canon. That’s a switch to a new system btw;)

What I hear you cry you wish to adapt all your ageing SLR lenses? Well fine you can choose the canon/Nikon or Sony! Hell you could even choose all three!

The future is very different and we don’t need to be stuck in the mindset of ‘keeping’ to one brand anymore.
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You don't have to change lenses though, that's the whole point... Their adapted lenses are supposed to work just as well, if not better in some cases. The same can't be said for adapted lenses on Sony, I so wish it did though.
 
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