Great Day today for the wind farms :-) and Solar :-)

vintageman said:
At less than 6pence per unit - So why is the price cap going up?
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the price of electricity is not calculated on how much renewable we are generating or even how much gas we are using (to generate electricity)
its is calculated on how much all the infrastructure costs to manage and maintain over years + the actual cost of producing
currently we are in a high build phase of solar and wind and we are upgrading our out of date electricity grid to cope with the increased use of EV and also heat pumps in peoples homes.

once all this is done we will have stable and hopefully cheaper electricity (not gas that is a separate market) also much more of our electricity will be zero carbon :)

Also to be fair there is the possible money saving in homes in the future of not having a gas connection.
once we move heating to heat pumps and use induction stoves, gas will not be required so big savings for the consumer.
 
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This site is my go to for real time data

grid.iamkate.com

National Grid: Live

Shows the live status of Great Britain’s electric power transmission network
grid.iamkate.com grid.iamkate.com
 
...and we have to sell it into the market and buy it back at spot prices, market price is higher than local economic price, I believe
 
lindsay said:
...and we have to sell it into the market and buy it back at spot prices, market price is higher than local economic price, I believe
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yes it is the only way to encourage investement in these industries.
wind farms cost a lot to build but once built are quite cheap to maintain.
 
Wind power of the years :)
Imagine in 10 more years what the number could be

in only 7 years we have more than doubled !

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Mr Bump said:
yes it is the only way to encourage investement in these industries.
wind farms cost a lot to build but once built are quite cheap to maintain.
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Yes. I'd suggest that enough carrot, it's time for stick. Swap so we are fixing prices relative to renewables instead of gas. So people with renewables make a reasonable profit and people burning gas find it uneconomic. Done correctly (with enough warnings to the market and a sufficient profit margin) and we could cut a huge amount off fuel bills. So that the winter fuel allowance was no longer necessary saving HMG a significant sum and possibly salvaging the current government's credibility.

I can dream, right?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yes. I'd suggest that enough carrot, it's time for stick. Swap so we are fixing prices relative to renewables instead of gas. So people with renewables make a reasonable profit and people burning gas find it uneconomic. Done correctly (with enough warnings to the market and a sufficient profit margin) and we could cut a huge amount off fuel bills. So that the winter fuel allowance was no longer necessary saving HMG a significant sum and possibly salvaging the current government's credibility.

I can dream, right?
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100% agree but again to be fair I want to get to renewable quicker and maybe for that we still need a decent sized carrot :)

and realy the bigger push has to be wind as it can operate at night wheras solar cannot
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yes. I'd suggest that enough carrot, it's time for stick. Swap so we are fixing prices relative to renewables instead of gas. So people with renewables make a reasonable profit and people burning gas find it uneconomic. Done correctly (with enough warnings to the market and a sufficient profit margin) and we could cut a huge amount off fuel bills. So that the winter fuel allowance was no longer necessary saving HMG a significant sum and possibly salvaging the current government's credibility.

I can dream, right?
Click to expand...
That would need the wholesale electricity market to be completely changed and the savings may not be as big as you expect, Currently multiple providers bid in at negative prices per MWh to ensure their product gets bought as things like nuclear reactors are slow to start and stop (though they can be stopped very fast in an emergency), which is why sometimes the cost of electric for a 30 minute period is negative. That would stop happening, and generators would need to bid at a level that would at least cover their costs.

It would stop the massive profits the solar / wind generators make when gas (or worse, hydro) is needed though.
 
onomatopoeia said:
That would need the wholesale electricity market to be completely changed and the savings may not be as big as you expect, Currently multiple providers bid in at negative prices per MWh to ensure their product gets bought as things like nuclear reactors are slow to start and stop (though they can be stopped very fast in an emergency), which is why sometimes the cost of electric for a 30 minute period is negative. That would stop happening, and generators would need to bid at a level that would at least cover their costs.

It would stop the massive profits the solar / wind generators make when gas (or worse, hydro) is needed though.
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Thanks - yes I appreciate it would be complex and may actually push costs up at some times. If we hit a period when wind and solar aren't enough then buying power in could be very expensive. I remember studying Dinorwig at school and thinking "what a dumb idea - it doesn't produce any power". But when you think of it as a giant battery it makes sense.

But at the moment we have an energy market where some people (me included) get paid to charge their Teslas, while others literally die due to the cost of gas. I think it's time to try a different model.
 
Dunkelflaute seems to be a problem at the moment. Not a great time for Eddy M!
 
Wow great night
Winter is the time for the wind power :)
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nog said:
Probably why Octopus are giving free electric ( above your normal usage) for a couple of hours tomorrow
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yeah for sure i wouldn't be surprises if at noon tomorrow with wind and solar we will be at 80%
 
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wow we hit 78%

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Box Brownie said:
The interconnector figures look a tad odd....we exported more than we imported. Do we act as re-export conduit at times :thinking:
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Yep we do we always export to NI for a start and sometimes if we have a lot of wind we export to EU
 
Crickey, a few more wind turbines and/or EfW plants.....then no more gas setting the marginal wholesale price on our windy days. Maybe Independence isn't such a bad idea...


1734391379363.png
 
@gman yup when the wind works its massive
be great in 5 years once all the farms in WIP come on line

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gman said:
Naturally, the main concern is when the wind doesn't blow and the 'other sources' aren't enough.
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Yep for sure all we can do is move forward with wind and solar and see where the sweet spot is. I suspect we will just reduce our reliance on gas to a manageable level. The main hope is we can sell electricity to the EU it has an aging nuclear industry
 
gman said:
Naturally, the main concern is when the wind doesn't blow and the 'other sources' aren't enough.
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Mr Bump said:
Yep for sure all we can do is move forward with wind and solar and see where the sweet spot is. I suspect we will just reduce our reliance on gas to a manageable level. The main hope is we can sell electricity to the EU it has an aging nuclear industry
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The "base load" question is still unresolved. It used to be all coal....then nuclear offset the reliance on coal .....as coal diminished.....gas turbine stations were introduced to be able to meet spasmodic sudden demands.

Unless we get on and invest in significant gigabatteries for storage and/or SMRs, we will be "stuffed" in the next 10 years!
 
Box Brownie said:
The "base load" question is still unresolved. It used to be all coal....then nuclear offset the reliance on coal .....as coal diminished.....gas turbine stations were introduced to be able to meet spasmodic sudden demands.

Unless we get on and invest in significant gigabatteries for storage and/or SMRs, we will be "stuffed" in the next 10 years!
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there is definatly an issue there that the UK government has just ignored for years an I am not sure of the answer
batteries are a thing but not in the UK where we will need longer periods of grid support , i guess we will have to see when the next nuclear stuff comes on line but it doesn't look good

Almost half of the UK's current nuclear capacity is due to be decommission by 2025 and only one new plant, Hinkley Point C, is currently under construction. If no other new nuclear power stations are built, the UK's nuclear capacity in 2050 will be a third of what it is today. Although I believe some reactors have been extended to 2030 now.
 
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Unfortunately, the UK's use of fossil fuels is a drop in the ocean and coal is in higher demand now than ever before.

news.sky.com

Why coal is being burned more than ever as demand in China and India soars despite carbon emissions warnings

Global demand for the fossil fuel is forecast to hit a record 8.77 billion tonnes, offsetting likely growth in renewable energy, as demand in China, by far the world's largest coal consumer, is expected to be nearly a third higher than in the rest of the world.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Mr Bump said:
Yep for sure all we can do is move forward with wind and solar and see where the sweet spot is. I suspect we will just reduce our reliance on gas to a manageable level. The main hope is we can sell electricity to the EU it has an aging nuclear industry
Click to expand...

Ideally I would like gas to disappear from our energy consumption seeing as it's the part pushing the prices up. Although knowing our Governments and the big energy companies, they'd most likely just increase the price of the next type of fuel that is switched on last.

I recall a conversation on the radio about these mini reactors that could replace the big nuclear plants and provide the necessary energy when the renewables aren't enough. It was mentioned that there would be a 5-10 year build time, but if we fracked in the meantime we could have super cheap energy, possibly the cheapest in Europe. I've not looked at the numbers myself, nor if the concerns from earlier years surrounding fracking are actually valid / still valid.

Surprisingly, the guest they had on said that coal was one of the best backup solutions because it can be stored so easily and for a long time. I never really thought about it like that.
 
gman said:
Ideally I would like gas to disappear from our energy consumption seeing as it's the part pushing the prices up. Although knowing our Governments and the big energy companies, they'd most likely just increase the price of the next type of fuel that is switched on last.

I recall a conversation on the radio about these mini reactors that could replace the big nuclear plants and provide the necessary energy when the renewables aren't enough. It was mentioned that there would be a 5-10 year build time, but if we fracked in the meantime we could have super cheap energy, possibly the cheapest in Europe. I've not looked at the numbers myself, nor if the concerns from earlier years surrounding fracking are actually valid / still valid.

Surprisingly, the guest they had on said that coal was one of the best backup solutions because it can be stored so easily and for a long time. I never really thought about it like that.
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Yes, at the moment it is stored(?) in the ground ;)
 
Nod said:
Unfortunately, the UK's use of fossil fuels is a drop in the ocean and coal is in higher demand now than ever before.

news.sky.com

Why coal is being burned more than ever as demand in China and India soars despite carbon emissions warnings

Global demand for the fossil fuel is forecast to hit a record 8.77 billion tonnes, offsetting likely growth in renewable energy, as demand in China, by far the world's largest coal consumer, is expected to be nearly a third higher than in the rest of the world.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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True , India is doomed as it struggles to simply move from 3rd world country to a full western member they claw at every ability to do energy and commerce as cheap as possible , i would actually say India is where China was about 30 years ago. China on the other hand is struggling with growth and while it is forging ahead with EV adoption it still has a huge demand for cheap power and for a while coal will fill that void.

The UK on the other hand is truly to become a leader in renewable energy whether future governments have the incite to continue the incredible journey is yet to be seen.
 
gman said:
I suppose technically so is the oil and gas for fracking! lol
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fracking is a viable option i would rather see gas being used than oil , gas burns quite cleanly.
Even cars were going LPG at one time
 
Mr Bump said:
fracking is a viable option i would rather see gas being used than oil , gas burns quite cleanly.
Even cars were going LPG at one time
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I do wonder if the real issue with fracking, small reactors and renewables to cover all our power needs is 'God forbid we give the public cheap energy'
 
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