Is digital dead now?

GreenNinja67 said:
OK, the majority of phone buyers aren't looking at the specs of the camera when making the decision to purchase.

You do as you're a photographer.

Most look at the colour of the case or want to get a better one than their mate's just got.

Nothing sweeping about my statement, however I could have put "in my opinion" to remove the broom.
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You said that 'nobody buys a 'phone for the camera'.

A significantly different statement to your more nuanced statement above.

I still believe you are fundamentally wrong though.

'Phone manufacturers go to a great deal of time, trouble and expense to extol the virtues of the cameras in their lastest high-end 'phones.

Why might his be?

PS - there is quite a contradiction in that final paragraph of yours!
 
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Marketing BS?
 
I have a nephew who definitely thinks about the camera when buying a phone. Unfortunately he only seems to look at one thing and it's the mp count.

I can see the appeal of smartphones as they're always with you, if we ignore the IMO awful ergonomics they're easy to operate by people who've never heard of exposure triangles and the like, the pictures can look very nice on the screen, you can easily do "things" to the pictures like add filters etc and crucially smartphones allow you to zap pictures off on social media pretty much instantly and that in itself will be enough to clinch the deal for many people and good luck to them.
 
whyone said:
You said that 'nobody buys a 'phone for the camera'.

A significantly different statement to your more nuanced statement above.

I still believe you are fundamentally wrong though.

'Phone manufacturers go to a great deal of time, trouble and expense to extol the virtues of the cameras in their lastest high-end 'phones.

Why might his be?

PS - there is quite a contradiction in that final paragraph of yours!
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Happy to be wrong, these are after all my personal opinions. Not here for a fight.

To be honest it's the last thing I consider when buying a phone / taking out a new contract.

This may be because I've never had a phone with a camera that takes shots that blow my socks off.
 
Is digital dead now?

No, because we live in a world where convenience and instant gratification is king and mobile phones give you that plus much more. However as many have pointed out the mobile phone lacks the flexibility of the Camera and one with interchangeable lens.

As for "no one buys a phone for the camera" I did, it was something that I looked for when I bought mine.

Saying that, camera manufactures have come to an elovutionary stop with how they design cameras. The only thing that new cameras can do is increase speed as we have seen with the Sony Global Shutter and 120fps the next incarnation of this will, I don't, know push 200fps? who knows.
 
Knikki said:
Saying that, camera manufactures have come to an elovutionary stop with how they design cameras. The only thing that new cameras can do is increase speed as we have seen with the Sony Global Shutter and 120fps the next incarnation of this will, I don't, know push 200fps? who knows.
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Or ISO100 quality at ISO6400?
 
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I think theres three different markets really.
Theres the smartphone people. A smartphone is good enough for what they need.
Theres the camera people. A camera will do a lot more and be the choice for say weddings, studio stuff and serious snapper.
Theres the use both. A camera for serious stuff. but the phone is good enough for the odd pic I see when I'm out and about with nothing better (me).
I suspect phones are affecting camera sales, they have go a lot better, but I think they'll always be a market.
Certainly for me, until a phone with interchangable lens and say a 1 inch sensor somes along I'll still use a camera for serious pics..... and probably after... ;) Besides wacking a mugger in the face with an Iphone 23 doesnt have the same "impact" as a gripped 5d2 with a 70-200 L lens........ :cool:
 
Norkie said:
Or ISO100 quality at ISO6400?
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Maybe.

Saying that the ability to photograph a black cat in a coal cellar at midnight and get a poster size print seems to have gone off the agenda when I watch reviews, it seems more about AF and speed abilities.
 
whyone said:
Quite possibly....but done because they know camera's sell phones.
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I'm not so sure...marketers will announce and promote numbers, so they will say it's got a 100Mp camera when really it's three sensors each with maybe 25 and add pixel shift or something as a multiplier, in the knowledge that the gullible majority of consumers just want a big number to compare with other not quite as big numbers. These consumers don't care about how good the camera actually is, they care about what the marketer says it can do - a huge difference.
 
lindsay said:
I'm not so sure...marketers will announce and promote numbers, so they will say it's got a 100Mp camera when really it's three sensors each with maybe 25 and add pixel shift or something as a multiplier, in the knowledge that the gullible majority of consumers just want a big number to compare with other not quite as big numbers. These consumers don't care about how good the camera actually is, they care about what the marketer says it can do - a huge difference.
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Is it really a huge difference, and if so, how so?

I am saying that marketers say 'stuff' about cameras so that their clients sell more 'phones.

You seem to be saying that say 'stuff' about cameras so that their clients sell more 'phones.
 
I must admit that your post confuses me, but I think we are trying to articulate something very similar. My point is that many (most?) consumers don't care about the actual quality of the camera in their phone so long as it looks ok on the screen, but they are very influenced by marketing hype that purports to show that one phone's camera quality is better than another's. This can give the impression that these consumers care about phone quality when in reality they are just buying into the marketing spiel. I am pretty sure the vast majority, like me, couldn't tell the difference between a photo taken on an iPhone 6 and one taken on a Samsung 23 Ultra, unless they pixel-peeped which most users don't.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
People don't buy a smartphone for the camera.
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My 16 year old just spent a significant chunk of money on a Google Pixel 8, principally to use it as a stills and video camera, in which role it gets daily and enthusiastic use.

The camera was, quite frankly, the main consideration, especially its low-light performance with Night Mode, and this was a conscious choice over a 'proper' camera (even when I offered one of my older cameras for free)
 
lindsay said:
I must admit that your post confuses me, but I think we are trying to articulate something very similar. My point is that many (most?) consumers don't care about the actual quality of the camera in their phone so long as it looks ok on the screen, but they are very influenced by marketing hype that purports to show that one phone's camera quality is better than another's. This can give the impression that these consumers care about phone quality when in reality they are just buying into the marketing spiel. I am pretty sure the vast majority, like me, couldn't tell the difference between a photo taken on an iPhone 6 and one taken on a Samsung 23 Ultra, unless they pixel-peeped which most users don't.
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I think some of the picture processing things could well sway people, like that ad on TV which includes object/people removal. They make it look very easy and effective. I'd imagine abilities like that could well get people interested in phone photography to buy.
 
GreenNinja67 said:
So it's your way or the highway is it?

What a stupid post.

You laud the merits of phone photography but say digital sucks?

Hate to break it to you matey but phones don't take film shots.

You can stop liking me now.
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I like you even more.

My mistake is not telling everyone this was a light hearted post designed to stir the emotions.

I really really really do not want offend anyone.
 
f/2.8 said:
It’s likely that in 20 years time from now we will be using entirely different tech. Sensor size may will not be an issue.

If Musk has his way we will be using a sensor inside our brains and our eyes as lenses.
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I use a 4 X 5 inch sensor.
 
soupdragon said:
I use a 4 X 5 inch sensor.
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I suppose that you could make that sensor re-usable if it was Ferotype and you scanned it, polished off the image and recoated it.
Just a thought... :tumbleweed:
 
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LongLensPhotography said:
A trolling attempt?!

I couldn't care less about your films. If you like playing, go ahead there are enough supplies. It is a niche thing now so sorry you may have to dig deeper and pay more for it. It is not going back to the 1980s ever again. Get on it with it. But to throw toys off the pram and wishing demise of digital is so childish...

And besides, if the soccer moms finally give up and move back to iphones and AI, so be it. Couldn't care less about it too.
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Finally, someone understands.
Trolling is a bit of a strong word though.

You, by the way, are also one of my fave posters here.
 
whyone said:
I don't think you will find many who would argue that photos from a modern mirrorless camera (with a competent operator pressing th buttons) in most situations will produce much better photographs than even the best camera 'phone.

However, and maybe it is just me, there have been situations where my camera phone was the better solution.

For example, Upper Antelope Canyon, Arizona. No tripods/monopods allowed, poor/difficult light and only a little available time available at each location to set-up, compose and take pictures.

I did take some photos with my SLR, but quickly realised (and confirmed when I got back to a computer to compare) that my 'phone was coping better than me and my Canon.

View attachment 416276
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Heck of a shot.
 
Knikki said:
Is digital dead now?

No, because we live in a world where convenience and instant gratification is king and mobile phones give you that plus much more. However as many have pointed out the mobile phone lacks the flexibility of the Camera and one with interchangeable lens.

As for "no one buys a phone for the camera" I did, it was something that I looked for when I bought mine.

Saying that, camera manufactures have come to an elovutionary stop with how they design cameras. The only thing that new cameras can do is increase speed as we have seen with the Sony Global Shutter and 120fps the next incarnation of this will, I don't, know push 200fps? who knows.
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Once again, my opening gambit was ambiguous.
When I said digital I was refering to photography.

My apologies.
 
soupdragon said:
Where is that?
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It used to be on one of the roundabouts in Telfs, Austria. It seems to have been replaced by a much smaller and unrelated piece.
 
I think I’m correct in saying that the larger the sensor the more light and detail it can collect, so a ‘proper’ camera will always be better quality, I know that phones nowadays use AI and computing to compensate for this
 
soupdragon said:
Once again, my opening gambit was ambiguous.
When I said digital I was refering to photography.

My apologies.
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Well, now that's makes for a more interesting question :thinking:

With the rise of AI Imaging, you never know. ;)
 
Knikki said:
Well, now that's makes for a more interesting question :thinking:

With the rise of AI Imaging, you never know. ;)
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AI won’t be the end of photography, but it may well bring about the end of the photographer… :naughty:
 
f/2.8 said:
It’s likely that in 20 years time from now we will be using entirely different tech. Sensor size may will not be an issue.

If Musk has his way we will be using a sensor inside our brains and our eyes as lenses.
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We'll need new eyes then. The human eye see's a fairly small circle of reasonably sharp detail, outside that is very soft detail. Thats before we get to the dozens of eye conditions we suffer from , from floaters to detatched retina.
 
swanseamale47 said:
We'll need new eyes then. The human eye see's a fairly small circle of reasonably sharp detail, outside that is very soft detail. Thats before we get to the dozens of eye conditions we suffer from , from floaters to detatched retina.
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No worries Elon can replace them with medium format sensors.
 
swanseamale47 said:
I think theres three different markets really.
Theres the smartphone people. A smartphone is good enough for what they need.
Theres the camera people. A camera will do a lot more and be the choice for say weddings, studio stuff and serious snapper.
Theres the use both. A camera for serious stuff. but the phone is good enough for the odd pic I see when I'm out and about with nothing better (me).
I suspect phones are affecting camera sales, they have go a lot better, but I think they'll always be a market.
Certainly for me, until a phone with interchangable lens and say a 1 inch sensor somes along I'll still use a camera for serious pics..... and probably after... ;) Besides wacking a mugger in the face with an Iphone 23 doesnt have the same "impact" as a gripped 5d2 with a 70-200 L lens........ :cool:
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There are now phones out there with 1” sensors. Checkout the Xiaomi 13 Pro for example.
 
I think there will always be a place for both. I love the whole experience of taking photos with my camera; from the feel of the camera in my hands, looking through the viewfinder, adjusting dials etc, and then if the photo is good that's an added bonus! I can go out for the day just wandering around with my camera, but I wouldn't even consider doing that with my phone - although if I spot something when I don't have my camera on me, I'll take plenty of shots with my phone too.
 
I'm tempted to say that in the world of imaging, all methods of production are potentially equal. The trouble is that I don't altogether believe that. The crux may hinge around how the technology available at any time is actually used. Read on, because things are changing ...

There are people out there who'll try to sell you anything. To call them to account, I propose a test: is it for the overall benefit of humanity & life on earth?

In most cases, I suspect that a yes answer is dubious, & the main motive is much to do with profit. And profit is a base desire in terms of the human soul.

We all inhabit a hybrid space: we live in the culture of the times, & use what's available. Do you have an electric kettle, or have to set fire to some sticks? I'm not advocating any sense of purism.

Humans have walked on the moon. I don't know what they ate or what happened to their s***. But there are probably some attractive minerals there, ripe for exploitation.

Just as here we are, on a so far sustaining planet, piddling our heads with minor matters ...

Much of so-called culture is a passing fad; business is a wasteland based essentially not on ethics but on profit. Just try to be true.
 
Simplythebeast said:
There are now phones out there with 1” sensors. Checkout the Xiaomi 13 Pro for example.
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Sensors are one link in the chain, what about the lenses? And then there's the software phones throw at pictures although I think some offer raw these days but even with a decent lens and raw and limiting the software interference there's still the questionable ergonomics.
 
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