Is the VW group going bust?

Clive K said:
Envionmental effects of Lithium battery production



'Clean' electricity generation reliant on nuclear power

www.iea.org

Clean sources of generation are set to cover all of the world’s additional electricity demand over the next three years - News - IEA

Clean sources of generation are set to cover all of the world’s additional electricity demand over the next three years - News from the International Energy Agency
www.iea.org www.iea.org
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Unlike fossil fuel, where it is one time consumable. Once mined, lithium can be recycled from one battery to the next. We need a lot right now by mining, but in the future it will all come from recycled lithium. Even right now, it may seem like replacing one evil with another. But mining of lithium for battery is nothing compared to the global operation that is mining and refining for a one time use consumable.

Li-on battery production is covered in the whole-life carbon emissions calculation I posted earlier.

Nuclear generation is very clean in its use, it produces vastly lower climate change carbon emissions than fuel burning plants (include "green" biomass). The only concern is waste management, which is already under intense scrutiny.

Did you know, coal power plant decommissioning also involves dealing with radioactive materials. I didn't until recently talking about decommissioning UK's last coal plants. https://www.epa.gov/radtown/radioactive-wastes-coal-fired-power-plants


But the power of connected batteries enabled by mass EV adoption is that more unpredictable renewables can be brought online without its generation going to waste. Renwables give super cheap electricity when conditions are right, and batteries empower people to use those very cheap energy.
Cheap renewables: https://www.octopusenergygeneration.com/fan-club/

Thus, nuclear provides base load that cannot be flexible, I'd argue UK will have enough nuclear after Hinkley Point C. Build renewables everywhere and batteries everywhere charged extremely cheaply when the conditions are right.
 
wyx087 said:
Out of interest, how much did you sell it for?
I guess your buyer plugged in a dongle and read health on their phone using LeafSpy?
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Not sure and not sure, I'm afraid - it was Mrs Nod's deal so she dealt with it!
 
Re Lithium, atmo it's mined but that's changing.
There is enough Lithium in the world's oceans to make car batteries for the next forty thousand years plus* (assuming Lithium is even used in car batteries going forward). Tests are ongoing to find a viable way to filter the Lithium from sea water, early stage yet but serious money is involved so it will not be long before we see commercial Lithium filtering, doing away with mining all together.

* approx 180 billion tonnes of the stuff.
 
Audi Quarter 3 have reported profits down

In Q3 alone, the operating profit plummeted 91% to €106 ($116) million. The company largely blamed this on “restructuring expenses due to the reorganization of the Audi Brussels plant.” While the picture isn't rosy, Audi noted they're updating their lineup and have introduced 15 new models in 2024.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Removing lithium in substantial quantities is likely to significantly affect marine life, so don't bank on it being un unlimited resource.
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180 plus billion tonnes!... In 2023 180 thousand tonnes was mined worldwide for every device that uses it, that's 1 millionth of the capacity of the oceans, if you did it for a thousand years you wouldn't make a dent in a gnats knee comparitively.

Seriously, the way technology is going I doubt they'll have time to develop a way to remove the lithium in commercially viable quantities before Lithium is not longer required.
 
Steep said:
180 plus billion tonnes!... In 2023 180 thousand tonnes was mined worldwide for every device that uses it, that's 1 millionth of the capacity of the oceans, if you did it for a thousand years you wouldn't make a dent in a gnats knee comparitively.

Seriously, the way technology is going I doubt they'll have time to develop a way to remove the lithium in commercially viable quantities before Lithium is not longer required.
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The sea isn't like the air, and taking out a thousand tons over a couple of years from a shallow water area is going to create a very big local change because there will be relatively little mixing.
 
Yeah, ok.
 
Will never buy a Chinese car, battery, petrol or pedal car, anyway, I asked my ev owning mates who (mostly) rave about them, why they have such big vehicles, bigger than their previous petrol cars, do they need such large vehicles for two occupants, no choice was a lot of the answers, no small evs available.
A lot of regular car changers just holding on to their vehicles longer, my toy is 15 year old, good for 10? More, her car 2 year old so good for lotsa years at the mileages we do, worst case, we’ll buy an ice just before the cut off and store it in the garage till it’s needed, at our age we might not be driving in 10 years anyway.
 
mj4456 said:
Will never buy a Chinese car, battery, petrol or pedal car, anyway, I asked my ev owning mates who (mostly) rave about them, why they have such big vehicles, bigger than their previous petrol cars, do they need such large vehicles for two occupants, no choice was a lot of the answers, no small evs available.
A lot of regular car changers just holding on to their vehicles longer, my toy is 15 year old, good for 10? More, her car 2 year old so good for lotsa years at the mileages we do, worst case, we’ll buy an ice just before the cut off and store it in the garage till it’s needed, at our age we might not be driving in 10 years anyway.
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That's just about my thinking except that I don't know anyone with an EV. Nobody local has one, not even a hybrid and of the 200 or so customers I have visited over the last 11 years, none have owned anything but full fat oil burners. My current car is 14 years old and drives like new. I'll buy a newer diesel version in three or four years and that will see me out. Wife's car is 16 years old and equally in great condition. She doesn't fancy swapping to an EV either.
 
Clive K said:
That's just about my thinking except that I don't know anyone with an EV. Nobody local has one, not even a hybrid and of the 200 or so customers I have visited over the last 11 years, none have owned anything but full fat oil burners. My current car is 14 years old and drives like new. I'll buy a newer diesel version in three or four years and that will see me out. Wife's car is 16 years old and equally in great condition. She doesn't fancy swapping to an EV either.
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You are in France though, where distances are larger, people are quite conservative, diesel is cheaper and the vehicle testing *appears* less demanding on older vehicles. FWIW in Cussy (pop about 400) there's a Renault Twingo in the village and the charging station at Autun intermarche is usually in use.
 
ancient_mariner said:
You are in France though, where distances are larger, people are quite conservative, diesel is cheaper and the vehicle testing *appears* less demanding on older vehicles. FWIW in Cussy (pop about 400) there's a Renault Twingo in the village and the charging station at Autun intermarche is usually in use.
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It is interesting that many villages now have charging points that are rarely used. In a local town on market days residents or visitors have taken to using the charging bays to park their diesel vehicles as often these are the only two free spaces in the town centre. When we shop at the bigger town every week I rarely see any EVs using the 6 supermarket charging points and most of those that do have Belgian or Dutch plates.

People here hang onto their cars far longer than the average in the UK. And the EU introduced Controle Technique tests have been watered down in France and probably elsewhere. The regulations haven't changed, but the interpretation must have.

I'm not sure that diesel is significantly cheaper here though. It is in Spain, but the difference is less each time we visit.
 
Mr Bump said:
humm dunno to be honest i think maybe see if they get through the restructure and wage negotiations with unions
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For me it's the Porsche element that provides some reassurance, but then it's been as low as almost €30 during the big financial crash, but that was exceptional times. Perhaps if it falls to €60 I may take a closer look.

Tesla had a fair decline after late 2021 and a struggled recovery, but it's getting there. There's potential now for new highs in the near future. Interesting times ahead.
 
Mr Bump said:
VW Share Price is plummeting

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130 to 84 in 8 monthsis hardly plumetting By stock exchange standards. And don't forget that VW have been on their arris before. Then somebody designed a car called the Golf and it did rather well. The German, French and Italian governments aided by the Spanish and others will strongarm the EU into making the European market harder for American and Chinese companies to operate in.
 
Clive K said:
130 to 84 in 8 monthsis hardly plumetting By stock exchange standards. And don't forget that VW have been on their arris before. Then somebody designed a car called the Golf and it did rather well. The German, French and Italian governments aided by the Spanish and others will strongarm the EU into making the European market harder for American and Chinese companies to operate in.
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nope look at the 5 year pattern
down is the only way for VW
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Mr Bump said:
nope look at the 5 year pattern
down is the only way for VW
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You really are desperate to prove a point. If Teslar survive in business for half the time that VW have then they will have done well. But the way that Musk is operating might see the company not lasting out this decade.
 
Clive K said:
You really are desperate to prove a point. If Teslar survive in business for half the time that VW have then they will have done well. But the way that Musk is operating might see the company not lasting out this decade.
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I think it is more you that seems to be defending a position that simply doesn't exist VW and many other legacy car makers are in the poop
the only car makers that are making money are the above EV companies = fact
 
Mr Bump said:
I think it is more you that seems to be defending a position that simply doesn't exist VW and many other legacy car makers are in the poop
the only car makers that are making money are the above EV companies = fact
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What you don't seem to realise is that Chinese and American companies are benefitting from massive state subsidies whilst European manufacturers are having to play by EU fiscal policies that prevent governments from propping up their businesses. Teslar has faced a significant drop in its market share of EVs through Chinese competition and with the new regime in the States and Musk's closeness to Trump expect the EU to level up the playing field pretty soon.

The head of Toyota still believes that EV market share will not go much above 30%. That hasn't quite been reached yet and by the time that it does the Europeans and Asian companies will have had time to develop their own vehicles that won't attract tarrifs in their domsstic markets. The game has only just begun.
 
gman said:

Rivian, Volkswagen Group launch $5.8 billion joint venture​


Interesting merger. Looks like VW are certainly not ignoring the EV future.
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yeah its an odd one that, the Electric Viking did a video of this venture last week
seems to think VW are spreading there money about for no real reason.

it could be they need the rivian technology to help out there EV platform
 
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