Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

I was going to make a humorous (to me, anyway) reply, but I think a more serious one would be better. The history of science and particularly experimental science shows that unexpected results, or results that differ widely from the theoretical calculations can be indicative of an incomplete or false theory. At any rate, they should be examined from a standpoint of attempting to explain them rather than dismissing them out of hand as experimental errors.

Hence my attempt to find an explanation that isn't user error. A slight discrepancy in the holder, unnoticed if a longer lens is used, could be revealed with a shorter lens; even a slight misloading of the film holder could be a cause.

Just my attempt to extract something from the experience...
 
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StephenM said:
I was going to make a humorous (to me, anyway) reply, but I think a more serious one would be better. The history of science and particularly experimental science shows that unexpected results, or results that differ widely from the theoretical calculations can be indicative of an incomplete or false theory. At any rate, they should be examined from a standpoint of attempting to explain them rather than dismissing them out if hand as experimental errors.

Hence my attempt to find an explanation that isn't user error. A slight discrepancy in the holder, unnoticed if a longer lens is used, could be revealed with a shorter lens; even a slight misloading of the film holder could be a cause.

Just my attempt to extract something from the experience...
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I've only used that particular holder once before, but the images I shot with it are both sharp (well, apart from some obvious movement errors, and artifacts from the poor quality yellow filter I had issues with). I will keep an eye on the results next time I use that holder to rule out any consistent problem, but I'm still erring towards me being at fault for now.
 
Well, I have to admit that I've missed focus on occasions (too numerous to mention :) )
 
My first ever colour large format shot.

I had expected this to be terrible - on the day I realised that I'd messed up the settings, putting me in a foul mood and resulting in me shooting no more frames that day. I was tempted to rip the sheet from the holder and throw it away, such was my certainty that it was a wasted effort. I didn't though, instead leaving the exposed sheet in the holder for another year until I got around to shooting the other three sheets I had loaded. I'm very glad I did - it's come out far, far better than I could possibly have hoped.

There's a lesson in this somewhere about not giving up. :D

Chamonix 045N-1
Scneider-Kreuznach Super-Angulon 5.6/90
Kodak Ektar
Lab developed
Home scanned and converted with Negative Lab Pro


Autumn in Padley Gorge by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

Click through for the large version.
 
Large format musings.

I have been shooting 4x5 on and off for a while, most recently with a speed graphic. A friend has got himself an intrepid 10x8 and it has piqued my interest. Deep down I would LOVE a more substantial camera such as a Deardorff, Chamonix or Toyo. However the price point of the intrepid can not be overlooked. Part of me thinks it would just be a stop gap and instead I should save for a lifer camera but the money saved by buying the Intrepid would pay for a lot of film!
 
FishyFish said:
My first ever colour large format shot.

I had expected this to be terrible - on the day I realised that I'd messed up the settings, putting me in a foul mood and resulting in me shooting no more frames that day. I was tempted to rip the sheet from the holder and throw it away, such was my certainty that it was a wasted effort. I didn't though, instead leaving the exposed sheet in the holder for another year until I got around to shooting the other three sheets I had loaded. I'm very glad I did - it's come out far, far better than I could possibly have hoped.

There's a lesson in this somewhere about not giving up. :D

Chamonix 045N-1
Scneider-Kreuznach Super-Angulon 5.6/90
Kodak Ektar
Lab developed
Home scanned and converted with Negative Lab Pro


Autumn in Padley Gorge by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

Click through for the large version.
Click to expand...
Nige that is lovely!
 
This is by no means a ‘good’ image. It’s literally a grabbed frame out the door of my workshop so I could expose an image, but it was taken with a camera I designed, using a sheet film holder I designed and developed in a dev tank that I designed, so it’s quite a surprisingly decent result overall!

DSC01776.jpeg

The scratches are a result of the sheet dropping out of the tray in the tank and me having to get it off the side of the tank with a metal scraper…

Lens - Schneider 90mm F8, handheld
Film - Avifot 200, Exposed at 400
Developed in 510 Pyro
 
FishyFish said:
My first ever colour large format shot.

I had expected this to be terrible - on the day I realised that I'd messed up the settings, putting me in a foul mood and resulting in me shooting no more frames that day. I was tempted to rip the sheet from the holder and throw it away, such was my certainty that it was a wasted effort. I didn't though, instead leaving the exposed sheet in the holder for another year until I got around to shooting the other three sheets I had loaded. I'm very glad I did - it's come out far, far better than I could possibly have hoped.

There's a lesson in this somewhere about not giving up. :D

Chamonix 045N-1
Scneider-Kreuznach Super-Angulon 5.6/90
Kodak Ektar
Lab developed
Home scanned and converted with Negative Lab Pro


Autumn in Padley Gorge by fishyfish_arcade, on Flickr

Click through for the large version.
Click to expand...
Great tones and detail, not a lot "messed up" about that at all
 
stevelmx5 said:
This is by no means a ‘good’ image. It’s literally a grabbed frame out the door of my workshop so I could expose an image, but it was taken with a camera I designed, using a sheet film holder I designed and developed in a dev tank that I designed, so it’s quite a surprisingly decent result overall!

View attachment 440410

The scratches are a result of the sheet dropping out of the tray in the tank and me having to get it off the side of the tank with a metal scraper…

Lens - Schneider 90mm F8, handheld
Film - Avifot 200, Exposed at 400
Developed in 510 Pyro
Click to expand...
More magic, Steve. Looking forward to learning more about this...
 
ChrisR said:
More magic, Steve. Looking forward to learning more about this...
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Thanks Chris. I haven't developed any film at home for about 2 years so I needed a refresher! I'll post more abut the new kit soon, although I've got another sheet (of the same scene) that I need to develop once I've sorted out the redesigned dev tank.
 
Yesterday I noticed that the bottom drawer of my desk wouldn't close properly. After a few unsuccessful attempts to ram it home, I pulled it out, and discovered a pile of stuff that had fallen out of the backs of the higher drawers. One item was a missing filter folder, another was an unopened envelope, obviously a fleabay purchase from Singapore, that turned out to contain a 58mm thread Hoya CPL filter (for which I have no applicable lenses, what was I thinking?), and another was an unopened packet probably from AG Photolab (from the distinctive font they use). It turned out to contain an Ilford Delta 100 4x5 box with EXPOSED written across the front in my handwriting. It was the full 3 layer box with an envelope inside... with something in it. Cue anticipation... turns out to be two pieces of stiff card to protect negatives!

Now as far as large format goes, I have gone from zero to... well, zero! But when I was climbing the little hill in between the two zeros, after acquisition of my Chroma, I remember needing a spare film box to put exposed film in to send to the lab. This is it. When I sold my kit, the box was clearly down the back of the drawer, so @FishyFish didn't get it, and I suspect he's passed that stage by now.

Anyway, if anyone in the UK, for whatever reason, needs a 4x5 box for exposed film to send to the lab, please let me know!
 
My Speed Graphic with Aero Ektar sold yesterday so I am now very much in the market for an 8x10 and am open to suggestions and recommendations. My thoughts so far are.....

The Intrepid, whilst cheap and looking like very good value, may leave me a little disappointed as I have my heart set on something more substantial. I can't afford a brand new Chamonix and recently missed one on Ffordes for what was an affordable price. The Svedovsky looks very nice and is hand built to order with a 3-4 month lead time. This is winning at the moment.
Ffordes DO have a Toyo 810Mii in currently but I am not sure I would like the all metal construction and weight long term, although I believe they are a very good camera and very smooth to use. This is tempting me.

Any thoughts welcome to help me decide. My enlarger is up to 6x7 so I will be able to contact print from an 8x10 and I have a V700 for scanning.

(I will miss the Aero Ektar however it is quite a specific look wide open which I can possibly live without)
 
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This won't really help you, as I've just checked prices to get an idea of your budget. I have an Intrepid 10x8, and also a Canham standard wood 10x8. The Intrepid is half the weight of the Canham, which in turn is about half the weight of the Lotus ffords currently have.

The Canham is very versatile, with full movements front and rear and a long bellows draw. You might consider rear swing and tilt more useful with a 10x8 camera, notwithstanding the distortion that using them brings, as they can give you slightly more lens coverage if you have lenses that are at their limit of coversge at 10x8. I mention this as some of the cameras you mentioned have no swing on the rear. There is a metal Canham 10x8 for sale at Catlabs (fixed back but light). I have metal Canham 5x4 and 5x7 cameras which I wouldn't part with.
 
StephenM said:
This won't really help you, as I've just checked prices to get an idea of your budget. I have an Intrepid 10x8, and also a Canham standard wood 10x8. The Intrepid is half the weight of the Canham, which in turn is about half the weight of the Lotus ffords currently have.

The Canham is very versatile, with full movements front and rear and a long bellows draw. You might consider rear swing and tilt more useful with a 10x8 camera, notwithstanding the distortion that using them brings, as they can give you slightly more lens coverage if you have lenses that are at their limit of coversge at 10x8. I mention this as some of the cameras you mentioned have no swing on the rear. There is a metal Canham 10x8 for sale at Catlabs (fixed back but light). I have metal Canham 5x4 and 5x7 cameras which I wouldn't part with.
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Thanks for the information.

Yes, sadly my budget isn't huge. It can't stretch to the Canham you mention, especially when you factor in import fees.

I honestly don't know which way to go. The Lotus is definitely out of my budget. The Toyo isn't and it looks good and all the reviews I've seen are good but it's also heavy and not very aesthetically pleasing.

One things for sure. Used 8x10 in the uk are thin on the ground.

There is a Deardorff that I was offered for a good price, however the base has split along one seam which I believe is common with them. The internet has mixed things about this. Some say it's fine and useable whilst others say to avoid at all costs. I fear that would be like buying a classic car. Beautiful to look at and use but with headaches.
 
Downhill Specialist said:
Thanks for the information.

Yes, sadly my budget isn't huge. It can't stretch to the Canham you mention, especially when you factor in import fees.

I honestly don't know which way to go. The Lotus is definitely out of my budget. The Toyo isn't and it looks good and all the reviews I've seen are good but it's also heavy and not very aesthetically pleasing.

One things for sure. Used 8x10 in the uk are thin on the ground.

There is a Deardorff that I was offered for a good price, however the base has split along one seam which I believe is common with them. The internet has mixed things about this. Some say it's fine and useable whilst others say to avoid at all costs. I fear that would be like buying a classic car. Beautiful to look at and use but with headaches.
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Having had a look at the Catlabs site referenced by @StephenM , I ran the Chamonix 5x7 through the Gov website and it said 0% duty and only vat to pay. (still can't justify it though :rolleyes:)
 
One thing to remember (well, one of many :)) is that large format cameras are varied in how they work. What suits one person may well not suit another. The best advice I can give, all things considered, is to start with the Intrepid and see how you get on with the format and how the Intrepid works. They do make a black edition now, which might be more tempting, depending on how you view the wood version... The biggest limitation in use with the Intrepid is the short bellows, as my longest focal length is 600mm (which will focus to infinity on my Canham 5x7, as Canham typically produces triple extension cameras). Other than that, it's significantly lighter than anything else, and if you're carrying it any distance you may come to appreciate that.

For what it's worth, my Canham 10x8 came from France via a French sale site. I haven't seen one for sale in the UK.
 
StephenM said:
One thing to remember (well, one of many :)) is that large format cameras are varied in how they work. What suits one person may well not suit another. The best advice I can give, all things considered, is to start with the Intrepid and see how you get on with the format and how the Intrepid works. They do make a black edition now, which might be more tempting, depending on how you view the wood version... The biggest limitation in use with the Intrepid is the short bellows, as my longest focal length is 600mm (which will focus to infinity on my Canham 5x7, as Canham typically produces triple extension cameras). Other than that, it's significantly lighter than anything else, and if you're carrying it any distance you may come to appreciate that.

For what it's worth, my Canham 10x8 came from France via a French sale site. I haven't seen one for sale in the UK.
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Which model Intrepid do you have? I think I have watched every review of them and am massively on the fence. A friend of mine has one though and likes it and all new orders come with a bail back which does appeal.

Edit : Just put one into my 'cart' with fresnel and lens board and a discount code and for £599, it seems ridiculously good value. I would just need a DDS (£89 from Ffordes) and some film. I just can't get over the fact that I may want something more substantial.
 
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It's the Mark 2 version. You can't argue with the low price, providing that it actually works. All it really needs to do is provide a rigid front and rear standard, have light tight bellows, and a focusing screen that occupies the same position as the film will. On this last point, you should be aware that a batch escaped a while back where the screen was slightly out, and Intrepid fixed it quickly. See Mat Marrash's "Large Format Friday" Youtube channel for his review (look for final thoughts on the camera). I strongly suspect that they are very careful not to repeat this...

There are operational elements I don't like. The Philips design where you screw the front standard in position to set up the camera seems slightly more long winded than just pulling it forward; and the magnets that hold the back in place are so strong that I was afraid I was going to break something the first time I changed orientation. The Philips design is also used by the Chamonix as you know.

WYC had some 10x8 holders when I last looked, a few pounds under that Ffords price, and even more now that it's 40% off time - if they have any left.
 
Just checked - only half plate holders left now :(.
 
StephenM said:
It's the Mark 2 version. You can't argue with the low price, providing that it actually works. All it really needs to do is provide a rigid front and rear standard, have light tight bellows, and a focusing screen that occupies the same position as the film will. On this last point, you should be aware that a batch escaped a while back where the screen was slightly out, and Intrepid fixed it quickly. See Mat Marrash's "Large Format Friday" Youtube channel for his review (look for final thoughts on the camera). I strongly suspect that they are very careful not to repeat this...

There are operational elements I don't like. The Philips design where you screw the front standard in position to set up the camera seems slightly more long winded than just pulling it forward; and the magnets that hold the back in place are so strong that I was afraid I was going to break something the first time I changed orientation. The Philips design is also used by the Chamonix as you know.

WYC had some 10x8 holders when I last looked, a few pounds under that Ffords price, and even more now that it's 40% off time - if they have any left.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Stephen.

Yes I've seen Mat's video. In fact I've probably digested most 8x10 videos on there now. Frustratingly, some are really poor quality (not Mat, his are excellent).

I did a little more reading and research last night and I think I'm going to order the Svedovsky. Has the same design you describe above but seems to have beautiful craftsmanship.
 
soupdragon said:
Well here it is, my very very first 8X10 slide hanging up to dry.
I did scratch it although in fairness, Kodak ektar emulsion is very soft when wet.
I'll have a go at scanning it later.

View attachment 441255
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And to think I'd just decided to give up my pursuit of 8x10 to commit to 4x5.....and then you go post this!!

Slides are beautiful, especially at this size!
 
Downhill Specialist said:
And to think I'd just decided to give up my pursuit of 8x10 to commit to 4x5.....and then you go post this!!

Slides are beautiful, especially at this size!
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Intrepid had 10% off and free shipping for Black Friday, so I guess it's just possible they might have something lined up for January sales? :thinking:
 
Downhill Specialist said:
@FishyFish

I have been going through this entire thread and am very impressed with the detail in your 4x5 scans. May I ask what you are using for them? I think mine are ok but can always look to improve.
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Thanks. :)

I use an Epson V700, using a scan resolution of 2400.

I use Epsonscan for B&W (and adjust the whites / blacks / histogram there) before tweaking further in Lightroom.

I use Vuescan for colour, making a RAW DNG file which I then convert with Negative Lab Pro (and, again, some further tweaking in Lightroom).
 
FishyFish said:
Thanks. :)

I use an Epson V700, using a scan resolution of 2400.

I use Epsonscan for B&W (and adjust the whites / blacks / histogram there) before tweaking further in Lightroom.

I use Vuescan for colour, making a RAW DNG file which I then convert with Negative Lab Pro (and, again, some further tweaking in Lightroom).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

Same as me, really. V700 and Epsonscan for B&W. Do you use the standard holders? I need to keep practising (and shooting)
 
FishyFish said:
Yes, the standard holders. I adjusted the holder shims to get the best focus when I first got the scanner.
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Will have to do some testing. Sometimes it looks great.

I do think that my shooting technique was to blame, too sadly. Shooting that Aero Ektar wide open was a challenge! Probably going to give 8x10 a miss, I think. Not convinced on the Intrepid for now and everything else is a massive investment.
 
soupdragon said:
You really should try it.
I don't plan on continuing 8X10 beyond my film stock but I'm pleased I have finally done it.
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Your slides look amazing! I've shot a couple in 5x4 and have some left.

I think I'm going to order an intrepid to dip my toe in. If I love the format, I can sell on at not much loss and get something more substantial. If I don't like it, I can sell on at not much loss.
 
There is an alternative if 5x4 isn't quite large enough, and that's 5x7. The negatives are almost twice as big as 5x4, and half way to 10x8. I personally prefer the aspect ratio to the squarer 5:4 shape. The camera is only slightly larger, and many lenses cover 5x7 without being as big and heavy as many intended for 10x8. The downside is the scarcity of film holders.

My Canham 5x7 is only slightly larger than the equivalent 5x4, and only 1lb heavier.
 
StephenM said:
There is an alternative if 5x4 isn't quite large enough, and that's 5x7. The negatives are almost twice as big as 5x4, and half way to 10x8. I personally prefer the aspect ratio to the squarer 5:4 shape. The camera is only slightly larger, and many lenses cover 5x7 without being as big and heavy as many intended for 10x8. The downside is the scarcity of film holders.

My Canham 5x7 is only slightly larger than the equivalent 5x4, and only 1lb heavier.
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Something to consider, thank you.

I notice colour film isn't really a thing in 5x7 but then in 10x8, it's pretty out of the game for me due to price.
 
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