Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

It seems a pity to have lost direct access to the drive modes, timer etc that is on the D500. D750, D850 etc. I assume the button bottom right on the back will do some things similar, but that looks like 'press/hold the button and move a dial' rather than just move the dial with the previous design. It seems a step backwards ergonomically, but then we'll have to wait and see how well they have implemented the touch screen. :thinking:
 
Cagey75 said:
Loads of people, why don't you? ever hear of bouncing flash?
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For group photos?

Only if forced to do them inside as its pishing it down, which is pretty rare (only done that once this year so far in 33 Weddings)

Can't normally bounce off clouds ;)

Other than that flash for groups is so 80s lol

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
For group photos?

Only if forced to do them inside as its pishing it down, which is pretty rare (only done that once this year so far in 33 Weddings)

Can't normally bounce off clouds ;)

Other than that flash for groups is so 80s lol

Dave
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You don't live in Ireland, clearly. Obviously I meant indoors, over here the meal is rarely done by 6pm and outside of the summer it'll be pretty dark, probably raining. Nothing "daft" about it, for someone who supposedly teaches photography your reaction to simple suggestions is pretty poor. Do you talk to your students like that? I'm not a wedding photographer btw, nor do I know-it-all, but have seen wedding photographers do just this.

Raymond Lin said:
Only ever used flash for group shots when inside due to rain and that’s the last resort.
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Like I say, do a bunch of weddings over here in winter and you'll end up doing it a lot more I'd bet. And would it be "daft" - no.
 
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Cagey75 said:
You don't live in Ireland, clearly. Obviously I meant indoors, over here the meal is rarely done by 6pm and outside of the summer it'll be pretty dark, probably raining. Nothing "daft" about it, for someone who supposedly teaches photography your reaction to simple suggestions is pretty poor. Do you talk to your students like that? I'm not a wedding photographer btw, nor do I know-it-all, but have seen wedding photographers do just this.



Like I say, do a bunch of weddings over here in winter and you'll end up doing it a lot more I'd bet. And would it be "daft" - no.
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You normally do the group shots before wedding breakfast, so most of the time before 3pm. 4pm latest.

I’ve done weddings in December and January, you pay attention to sunset and ask the couple to to be aware and to allot time to your liking. It makes sense to do it before food because every one is there and all the make up are just done for the ceremony.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
You normally do the group shots before wedding breakfast, so most of the time before 3pm. 4pm latest.
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What about when Aunt Nelly and cousin George have been missing all day? and only show up half shot after dinner :D You're a pro wedding photographer so I'll take your word on it. But I've been at a tonne of weddings as a guest and been pulled into late eve group photos. Often the photographers would have an area set up like a mini studio, say the base of a stairway in the lobby of the hotel or similar. They'd have brollies set up either side to ensure everyone was evenly lit. I'm sure modern FF cameras are more than capable of being stopped down with higher ISO to keep everyone sharp, depends on the look you're after perhaps? I don't see either way as being "daft" just because some don't do it
 
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snerkler said:
Before you even know if the performance will be any good??? :eek: Might be worse than the first gen A7 yet.
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Nah, I'd wait to see a couple reviews but I would wager it'll be as good, if not better than the A7III - they've had the time, got to see what Sony have, they're not going to come out with anything lesser.
 
@Cagey75 you're clearly having a fun/sarcasm day off :D

@Raymond Lin and I shoot Brides who don't expect Group photos to be in the dark when there's usually a period of enough light to do them outdoors, and yes even in winter that's normal here

If making life more difficult is an Irish thing then that says it all - stereotype joke there ;)

Anyway, lets get back on track as there's nothing more to add on this point I reckon :)

Dave
 
I love it my top screen and am delighted they have included this on this model. One thing that is useful is not having to use the main screen to adjust camera settings.

I set my camera screens to off as it is with no playback after a shot and this increases battery life massively. I guess you'll be able to adjust the camera with this screen and leave the main display(s) off (as denoted by the dedicated display on button) and save battery life.
 
DG Phototraining said:
@Cagey75 you're clearly having a fun/sarcasm day off :D

@Raymond Lin and I shoot Brides who don't expect Group photos to be in the dark when there's usually a period of enough light to do them outdoors, and yes even in winter that's normal here

If making life more difficult is an Irish thing then that says it all - stereotype joke there ;)

Anyway, lets get back on track as there's nothing more to add on this point I reckon :)

Dave
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It's hard to tell on here lately, any time you post any slight suggestion it gets jumped all over because someone doesn't do things your way!

For Irish weddings, most will be drunk before the ceremony and half of them will have black eyes and bloody noses by the meal. Now that, is stereotype

Just to back me up, this guy has done 1900 weddings and uses OCF:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFivEN6H99k


That's good enough for me, you stick to your rigid formula, but don't be afraid of learning alternatives ;)
 
toohuge said:
I love it my top screen and am delighted they have included this on this model. One thing that is useful is not having to use the main screen to adjust camera settings.

I set my camera screens to off as it is with no playback after a shot and this increases battery life massively. I guess you'll be able to adjust the camera with this screen and leave the main display(s) off (as denoted by the dedicated display on button) and save battery life.
Click to expand...


That's a good point I hadn't considered, that as you're seeing the exposure in the VF there's less (if any) need to chimp even in tricky situations - I like that :)

Dave
 
Cagey75 said:
It's hard to tell on here lately, any time you post any slight suggestion it gets jumped all over because someone doesn't do things your way!

For Irish weddings, most will be drunk before the ceremony and half of them will have black eyes and bloody noses by the meal. Now that, is stereotype

Just to back me up, this guy has done 1900 weddings and uses OCF:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFivEN6H99k


That's good enough for me, you stick to your rigid formula, but don't be afraid of learning alternatives ;)
Click to expand...


Oh well if one guy does it then we're sorted - sorry for doing it wrong all these years ;)

Always seems odd having an argument with someone about Weddings who doesn't shoot Wedding lol

And that's defo my last comment on this point :D

Dave
 
Credit to NikonRumors

Nikon-D850-vs-Nikon-Z6-vs-Nikon-Z7-specs-comparison.png
 
DG Phototraining said:
Oh well if one guy does it then we're sorted - sorry for doing it wrong all these years ;)

Always seems odd having an argument with someone about Weddings who doesn't shoot Wedding lol

And that's defo my last comment on this point :D

Dave
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It was literally the first one showed up after a 5 second search.

I've probably been to more weddings than you, not that it matters, I've also shot about 10 of them for family and friends. I just don't pretend I can teach others. If you were really paying attention btw, you'd have noted I mentioned OCF because a 24-70 F4 lens was mentioned, I suggested it as an option, not everything said on here is etched in stone
 
Cagey75 said:
What about when Aunt Nelly and cousin George have been missing all day? and only show up half shot after dinner :D You're a pro wedding photographer so I'll take your word on it. But I've been at a tonne of weddings as a guest and been pulled into late eve group photos. Often the photographers would have an area set up like a mini studio, say the base of a stairway in the lobby of the hotel or similar. They'd have brollies set up either side to ensure everyone was evenly lit. I'm sure modern FF cameras are more than capable of being stopped down with higher ISO to keep everyone sharp, depends on the look you're after perhaps? I don't see either way as being "daft" just because some don't do it
Click to expand...

Before the wedding you agree a shoot list, with the people in them. That’s the list you go off on, and I am happy on the day to wing a few, or people who turn up in the evening I can photograph them. But there is no chance of getting 120 guests back together again outside to shoot that group shot again just because Aunty Nelly missed it. I would be happy to do it, but you try getting 120 guests which by now some are a bit tipsy, some may have gone home early, some are in the loo or at the bar. You end up having Aunty Nelly there but 20% of other guests missing.


I also tell the bride that because I don’t know anyone there and don’t know the faces, I ask for her help in enlisting the ushers to gather the people on the list to ensure them are there when I take the photo. It also speeds things up greatly when trying to find Aunty Nelly in the crowd, I would be shouting names whereas they would go straight to the right person.


Also my style is the kind that is documentary, I am not known for my epic group shots so I won’t be setting up a mini studio at night to shoot guests, that’s not me so if they are expecting that then they hired the wrong photographer. In fact a lot of my couples insists that candids are all they require, it is actually me who often go back to say “let’s do 5 or so formals”, because sometimes it’s just nice for the elder members of the family who may ask for such type of photos afterwards.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Before the wedding you agree a shoot list, with the people in them. That’s the list you go off on, and I am happy on the day to wing a few, or people who turn up in the evening I can photograph them. But there is no chance of getting 120 guests back together again outside to shoot that group shot again just because Aunty Nelly missed it. I would be happy to do it, but you try getting 120 guests which by now some are a bit tipsy, some may have gone home early, some are in the loo or at the bar. You end up having Aunty Nelly there but 20% of other guests missing.


I also tell the bride that because I don’t know anyone there and don’t know the faces, I ask for her help in enlisting the ushers to gather the people on the list to ensure them are there when I take the photo. It also speeds things up greatly when trying to find Aunty Nelly in the crowd, I would be shouting names whereas they would go straight to the right person.


Also my style is the kind that is documentary, I am not known for my epic group shots so I won’t be setting up a mini studio at night to shoot guests, that’s not me so if they are expecting that then they hired the wrong photographer. In fact a lot of my couples insists that candids are all they require, it is actually me who often go back to say “let’s do 5 or so formals”, because sometimes it’s just nice for the elder members of the family who may ask for such type of photos afterwards.
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Personally i much prefer the candid, docu style, I know that these are the images the couple will prefer the most generally. Group shots are more a formality, but you still want them well lit, sharp and nicely framed. if they have to be done indoors, using flash whether bounced or pre-set up lighting could never be wrong IMO. If i am ever to do a wedding again I'll remember these tips though, cheers.
 
woof woof said:
You put them in the right place so that your fingers naturally find them. Obvious? No? :D

My point is that the display has to fit on the top plate and if it didn't perhaps the camera controls could be mounted exactly where they need to be.
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That was` kind of my point though, as far as I'm concerned the buttons and controls are already in the right place (at least they are on the D750, D500 and D850 for me) so then why not use the rest of the free space for a very useful (for me) screen (y)

twist said:
Credit to NikonRumors

Nikon-D850-vs-Nikon-Z6-vs-Nikon-Z7-specs-comparison.png
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Z7 looks the ticket for me, in terms of spec at least (a mirrorless D850 essentially). I'd be interested to know about buffer size, battery life (and the rest of the performance obviously). The D850 weight is without battery as it weighs just over 1kg with battery, based on this I'd imagine the Z's will be 750-800g so approaching D750 territory. Wonder how good the 5-axis IBIS will be, fingers crossed they've been looking closely at Olympus' design.

One big advantage Nikon have over Sony imo is their lossless compression, makes the high res files easier to work with.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Personally i much prefer the candid, docu style, I know that these are the images the couple will prefer the most generally. Group shots are more a formality, but you still want them well lit, sharp and nicely framed. if they have to be done indoors, using flash whether bounced or pre-set up lighting could never be wrong IMO. If i am ever to do a wedding again I'll remember these tips though, cheers.
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If they insist some kind of indoor shot….I can technically do it, I have with me light stands and flashes and also have a couple of umbrellas so in theory it is possible but it would also be very time consuming for a single photo, can even imitate Anne Leibowitz for a laugh. Also it is hard to find space for a large group shot in a lot of venues, with the restriction of me being higher up too.


Much easier to plan ahead and make sure they allocate you enough time before the wedding breakfast to shoot it, outside. All you need to know is ceremony time, wedding breakfast call time, sun set. In between is your window.


I have only ever done the group shot inside once, I had 2 flashes bouncing off the ceiling, yes it can be done but it really is the last resort.
 
snerkler said:
Z7 looks the ticket for me, in terms of spec at least (a mirrorless D850 essentially). I'd be interested to know about buffer size, battery life (and the rest of the performance obviously). The D850 weight is without battery as it weighs just over 1kg with battery, based on this I'd imagine the Z's will be 750-800g so approaching D750 territory. Wonder how good the 5-axis IBIS will be, fingers crossed they've been looking closely at Olympus' design.

One big advantage Nikon have over Sony imo is their lossless compression, makes the high res files easier to work with.
Click to expand...


When that large mount opening was first 'teased' my first thought was that it was to allow for a very good IBIS system. Being a FF sensor it needs more room to manouvre without the image being blocked by the sides of the mount itself. This is why Sony's isn't quite as effective as Pany or Oly's - they can swing that smaller sensor a good ways in all directions without any interference. If they do get it right, and it's as good as Oly's, with the extra benefit of FF low light, I'll be saving for one in the new year.
 
Well I have to say, although there is no chance of me being an early adopter, I'm starting to like how this is shaping up. I love lots of things about mirrorless cameras but have never felt truly at home with anything other than Nikon. If this thing is even close in performance to the likes of the A7Riii and A9, sign me up (erm some time). The only seed of doubt I have, other than the £££'s required is the lens side of things. I don't love the idea of using an adapter and I fear something like a native 70-200 f/2.8 is going to cost as much as the camera. Could be a year or two for me I think.
 
I used to shoot with a 24-70/2.8, in fact at one point I swear by it, however once you get 2 identical bodies with 2 lenses (35/85 for example is a classic) with 1.4 aperture on it you wouldn’t go back. There is more than just bokeh, sharpness, micro contrast etc. The way the 2 focal length contrast with each other as a set makes the whole set of photo more cinematic. It is like watching a movie you have a wide shot then you get a close up for a few shots and then you are back to a wide shot. Instead of this mishmashes of all the focal lengths in between. The 2 focal lengths compliments each other and the differences makes the other pop.
 
gad-westy said:
Well I have to say, although there is no chance of me being an early adopter, I'm starting to like how this is shaping up. I love lots of things about mirrorless cameras but have never felt truly at home with anything other than Nikon. If this thing is even close in performance to the likes of the A7Riii and A9, sign me up (erm some time). The only seed of doubt I have, other than the £££'s required is the lens side of things. I don't love the idea of using an adapter and I fear something like a native 70-200 f/2.8 is going to cost as much as the camera. Could be a year or two for me I think.
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Cost will certainly stop me adopting tbh. I didn't particularly like using a 2x TC on the 70-200mm f2.8 mounted to the D750 so I would guess using the adapter will have a similar feel. Obviously it shifts the weight forward which isn't a good thing imo.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I used to shoot with a 24-70/2.8, in fact at one point I swear by it, however once you get 2 identical bodies with 2 lenses (35/85 for example is a classic) with 1.4 aperture on it you wouldn’t go back. There is more than just bokeh, sharpness, micro contrast etc. The way the 2 focal length contrast with each other as a set makes the whole set of photo more cinematic. It is like watching a movie you have a wide shot then you get a close up for a few shots and then you are back to a wide shot. Instead of this mishmashes of all the focal lengths in between. The 2 focal lengths compliments each other and the differences makes the other pop.
Click to expand...

I also prefer primes these days apart from Equestrian work, but want to try a 300mm F4 too.
 
Just noticed something, as well as there being no dedicated drive dial I can't see an AF button either, so I would guess that you'll have to use menus to change the AF mode. I don't like the idea of that :confused: Hopefully you can assign an FN button or even the record button to AF mode.

The drive mode seems to now be via a button, looks like the bottom right to me. That's the classic 'drive' symbol anyway ;)
 
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snerkler said:
Just noticed something, as well as there being no dedicated drive dial I can't see an AF button either, so I would guess that you'll have to use menus to change the AF mode.
Click to expand...

There's a button on the left (holding the camera) side of viewfinder hump. The icon on it is difficult to make out.
 
Ed Sutton said:
There's a button on the left (holding the camera) side of viewfinder hump. The icon on it is difficult to make out.
Click to expand...
There is a pic that shows it clearly, looks like an EVF button.
 
snerkler said:
That was` kind of my point though, as far as I'm concerned the buttons and controls are already in the right place (at least they are on the D750, D500 and D850 for me) so then why not use the rest of the free space for a very useful (for me) screen (y)

Z7 looks the ticket for me, in terms of spec at least (a mirrorless D850 essentially). I'd be interested to know about buffer size, battery life (and the rest of the performance obviously). The D850 weight is without battery as it weighs just over 1kg with battery, based on this I'd imagine the Z's will be 750-800g so approaching D750 territory. Wonder how good the 5-axis IBIS will be, fingers crossed they've been looking closely at Olympus' design.

One big advantage Nikon have over Sony imo is their lossless compression, makes the high res files easier to work with.
Click to expand...
You mean Sony don't have 14bit lossless?
 
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