Nikon Z* mirrorless

SFTPhotography said:
Bigger files are better than smaller files.
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Maybe/kinda... e.g. the best color information/accuracy comes when 4 pixels record a single airy disk (sensor w/ a typical CFA).


SFTPhotography said:
If the lens can do it (and some of these super sharp primes can)
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No lens has been tested to resolve to that level... the ones that come even remotely close only do so at very wide apertures.


juggler said:
That's like viewing a 3 ft (diagonal) print from 2 feet away.
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More like a 5ft diagonal image from 6 inches...
A 61MP sensor has to be enlarged ~ 27 times for a pixel to render at 100um in size. And only a human with excellent sight can see something that small, and even then only from minimum focus distance.
 
SFTPhotography said:
I wouldn't entertain anything less than 50inch, even from 5ft away. Really, my aim, despite my relatively modest dwelling is 85inch 8k - TV with being able to hook my images up to it and being able to put my nose in it, see every fine detail, then walk back. I do that when viewing pictures/art work, I get up right and close, then take in from afar.

8k is fast becoming a visual standard. I'd get ready for it.
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Obviously not a fan of oil paintings then as getting close turns the image into a mess of colour and precious little else. Go to a photographic exhibition and get really close to the pictures taken by solid professionals and you'll see grain/pixelation; if you need to get that close, you've probably missed the point of the photograph.
 
SFTPhotography said:
I wouldn't entertain anything less than 50inch, even from 5ft away. Really, my aim, despite my relatively modest dwelling is 85inch 8k - TV with being able to hook my images up to it and being able to put my nose in it, see every fine detail, then walk back. I do that when viewing pictures/art work, I get up right and close, then take in from afar.

8k is fast becoming a visual standard. I'd get ready for it.
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Interesting. When I make pictures I'm interested in the details - the combination of fine details add up to create an overall impression. But when I view pictures on screen, in a gallery or on my own wall then I'm much more interested in the image as a whole and how it interacts with the space. I rarely get that close to a picture unless there's some particularly innovative brush work.

fwiw at my usual TV viewing distance I can barely tell the difference between SD & HD. But then I rarely watch it.

I agree 8k is becoming a standard. Given that most images are consumed in incredibly brief bursts on a phone I can't see that there's a serious need to support it - yet.

sk66 said:
More like a 5ft diagonal image from 6 inches...
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I was extrapolating from 300dpi for a magazine, not actual science :)
 
sk66 said:
Maybe/kinda... e.g. the best color information/accuracy comes when 4 pixels record a single airy disk (sensor w/ a typical CFA).



No lens has been tested to resolve to that level... the ones that come even remotely close only do so at very wide apertures.




More like a 5ft diagonal image from 6 inches...
A 61MP sensor has to be enlarged ~ 27 times for a pixel to render at 100um in size. And only a human with excellent sight can see something that small, and even then only from minimum focus distance.
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Intertesting.

Re lens's- yes -but if there are solutions. 1, stack the focus, 2, if there is no immediate foreground, shoot the wider aperture. Several of the Ziess primes will do it, as will probably Sigma's 40mm. Zooms, no chance in heck of getting there but an assortment of good primes. Yeah, quite probably.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Several of the Ziess primes will do it, as will probably Sigma's 40mm.
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No lens has ever tested at close to 266+ lines/mm resolution, which is what 61MP requires (on FF).

Are there uses...yeah, sure. But at 61MP you are well into resolutions you can't see in any remotely normal situation. BTW, that 85" 8k would only be about 1/2 of that (33MP).
 
8k is 8k no matter how you view it. a 45mpx image has plenty of cropping room to retain an 8k image, as said by sk88, 8k is about 33mp so really no need for 61mp images for that. I mean you could crop 1:1 to give an 8k image, but the file woudl have more noise than a 33mp original image so tbh it'd look crap compared to the same image taken by a 33mp native camera.
 
Flagging here (think it’s allowed), but I’m selling my 40mm f/2 in the classifieds if anyone’s interested. It’s a fantastic little lens - absolutely tiny, sharp and bright, but I just don’t seem to be using it, so can’t justify keeping it!
 
Soo I got my 400mm f4.5 with a 2x TC.

Damn it is so nice. I haven't edited the photos yet, not sure even if I got any I'd like to keep as the weather was crap and nothing was around. But the lens just feels so much better.. Its so weird having a quiet autofocus.

Hopefully, I can get out again with it tomorrow and have some better luck photo-wise.
 
Alisonfd said:
Soo I got my 400mm f4.5 with a 2x TC.

Damn it is so nice. I haven't edited the photos yet, not sure even if I got any I'd like to keep as the weather was crap and nothing was around. But the lens just feels so much better.. Its so weird having a quiet autofocus.

Hopefully, I can get out again with it tomorrow and have some better luck photo-wise.
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Looking forward to seeing some pictures of that combination
 
Rumours of a Z8 seem to be swirling even more so than usual..

nikonrumors.com

More leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications - Nikon Rumors

Here are some more leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications (see also this post): Sensor: 45.7MP (stacked) ISO range: 64-25,600 20 fps (120fps in JPEG mode) 5-axis in-body stabilizations: 6 stops Shutter speed: 1/32000 – 900s Electronic shutter only Autofocus: 493 AF points HEIF 10-bit support...
nikonrumors.com nikonrumors.com
 
chris321 said:
Rumours of a Z8 seem to be swirling even more so than usual..

nikonrumors.com

More leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications - Nikon Rumors

Here are some more leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications (see also this post): Sensor: 45.7MP (stacked) ISO range: 64-25,600 20 fps (120fps in JPEG mode) 5-axis in-body stabilizations: 6 stops Shutter speed: 1/32000 – 900s Electronic shutter only Autofocus: 493 AF points HEIF 10-bit support...
nikonrumors.com nikonrumors.com
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Looks promising, albeit I don’t think it would add much over my Z7ii for me personally. YMMV.
 
Lets hope if the announcement is imminent, that the much fabled 200-600 lens is announced at the same time !
 
chris321 said:
Rumours of a Z8 seem to be swirling even more so than usual..

nikonrumors.com

More leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications - Nikon Rumors

Here are some more leaked Nikon Z8 camera specifications (see also this post): Sensor: 45.7MP (stacked) ISO range: 64-25,600 20 fps (120fps in JPEG mode) 5-axis in-body stabilizations: 6 stops Shutter speed: 1/32000 – 900s Electronic shutter only Autofocus: 493 AF points HEIF 10-bit support...
nikonrumors.com nikonrumors.com
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All plastic build, no more than 45mp. Z9s off the grey sites below £4k. Z9 looks the one to get
 
Meanwhile, sub £4k Z9's with 3 year warranties....

panamoz.com

Nikon Z9 Mirrorless Camera (Body)

Why Buy From Panamoz.com? Free 3 Year UK/EU/US Local Warranty 14 Day Money Back Guarantee Prices include taxes and duties All inclusive prices with no hidden fees Products are 100% brand new and in box Express shipping with insurance and tracking Delivery in 7-14 business days only Secure...
panamoz.com panamoz.com
 
Not a great time. Had to put my Z9 up for sale after getting a diagnosis of a form of arthritis that means I'm going to have to cut down the weight of my kit to protect my joints and prevent as much damage as possible. Not sure what I'm going to be doing yet as love my 1.2 lenses so the Z8 if it is indeed a mini Z9 might help, but even then still a heavy setup. Not a great time to sell either with the Z8 coming. :(
 
PeteStewardson said:
Not a great time. Had to put my Z9 up for sale after getting a diagnosis of a form of arthritis that means I'm going to have to cut down the weight of my kit to protect my joints and prevent as much damage as possible. Not sure what I'm going to be doing yet as love my 1.2 lenses so the Z8 if it is indeed a mini Z9 might help, but even then still a heavy setup. Not a great time to sell either with the Z8 coming. :(
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That's the same reason why I had to sell my DSLR gear and go mirrorless. I loved my Gripped D850 but I couldn't carry it about with heavy primes, f2.8s or long telephotos.
The f1.8's on the mirrorless are great and the f4's as well. I do have some Z f2.8 (24-70 + 70-200) but they don't get the use they should. I've just ordered the 100-400 as I'm thinking the 200-600 is going to be too much to handle.
Hopefully the Z8 is a good compromise in size and weight. I was so very close to buying a Z9 as it'd have done everything I photograph, but size and weight put me off it.
If the weight and effort of lugging your gear around means it stays at home, then it's certainly better going smaller, lighter.
 
wilt said:
That's the same reason why I had to sell my DSLR gear and go mirrorless. I loved my Gripped D850 but I couldn't carry it about with heavy primes, f2.8s or long telephotos.
The f1.8's on the mirrorless are great and the f4's as well. I do have some Z f2.8 (24-70 + 70-200) but they don't get the use they should. I've just ordered the 100-400 as I'm thinking the 200-600 is going to be too much to handle.
Hopefully the Z8 is a good compromise in size and weight. I was so very close to buying a Z9 as it'd have done everything I photograph, but size and weight put me off it.
If the weight and effort of lugging your gear around means it stays at home, then it's certainly better going smaller, lighter.
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Yeah I'm pretty gutted tbh but right now it's not clear if things are going to get worse in the short term but a 2.5kg setup of a Z9 with 85/1.2 isn't going to help. I put my Z6 up for sale the other day but may just sell the Z9 and keep the Z6 for now which lowers the weight a fair bit. I nave the 24-70/2.8 which is pretty lightweight and the 35 and 50 1.8s lenses, but love the 50 and 85 1.2s. My 70-200 rarely gets used now that I have the 400mm so I might move that on as well. I'm waiting to see what the weight of the Z8 is and may just swap to one of those but it will still be heavier than a Z6/7 level of body. May yet consider a switch to Fuji to go even lighter weight but the Z8 may change that idea. As you say if the weight means they don't leave the house then it's not worth having and a lighter setup will be better. Don't want to stop shooting so the only option is to try and lighten the load on my wrists.
 
I'd try and shift the Z9 now, keep the Z6 and see what the Z8 is like. It'd be hard for me if I'd have had the Z9 and dropping back to a Z6 long term. The Z8 might fit the bill and you'd not have to shift the lenses which are epic. I use a Black rapid strap and it helps, only having to raise the camera to my eye when needed.
I don't know what type of Arthritis you have, but mine is from 30+ years of having Psoriasis and working in the building industry. I'm on Biologics now and they've certainly helped. Maybe have a read up on them and see if they could help your type of Arthritis.
 
PeteStewardson said:
Yeah I'm pretty gutted tbh but right now it's not clear if things are going to get worse in the short term but a 2.5kg setup of a Z9 with 85/1.2 isn't going to help. I put my Z6 up for sale the other day but may just sell the Z9 and keep the Z6 for now which lowers the weight a fair bit. I nave the 24-70/2.8 which is pretty lightweight and the 35 and 50 1.8s lenses, but love the 50 and 85 1.2s. My 70-200 rarely gets used now that I have the 400mm so I might move that on as well. I'm waiting to see what the weight of the Z8 is and may just swap to one of those but it will still be heavier than a Z6/7 level of body. May yet consider a switch to Fuji to go even lighter weight but the Z8 may change that idea. As you say if the weight means they don't leave the house then it's not worth having and a lighter setup will be better. Don't want to stop shooting so the only option is to try and lighten the load on my wrists.
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Sorry for your troubles.

I think MFT is worth a look. The only modern Fuji I have is a X100f, comparing it to the MFT cameras I have (the G100 seems to offer the best IQ of the MFT cameras I have and it does have a very nice EVF) I see little if any difference in IQ but some clear advantages for MFT such as focus speed and accuracy. As you move down the format sizes you'll lose a little of the thin DoF effect but the advantage of smaller lenses compared to Fuji might be worth the trade off plus Panasonic MFT focus seems to be pretty much instantaneous and consistently accurate at least for stationary and slow moving subjects.
 
wilt said:
I'd try and shift the Z9 now, keep the Z6 and see what the Z8 is like. It'd be hard for me if I'd have had the Z9 and dropping back to a Z6 long term. The Z8 might fit the bill and you'd not have to shift the lenses which are epic. I use a Black rapid strap and it helps, only having to raise the camera to my eye when needed.
I don't know what type of Arthritis you have, but mine is from 30+ years of having Psoriasis and working in the building industry. I'm on Biologics now and they've certainly helped. Maybe have a read up on them and see if they could help your type of Arthritis.
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Yeah dropping from the Z9 to the Z6 full time is not going to be a frustration free situation. I use optech straps which are neoprene and have some give so I can carry a heavy system on my shoulder no issues but it's mainly my feet, ankles and wrists that are the problem. I've been getting pain for a while with my wrists when out and using my camera or carrying heavy things but figured it was just lack of strength. But recently had what was diagnosed as gout but the anti-inflametories weren't working. During a consultation other things came up and then it turns out it's probably not gout as such but something quite similar. I'm now on strong steroids to try and sort my foot out but the Dr has pretty much said it will also effect my other joints long term, and the discomfort in my wrists is an indication I need to start taking care. The diagnosis of exactly which form of Arthritis it is and what long term treatment is not actually determined fully yet, lots of tests going on. But I figure I need to be pro-active and reduce the strain to keep my health longer term.

The Z8 might work, but until there is a release I wont know. There is a lower weight path to the 1.8s lenses if the 1.2s become too much which seems to give me a longer term plan, it's that or move to a lighter system now and live with that.
 
woof woof said:
Sorry for your troubles.

I think MFT is worth a look. The only modern Fuji I have is a X100f, comparing it to the MFT cameras I have (the G100 seems to offer the best IQ of the MFT cameras I have and it does have a very nice EVF) I see little if any difference in IQ but some clear advantages for MFT such as focus speed and accuracy. As you move down the format sizes you'll lose a little of the thin DoF effect but the advantage of smaller lenses compared to Fuji might be worth the trade off plus Panasonic MFT focus seems to be pretty much instantaneous and consistently accurate at least for stationary and slow moving subjects.
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The problem is I'm quite partial to a bit of wildlife photography which MFT isn't really that good at. However probably better for landscape in some ways.
 
PeteStewardson said:
The problem is I'm quite partial to a bit of wildlife photography which MFT isn't really that good at. However probably better for landscape in some ways.
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Whenever I think the gear is limiting I look at pictures taken by other people with the same kit.

I don't remember seeing any of your pictures before and wildlife isn't really my thing, you're in the position to be able to assess the kit and it's abilities. From my own experience there doesn't seem to be any clear DR difference between the one Fuji and the several Panasonic cameras I have so that leaves lens availability and focus performance. AFAIK Oly bodies are better for focus tracking due to their use of phase detect AF. Again, AFAIK, Fuji aren't known for cutting edge focus performance so if you look into going Fuji that'll need looking at too.

There is an active Oly MFT thread here and a possibly less active Panasonic one and of course there are other sources of info and sample images out there.
 
woof woof said:
Whenever I think the gear is limiting I look at pictures taken by other people with the same kit.

I don't remember seeing any of your pictures before and wildlife isn't really my thing, you're in the position to be able to assess the kit and it's abilities. From my own experience there doesn't seem to be any clear DR difference between the one Fuji and the several Panasonic cameras I have so that leaves lens availability and focus performance. AFAIK Oly bodies are better for focus tracking due to their use of phase detect AF. Again, AFAIK, Fuji aren't known for cutting edge focus performance so if you look into going Fuji that'll need looking at too.

There is an active Oly MFT thread here and a possibly less active Panasonic one and of course there are other sources of info and sample images out there.
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Thanks will take a look, I've not paid that much attention to be honest until now.
 
PeteStewardson said:
The problem is I'm quite partial to a bit of wildlife photography which MFT isn't really that good at. However probably better for landscape in some ways.
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MFT seems to be extremely popular with wildlife photographers (at least with bird photographers), can you expand on why you think it isn't really that good?

OMSystems (who now own Olympus cameras) are specifically targeting wildlife photographers. e.g. their Ambasador's page.

my.omsystem.com

Ambassadors

my.omsystem.com my.omsystem.com

As well as the Olympus forum on here (which is full of bird photographers, some who use Nikon and M43) I could, if you want, put together a list of pro- bird photographers using M43 (many with Youtube channels).

As a starter, i came across this today:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-hGaV7ijuQ


But, depending on what sort outfit you want to put together, the savings in weight by going M43 might not be as much as expected, and I assume that the Z7III, when it comes will give better wildlife AF, and be considerable lighter than the Z8,

And there isn't necessarily the weight savings you might expect e.g. Nikon 400mm f4,5 1.377kg vs Olympus 300mm f4 1.475kg.

Do you use a Monopod, as I've found that useful to help with prolonged holding.
 
myotis said:
But, depending on what sort outfit you want to put together, the savings in weight by going M43 might not be as much as expected, and I assume that the Z7III, when it comes will give better wildlife AF, and be considerable lighter than the Z8,

And there isn't necessarily the weight savings you might expect e.g. Nikon 400mm f4,5 1.377kg vs Olympus 300mm f4 1.475kg.

Do you use a Monopod, as I've found that useful to help with prolonged holding.
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The thing which makes MFT attractive me bulk and weight saving wise is that I mostly use primes and some MFT primes are truly tiny. I also have small MFT mostly RF style cameras, GM5, GX80, GX9 and G100.

Something I would always recommend is starting at the end picture and working back to identify the settings and the kit needed. If that can be done any bulk and weight savings can then be assessed as worthwhile or not.

Good luck with this Pete. I hope that one way or another you can continue to enjoy this hobby and take the sort of picture you want and get the results you want.
 
woof woof said:
The thing which makes MFT attractive me bulk and weight saving wise is that I mostly use primes and some MFT primes are truly tiny. I also have small MFT mostly RF style cameras, GM5, GX80, GX9 and G100.
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Yes, it's very dependent on individual needs, overall there are good savings in weight and bulk with M43,

However, as someone who has Nikon and Olympus and trying to plan my camera gear for my "old age" it's not as straightforward as it might seem.
 
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For me with weight being the main issue actually Nikon do have a lot going for them. The Z9 is a beast ( which didn't worry me back in the D3 days where I lugged 2 of them around all day at weddings ) and the f1.2 lenses are heavy, but everything else is actually very light weight. The 400/4.5 isn't something you can match anywhere else. The problem for me is the autofocus on the lighter bodies is just frustrating. That's where the Z8 comes in if it does end up being a baby Z9 and does come in significantly lighter. My thoughts were to sell the Z9, then get a Z7ii from e-infin, or a used Z7 as a stop gap, to replace the Z9 and the Z6, and bank the difference to see if the Z8 would fill the need as I expect it will be even more difficult to get hold of than the Z9 was. Or simply keep using the Z6 and see.
But I'm working out what to do if the Z8 doesn't fill the need or ends up far too expensive. And right now I think it's a switch to fuji for a lighter smaller body that has the AF that works for me.
I'm not sure the MFT kit would be significantly cheaper than a fuji setup and just about the same sort of weight having had a quick look.
 
PeteStewardson said:
Not a great time. Had to put my Z9 up for sale after getting a diagnosis of a form of arthritis that means I'm going to have to cut down the weight of my kit to protect my joints and prevent as much damage as possible. Not sure what I'm going to be doing yet as love my 1.2 lenses so the Z8 if it is indeed a mini Z9 might help, but even then still a heavy setup. Not a great time to sell either with the Z8 coming. :(
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Damn :( sorry to hear.

I know it doesn't solve the issue with lifting and using the camera but due to my disabilities I end up using things like a trolley to pull my camera gear along (in its bag) so I'm not carrying it. I have a black rapid on despite it annoying me at times, so if I do drop the camera it doesn't hit the ground. I drop things a lot, and I'm surprised that my old cameras survived the falls they had.

I'm going to start taking my tripod out with me more so that can support the weight. I haven't for ages as it can be annoying to get space in hides but my back is killing me. I thought I'd injured myself due to using a crutch & twisting weird. But think it's actually the z9 as it only happened after I got this.

Trolley isn't perfect as some of the hides are on paths covered in mud, some upstairs etc but I might try to get one with better tyres for the muddy paths.
 
Nikon Z9 users; are you using Photoshop to process your RAWs? I just had to uninstall and reinstall, and now the level of noise is ludicrous. I opened them in Nikon NX and the difference is night and day.

What have I not ticked/messed up?
 
Alisonfd said:
Damn :( sorry to hear.

I know it doesn't solve the issue with lifting and using the camera but due to my disabilities I end up using things like a trolley to pull my camera gear along (in its bag) so I'm not carrying it. I have a black rapid on despite it annoying me at times, so if I do drop the camera it doesn't hit the ground. I drop things a lot, and I'm surprised that my old cameras survived the falls they had.

I'm going to start taking my tripod out with me more so that can support the weight. I haven't for ages as it can be annoying to get space in hides but my back is killing me. I thought I'd injured myself due to using a crutch & twisting weird. But think it's actually the z9 as it only happened after I got this.

Trolley isn't perfect as some of the hides are on paths covered in mud, some upstairs etc but I might try to get one with better tyres for the muddy paths.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I’m at a point where if I pair down my kit then it’ll be less of an issue longer term. But at some point you never know a trolley might be a good solution.
 
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