Recommend me a portable backdrop

[bomberman]

Hi,

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I need a backdrop. I've been reading up on them and as far as i can tell there are three main types - cloth, vinyl and paper. I'm mainly photographing families in their own homes so it needs to be large enough for 4 people and versatile enough to fit into people's homes.

I don't think paper would last very long as kids standing on it on carpet would put holes in but if it's cheap to replace and easy to fit in the car (a3) then i'll consider that. I understand they're tare-off.

I've read that vinyl is the best lighting-wise but expensive. I don't know how well it holds up to abuse.

I've borrowed a friend's cloth backdrop, it had a 3 section pole (maybe 3m?) and it was great apart from the creases which i had to edit out in lightroom but the results were fairly pleasing. I like the idea of folding it up and throwing it in the car and anything machine washable is a good thing. I can't find it online, not sure of the make as it's my friend's works and he doesn't know much about it. Another thing i liked about it was it also had a black cloth in the bag, white is my preferred colour but variety is a good thing.

So can anyone supply any thoughts and maybe recommend a good one? I know there are a few lighting gurus on here and i'd rather get your advice first than buy a lemon. Budget £200 give or take.

Tim.

 

[Mark Anthony]

Lastolite hilite ?

 

[bomberman]

Interesting but it doesn't look wide enough for a family of 4

 

[TG.]

Interesting but it doesn't look wide enough for a family of 4

Try a 6x7 Hi-lite, you should be able to pick one up SH for your budget, it will fit a family of 4 on, no problem whatsoever

 

[bomberman]

A number of questions are coming to mind with these hi-lites. I would definitely need a train too because i want full length portraits and am not into photoshopping carpets out of shot but also:

a) they seem very expensive for what they are - £60 to fit the aforementioned 6x7..
b) If you're using a train does that not defeat the whole purpose of the hi-lite? Surely you would have to light the bottom of the train from the front with a couple of umbrellas so may as well just have a white seamless anyway?

or am i missing something?

 

[TG.]

A number of questions are coming to mind with these hi-lites. I would definitely need a train too because i want full length portraits and am not into photoshopping carpets out of shot but also:

a) they seem very expensive for what they are - £60 to fit the aforementioned 6x7..
b) If you're using a train does that not defeat the whole purpose of the hi-lite? Surely you would have to light the bottom of the train from the front with a couple of umbrellas so may as well just have a white seamless anyway?

or am i missing something?

Pretty much what you have said is correct, overpriced yes, but show me something related to photography that isn't, as regards lighting the floor yes you would have to do that, probably in the manner you mentioned, however the main benefit of the Hi-lite is the ability to use in smaller enclosed spaces as it's lit from the inside, if you don't need that facility, and will be working in a large room or studio, then yes a white seamless background will do the job probably better, just to add most people who use the Hi-lite in small spaces normally end up doing the floor in Lightroom or PS.

 

[bomberman]

just to add most people who use the Hi-lite in small spaces normally end up doing the floor in Lightroom or PS.

I don't really have time For that kind of thing so I think the hi-lite is probably not for me. And I still don't think 6x7 is big enough.

Has anyone got any seamless recommendations? It needs to be big/sturdy enough to take a knock and not fall over (onto a child's head). Or are they all the same quality?

Thanks.

 

[Phil V]

I don't really have time For that kind of thing so I think the hi-lite is probably not for me. And I still don't think 6x7 is big enough.

Has anyone got any seamless recommendations? It needs to be big/sturdy enough to take a knock and not fall over (onto a child's head). Or are they all the same quality?

Thanks.

How much space do you have available?

As others have said, the hilite is a massive space saving, and any lighting for the floor or PP work required with it would be required of any other type of white seamless. There's no easy solution to a white background, the nearest thing to any shortcut is a hilite (as it severely cuts the space required).

The easiest solution (for shooting) is a large space with an infinity curve and a limitless supply of lights (but most of us don't have that luxury)

 

[bomberman]

How much space do you have available?

It varies on the size of the room I'm shooting in.

As others have said, the hilite is a massive space saving, and any lighting for the floor or PP work required with it would be required of any other type of white seamless

I agree on the space saving part but it seems like a very expensive way of doing things if it's just being used with a train as a seamless. Surely doing that defeats the whole purpose of it.

I had some falloff and wrinkles with the cloth seamless I borrowed but I just bumped the highlights in LR and all the falloff disappeared, I can't see it being that easy with a mix of hi-lite background and patterned carpet.

 

[Phil V]

I agree on the space saving part but it seems like a very expensive way of doing things if it's just being used with a train as a seamless. Surely doing that defeats the whole purpose of it.
...

I don't understand the logic?

If you're shooting on seamless you need to light:

The background
The subject
The floor (a mix of subject light, background light and specific floor lighting if necessary)

With the Hilite, you have exactly the same things to light BUT you don't need the space separation between the subject and background lights (which also means your 'background lights' are lighting the floor at the rear of your subject quite effectively. To get an efficient clean white background with seamless needs 15" or more between background and subject, with a HiLite that can be reduced by more than half.

I'll guess you're not allowing anywhere near the optimum amount of space from subject to background and it'll be adversely affecting your images and adding to your PP time.

 

[bomberman]

I know about the gap, but doesn't the train block the light from the hi-lite anyway?

EDIT: I've just seen that the white one attaches to the bottom and leaves the backdrop translucent so i understand where you're coming from a bit more now. I am still worried about lying-down portraits though and also wondering if it can be used unlit to get intentional falloff as i have a gridded beauty dish i'd like to use.

Questions, questions....

 

[Phil V]

I know about the gap, but doesn't the train block the light from the hi-lite anyway?

EDIT: I've just seen that the white one attaches to the bottom and leaves the backdrop translucent so i understand where you're coming from a bit more now. I am still worried about lying-down portraits though and also wondering if it can be used unlit to get intentional falloff as i have a gridded beauty dish i'd like to use.

Questions, questions....

All of those! You can get black bottletops for a clean black BG or gel your flashes inside to get a nice even coloured BG (that'd go nice with a beauty dish portrait)

 

[TG.]

I don't really have time For that kind of thing so I think the hi-lite is probably not for me. And I still don't think 6x7 is big enough

To PP the floor white to match the background takes about 2 mins in Lightroom literally, as regards 6x7 not being big enough, i have had a group photo of 10 people on a 8x7 Hi-lite, so i'm sure you could easily get a group of 4 on a 6x7.

 

[DemiLion]

Why not just go environmental?

 

[bomberman]

You all seem to be pushing the Hi-Lite pretty hard, are you sure you don't work for Lastolite?

To respond to the above:

To PP the floor white to match the background takes about 2 mins in Lightroom literally

Tel, If you can show me a good way to make the grey/patterned/cream carpet underneath a 3 year old boy in a lying down shot white (as in matching the background perfectly) x100, in less than half a day then i would be VERY interested to know how as it would save me money and add to my LR skills.

i'm sure you could easily get a group of 4 on a 6x7.

Noted. How about a mother holding her baby up above her head? They seem pretty constrictive in that respect IMO. Then again nothing is perfect.

Why not just go environmental?

You mean become a bin-man?

SOME MORE HI-LITE QUESTIONS

Does it stand up on its own?
I only own 2 speedlites at the moment and i'm borrowing a third, will one speedlite be enough to light it? If i need two and one as key and one to light the train then will i need to buy another 2 speedlites?

SOME NON-Hi-LITE RELATED QUESTIONS

Can anyone recommend anything else? Just in case a hi-lite isn't suitable? Which i'm sure it is. But Thinking about it i would quite like a paper seamless as well because i am a greedy b*stard

What are the different standard widths available? And is there a preferred manufacturer of backdrop stands or are they all as good/strong as each other?

Tim

 

[sandrat]

I just use a neutral gray 10x20 long muslin that is stuffed in a sack. It hangs on 7' stands with the sectioned poles in between. Use shallow DOF and subject distance to background to blur it. Very inexpensive on the Bay and portable. Use 3 speed lights and 3 shoot thru umbrellas. Can't think of anything I wished I could do and couldn't with the setup.

 

[Phil V]

You all seem to be pushing the Hi-Lite pretty hard, are you sure you don't work for Lastolite?

...

You're missing the point completely .

To light a white background cleanly, without affecting the light on the subject requires a massive amount of separation. Seriously massive, a 6ft wide background I'd go longer than 12ft for an 8ft I'd go 16ft.

You clearly are rarely going to have that much space. So you have to plan your compromises:
not adequately lighting the BG and then adjusting in post
living with the wraparound lighting you'll get from the subject being too close to the background

Or you can follow the advice and use a hilite and to shrink the amount of space required .

Now we're presuming you're wanting to deliver the best quality results with the least amount of hassle - that's what the HiLite was designed to do, and it does it well. If you're happy with sub par results, do what you like.

You could read all the other 'white background' threads and see what other people do, personally when I want to shoot a white BG I use a massive amount of space If I needed to shoot it in a small amount of space regularly, I'd buy a HiLite.

You gave us a question, to which the simplest answer is the HiLite, you can feel free to ignore that advice, but please don't question our sincerity.

 

[bomberman]

You're missing the point completely .

To light a white background cleanly.....

No offence Phil but i didn't ask for a photography lesson. I've taken in all the advice about the Hi-Lite and you're probably right but i want some other suggestions, ie. to be able to explore all my options freely and openly. I did ask two questions about the Hi-Lite in the post above but you've ignored them. Let's not have an argument about it please, i appreciate your input and i've taken it into consideration and i'm grateful it's just i want to consider all options that's all.

I just use a neutral gray 10x20 long muslin that is stuffed in a sack. It hangs on 7' stands with the sectioned poles in between. Use shallow DOF and subject distance to background to blur it. Very inexpensive on the Bay and portable. Use 3 speed lights and 3 shoot thru umbrellas. Can't think of anything I wished I could do and couldn't with the setup.

Sandrat can you elaborate on where you got the stands and sectioned poles from? Have you got a link? Thanks.

 

[Phil V]

No offence Phil but i didn't ask for a photography lesson. I've taken in all the advice about the Hi-Lite and you're probably right but i want some other suggestions, ie. to be able to explore all my options freely and openly. I did ask two questions about the Hi-Lite in the post above but you've ignored them. Let's not have an argument about it please, i appreciate your input and i've taken it into consideration and i'm grateful it's just i want to consider all options that's all.



Sandrat can you elaborate on where you got the stands and sectioned poles from? Have you got a link? Thanks.

I missed the questions, and I've no desire to have an argument :
Does it stand up on its own?

Yes

I only own 2 speedlites at the moment and i'm borrowing a third, will one speedlite be enough to light it? If i need two and one as key and one to light the train then will i need to buy another 2 speedlites?

Some people manage to light it with one speedlight, generally it's used with 2.
Depending on exactly how and what you're lighting I can't guess whether you'll need a separate light on the train. But I'd probably want to start with at least 3 lights.

In all honesty, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't be trying to get a white BG generally, I'd much rather do something more interesting / unique, just FYI

That said, the white BG look is popular w customers

 

[Mark Anthony]

Tel, If you can show me a good way to make the grey/patterned/cream carpet underneath a 3 year old boy in a lying down shot white (as in matching the background perfectly) x100, in less than half a day

I'm probably missing something here, but why have you got a kid lying down on a grey patterned carpet if you want it white anyway?

 

[Bayrunner]

.......stands and sectioned poles .

Spend a few more quid and get a telescopic pole- much more versatile in that it can be adjusted to any length, rather than a sectional....

Have a google of Lastolite 1108 to see one of the better quality kits.... (other makes are available!)

 

[TG.]

You're missing the point completely .

To light a white background cleanly, without affecting the light on the subject requires a massive amount of separation. Seriously massive, a 6ft wide background I'd go longer than 12ft for an 8ft I'd go 16ft.

You clearly are rarely going to have that much space. So you have to plan your compromises:
not adequately lighting the BG and then adjusting in post
living with the wraparound lighting you'll get from the subject being too close to the background

Or you can follow the advice and use a hilite and to shrink the amount of space required .

Now we're presuming you're wanting to deliver the best quality results with the least amount of hassle - that's what the HiLite was designed to do, and it does it well. If you're happy with sub par results, do what you like.

You could read all the other 'white background' threads and see what other people do, personally when I want to shoot a white BG I use a massive amount of space If I needed to shoot it in a small amount of space regularly, I'd buy a HiLite.

You gave us a question, to which the simplest answer is the HiLite, you can feel free to ignore that advice, but please don't question our sincerity.

It's difficult to add much more to what Phil has said, probably the only other things that struck me are, when asked how much space you have, you said it varies, so does that mean your shooting in clients homes or using a studio ? i'm guessing from your answer it's in home's, so again the Hi-lite is your best avenue, having said that it really depends on what you want to acheive, as for pushing the Hi-lite, personally i am moving away from it more and more, as i don't believe it leaves a lot of room for creativity, and the lighting is always pretty much flat, or the Venture affect as i call it.

In answer to this

"Tel, If you can show me a good way to make the grey/patterned/cream carpet underneath a 3 year old boy in a lying down shot white (as in matching the background perfectly) x100, in less than half a day then i would be VERY interested to know how as it would save me money and add to my LR skills"

I think you misunderstood, when i mentioned about it taking 2 minutes in Lightroom to make the floor the same white as the background, i was referring to the white vinyl floor that fits to the Hi-lite, as it is to difficult to light properly in small spaces, so you just use the adjutment brush in Lightroom to whiten the floor in line with the background (plenty of tutorials of how to do it on youtube)

Quite honestly i have no idea why anyone would put a subject on a patterned carpet floor, then want to change it to white to match the background, i have not the time or inclination to want to attempt it.

Just another thing to add if you are going to shoot from clients homes, forget material backgrounds, far to messy, as you will have to constantly iron it before each shoot, material in my experience is only any good if it's permanantly hung up on a background support system in a studio, paper backgrounds are great if you have a solid floor (tile or laminate) you could always get a large piece of hardboard to go underneath the floor section, if your careful with paper backgrounds they can last a while, and of course when they do get to creased or marked, you just cut that piece off.

Hope this helps a bit more

 

[sandrat]

Yes....stands like these. They are light duty but work more importantly for me light and portable. http://biSPAM/1ggNeHV http://biSPAM/GOQrye

You can make grey background any color you want. http://youtu.be/JDGn4VzEOlU

 

[bomberman]

Have a google of Lastolite 1108 to see one of the better quality kits.... (other makes are available!)

Yes....stands like these. They are light duty but work more importantly for me light and portable. http://biSPAM/1ggNeHV http://biSPAM/GOQrye

You can make grey background any color you want. http://youtu.be/JDGn4VzEOlU

Thanks for these

paper backgrounds are great if you have a solid floor (tile or laminate) you could always get a large piece of hardboard to go underneath the floor section, if your careful with paper backgrounds they can last a while, and of course when they do get to creased or marked, you just cut that piece off.

Thanks, good info.

I'm probably missing something here, but why have you got a kid lying down on a grey patterned carpet if you want it white anyway?

You definitely missed something.

when i mentioned about it taking 2 minutes in Lightroom to make the floor the same white as the background, i was referring to the white vinyl floor that fits to the Hi-lite, as it is to difficult to light properly in small spaces, so you just use the adjutment brush in Lightroom to whiten the floor in line with the background (plenty of tutorials of how to do it on youtube)

Ah using the train, I see what you mean now. LR is so good that you can just bump the highlights and whites, i love it. It got rid of all the creases on the cloth background i used and that was a huge thing with only 2 umbrellas and a key light.

I'm trying to keep it as low-cost as possible in case anyone hasn't noticed. Like Phil i'd much rather invest time and effort into non-white background shots but since that's what people want it's worth me buying something of my own.

 

[Mark Anthony]

You definitely missed something.

Clearly missed that your just a smart arse and that my time is wasted on you. End of any attempt to advise in a product to help you, find your own damn way.

 

[DemiLion]

You mean become a bin-man?

Nope. I mean learn to take portraits properly.

 

[bomberman]

Clearly missed that your just a smart arse and that my time is wasted on you. End of any attempt to advise in a product to help you, find your own damn way.

From one smartarse to another, kindly crawl back under your rock. If you can't touch a keyboard without being a **** then you should stay away from the internet.

Nope. I mean learn to take portraits properly.

Well your post was vague, to be honest. Whatever 'going environmental' means. I guess you meant NOT using a backdrop, not really helpful on a thread asking for advice on what kind of backdrops are out there, is it?

But of course, i'm sure you are an expert in your field, at least in your own head anyway.

I should have known that asking for advice on a Talk Photography was opening me up to all kinds of criticism and abuse. Despite descending into said criticism and abuse there is actually some good information on here so thank you to those that helped supply it.

 

[Yv]

Clearly missed that your just a smart arse and that my time is wasted on you. End of any attempt to advise in a product to help you, find your own damn way.

From one smartarse to another, kindly crawl back under your rock. If you can't touch a keyboard without being a **** then you should stay away from the internet.



Well your post was vague, to be honest. Whatever 'going environmental' means. I guess you meant NOT using a backdrop, not really helpful on a thread asking for advice on what kind of backdrops are out there, is it?

But of course, i'm sure you are an expert in your field, at least in your own head anyway.

I should have known that asking for advice on a Talk Photography was opening me up to all kinds of criticism and abuse. Despite descending into said criticism and abuse there is actually some good information on here so thank you to those that helped supply it.

And from this Moderator, one more such comment from any of you will result in a short holiday. Please remember your manners when walking in the door here. Thankyou.

 

[DemiLion]

But of course, i'm sure you are an expert in your field, at least in your own head anyway.

I wouldn't say I was an expert by any means, however a reasonably large public sector organisation was kind enough to pay me for over a year to take portraits, amongst other things.

Nine times out of ten, an environmental portrait will look far better than one with a bodged up backdrop. If you have to slot one in, then do it properly and charge accordingly.

 

[bomberman]

Nine times out of ten, an environmental portrait will look far better than one with a bodged up backdrop

I would have thought anything would look better than that.

Please go back and read the thread title, this is not a discussion between which is better a backdrop or an "environmental"...

 

[bomberman]

I would like to know more about how people get good lying-down portraits with the Lastolite Hi-Lite. It's looking like a good option for me....more money than i wanted to spend but as Phil says it will save me a lot of room, good for tight spaces etc.

Since the train is also a bit pricey (£100 for a piece of vinyl), has anyone tried using a white sheet as a train instead? I imagine there are a number of options for this, white lino etc. but i'd be interested to know if anyone has any experiences to share.

Tim

 

[Sir SR]

I would like to know more about how people get good lying-down portraits with the Lastolite Hi-Lite. It's looking like a good option for me....more money than i wanted to spend but as Phil says it will save me a lot of room, good for tight spaces etc.

Since the train is also a bit pricey (£100 for a piece of vinyl), has anyone tried using a white sheet as a train instead? I imagine there are a number of options for this, white lino etc. but i'd be interested to know if anyone has any experiences to share.

Tim

I've also been looking at this, and lying down I assume would be better as the key light would be close to the train?

Still would need some pp I imagine though.

S

 

[Professional]

How about this one?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/541213-REG/Impact_BGSC_W_816_Super_Collapsible_Background.html

I always looking for a portable background and also backdrops support, i got that support stuff already, so only remaining is the backdrop, and that one i posted getting my attention always, will keep looking around if i can find something better.

 

[Jerm]

You can use what you like for the floor.. it doesnt need to be a Hilite train.

In fact, I found the train to be rather flimsy. I use a much thicker gauge vinyl (and larger as well) which, because its heavier lays flatter without wrinkles.

 

[bomberman]

I've also been looking at this, and lying down I assume would be better as the key light would be close to the train?

as long as the key is wide-focussed enough i think you're right

How about this one?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ackground.html

That is very interesting. And huge! 8 x 16 foot.... It says it can be used horizontally or vertically. Probably good for groups of 6+ at 16 foot wide! Train doesn't look very long but white cloth or something like it might solve that one.

I use a much thicker gauge vinyl (and larger as well) which, because its heavier lays flatter without wrinkles.

That sounds perfect. Where did you get it from if you don't mind me asking?

 

[bomberman]

as per this photo the train seems quite huge actually:

This is the impact 8x16.

Looks good doesn't it? Thanks to Tareq for the tip

 

[Phil V]

as per this photo the train seems quite huge actually:

This is the impact 8x16.

Looks good doesn't it? Thanks to Tareq for the tip

Long train

But if they want a clean black background that model's far too close to the BG

 

[Diving Pete]

To the OP:
you will also struggle to light a highlight & 4 people with just a couple of speedlights - you haven't mentioned what they are or how powerful?

 

[Sir SR]

Long train

But if they want a clean black background that model's far too close to the BG

This is the reason I want to get a hi-lite - confined space (not that the hilite will help with a black background!). Having the background pre-lit gives me an extra couple of feet which i don't have. Also the ability to gel the lights inside appeals.

I have 5 lights in total which should be plenty - key/fill/ three between hilite and floor (knowing me though, I'll end up getting one more!!)

S

 

[bomberman]

Long train

But if they want a clean black background that model's far too close to the BG

Yep, you're right Phil, schoolboy error

To the OP:
you will also struggle to light a highlight & 4 people with just a couple of speedlights - you haven't mentioned what they are or how powerful?

I was wondering about this. At the moment i have two speedlights, both gn58. I normally use these to light the backdrop through a couple of umbrellas. Is the back of the Hi-lite reflective inside or is it the same on both sides?