Sky Arts Master of Photography TV prog

Hmm, I've just caught up with the latest posts on this thread and it got me to thinking;
Can you actually objectively judge something like this.
I think photography can be classified as both scientific or artistic (blimey, that comes from a discussion I had at college over 30 years ago when I was studying Photography)
If we look at photography like that then, sure, it can be judged objectively as a science. The composition follows guidelines/rules, the exposure is correct, the focus is sharp, the depth of field is right, it's been processed well.
If we think of it as an art form then can you really judge it objectively? Surely it's your opinion if you like someone's work or not?
In reality, photography is probably a mixture of the 2, it's both an art and a science and the judging should weighted more heavily against those things you can measure.
 
J40ADF said:
Hmm, I've just caught up with the latest posts on this thread and it got me to thinking;
Can you actually objectively judge something like this.
I think photography can be classified as both scientific or artistic (blimey, that comes from a discussion I had at college over 30 years ago when I was studying Photography)
If we look at photography like that then, sure, it can be judged objectively as a science. The composition follows guidelines/rules, the exposure is correct, the focus is sharp, the depth of field is right, it's been processed well.
If we think of it as an art form then can you really judge it objectively? Surely it's your opinion if you like someone's work or not?
In reality, photography is probably a mixture of the 2, it's both an art and a science and the judging should weighted more heavily against those things you can measure.
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It can also be judged subjectively.
You wouldn't dream of viewing a Rembrandt only from a technical viewpoint.
We make pictures, they're supposed to communicate. It really should have little to do with what can be measured.

We don't judge TVs programs on whether they make use of the screen properly or how many fps they're shot in. We judge on content.

I despair that people have difficulty understanding this.
 
Content is very important yes but i think also how they make use of the screen and fps are very important too.
 
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Phil V said:
:tumbleweed:
Watching the point go by...
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With a TV program or Film quite a bit is down to how the DP etc wanted it to look, so when you are judging it you must take that into account also.. So maybe viewing with an incorrect ratio or frame rate ect would surely detract from the content and not be correct..
 
do Leica add a simulated film winding sound to their cameras? Just something i noticed watching last nights, there is the usual click and then you get a little motor noise as if film was winding on.

*edit* looks like some of them are using film, i noticed the film name in the preview images, so thats me shut up :)

quote of the week from the old fogey "even stupid people can see beauty" when asked if they should shoot a regular landscape. tosser.
 
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Barry L. said:
With a TV program or Film quite a bit is down to how the DP etc wanted it to look, so when you are judging it you must take that into account also.. So maybe viewing with an incorrect ratio or frame rate ect would surely detract from the content and not be correct..
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Not a help.

I was responding to someone who suggested that there was no way of subjectively judging a photograph.
 
Phil V said:
Not a help.

I was responding to someone who suggested that there was no way of subjectively judging a photograph.
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But did you not say this " We don't judge TVs programs on whether they make use of the screen properly or how many fps they're shot in. We judge on content."?
 
Barry L. said:
But did you not say this " We don't judge TVs programs on whether they make use of the screen properly or how many fps they're shot in. We judge on content."?
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Ffs you could start an argument in a phone box.

I made a point, you decided to extrapolate something else for the sake of an argument, there's a word for that type of behaviour, let's not go there eh?
 
Phil V said:
Ffs you could start an argument in a phone box.

I made a point, you decided to extrapolate something else for the sake of an argument, there's a word for that type of behaviour, let's not go there eh?
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Eh? I was simply adding my informed opinion on a statement you made, no argument intended. What word are you looking for, all i did was disagree with your statement?

Jeez what is it with you people?
 
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Barry L. said:
Eh? I was simply adding my informed opinion on a statement you made, no argument intended. What word are you looking for, all i did was disagree with your statement?

Jeez what is it with you people?
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This has to be one of the most unfriendly forums i have ever come across. I have a feeling that, if you have a little more knowlege on a subject than some here and disagree with hierarchy, you are considered some sort of threat and are instantly attacked.
 
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AshleyC said:
*edit* looks like some of them are using film, i noticed the film name in the preview images, so thats me shut up :)

quote of the week from the old fogey "even stupid people can see beauty" when asked if they should shoot a regular landscape. tosser.
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Nope, they're all using digital.

As for the quote - he's right.
 
Poppypix said:
To a point I think it is a matter of not noticing what is in your own backyard. I am guilty of this back n Worcester. I never really considered my nucleus area or the surrounding areas. It wasn't until I came here that I really fell in love with photography, because let's face it. The place is stunning and has so much to offer.
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Well I'm from Worcester too, unfortunately it's a village trying to be a city, surrounded by flat boring fields devoid of any interest apart from the guaranteed dog and sheep s***e and where the only focal point of the entire area is the Malvern hills, and that's become clichee defacto photo taken by every tog in the area. You are far better off staying in Ireland, it's depressing here lol.
 
Barry L. said:
This has to be one of the most unfriendly forums i have ever come across. I have a feeling that, if you have a little more knowlege on a subject than some here and disagree with hierarchy, you are considered some sort of threat and are instantly attacked.
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On the other hand there are those that consider themselves and expert in everything and can't be wrong.
Most people are somewhere in between and thats the point of a discussion, to put ones views across.
 
J40ADF said:
it's both an art and a science and the judging should weighted more heavily against those things you can measure.
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Phil V said:
It can also be judged subjectively.
You wouldn't dream of viewing a Rembrandt only from a technical viewpoint.
We make pictures, they're supposed to communicate. It really should have little to do with what can be measured.

We don't judge TVs programs on whether they make use of the screen properly or how many fps they're shot in. We judge on content.

I despair that people have difficulty understanding this.
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Sorry J40ADF I agree with Phil, it's about the image, not the technical points or rule of thirds etc.
This is being judged as an art contest, with photography as a medium and quite rightly so, which is why you had a technically perfect landscape lose this week. It was a great image, technically perfect, but it evoked a response of, 'nice picture and colours', it didnt hold the attention for long.

Which is why GAbrielle's image of the fallen and standing trees attracted attention, it made you think about more, look around the image, living and dead, fallen and upright.

I was annoyed with Laura, the image of her against the black boulders was stunning and so much more than the image she presented, which was a great idea but missed the punch. The boulders looked like a close up of pebbles, but then the tiny figure in a ball gave great feedback to the size of the landscape and was in great contrast both colour and scale.

Marta also had stronger images, but took the judges brief about putting oneself in the landscape, copying Laura to an extent, whos had success doing this in other rounds.
 
Byker28i said:
On the other hand there are those that consider themselves and expert in everything and can't be wrong.
Most people are somewhere in between and thats the point of a discussion, to put ones views across.
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Definitely, that's what i am finding on here more and more. I only put my point of view and informed opinion but find i am constantly having to defend myself.
 
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Barry L. said:
This has to be one of the most unfriendly forums i have ever come across. I have a feeling that, if you have a little more knowlege on a subject than some here and disagree with hierarchy, you are considered some sort of threat and are instantly attacked.
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Not an attack at all, I'll try to be a bit gentler in future, I'm not used to people with strong opinions having such a thin skin :)
 
I think there appears to be a lot of very large egos on display.
Sorry, life's too short.
 
DemiLion said:
Nope, they're all using digital.

As for the quote - he's right.
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but in the preview/editing section one of the guys clearly had a film strip on screen with an ilford name along the side. As for the quote, it was just the pretentious condescending way he sniggered it to camera. The last couple of weeks has been quite watchable but i still prefered the painting series over this.
 
AshleyC said:
*edit* looks like some of them are using film, i noticed the film name in the preview images, so thats me shut up :)
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I found it quite irritating that when they were showing a preview reel of their shots, the thumbnails had been "dropped into" a background matte that appeared to be a faked "contact print" using 35mm HP5... Irritating ?? well - why bother - especially with colour positive images and a contact print with B&W film rebates... just simply "for effect".

(not a big irritant, on the scale of (imo) the arrogance of some of the competitors and guest judges on the show - but it's something that probably winds up regular film users more - if you're going to bother faking a film look, at least TRY and fake it convincingly - or better yet don't fake it at all...)
 
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TheBigYin said:
I found it quite irritating that when they were showing a preview reel of their shots, the thumbnails had been "dropped into" a background matte that appeared to be a faked "contact print" using 35mm HP5... Irritating ?? well - why bother - especially with colour positive images and a contact print with B&W film rebates... just simply "for effect".

(not a big irritant, on the scale of (imo) the arrogance of some of the competitors and guest judges on the show - but it's something that probably winds up regular film users more - if you're going to bother faking a film look, at least TRY and fake it convincingly - or better yet don't fake it at all...)
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I'd assumed it was an effect in some software I'm not aware of. Whilst the details are irritating, I like the 'selection' and cropping effect that looks like crayon / red marker pen.

I'm guessing they're avoiding showing Lightroom / C1 or whatever because they couldn't negotiate a product placement deal.
 
I have watched this series with interest and learned a lot

I did LEARN the Italian Photographer with the coloured Glasses is ignorant & rude :pompous: Critique when required should not contain personal insults, I just didnt get that!

Les ;)
 
Ive only seen snippets of most episodes and from what i have seen the young blonde haired girl likes to get her kit off and appear on all her own pics.
 
Phil V said:
I'd assumed it was an effect in some software I'm not aware of. Whilst the details are irritating, I like the 'selection' and cropping effect that looks like crayon / red marker pen.

I'm guessing they're avoiding showing Lightroom / C1 or whatever because they couldn't negotiate a product placement deal.
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But it's obviously lightroom! Must be something about product placement.
I'd like to see on the website a selection of considered images as well as the ones they submitted.
 
kingo15 said:
Ive only seen snippets of most episodes and from what i have seen the young blonde haired girl likes to get her kit off and appear on all her own pics.
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She does wear a flesh coloured body, in fact was criticised for it this week, which I thought a little harsh as the concept was good and it matched with the sand.
http://www.masterofphotography.tv/photographer/laura-zalenga/

The image - bit large to link
http://www.masterofphotography.tv/w...er-of-Photography-ep6-Ireland-Laura-Final.jpg

And a lot of her work is like that: http://laurazalenga.com/
 
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Barry L. said:
Definitely, that's what i am finding on here more and more. I only put my point of view and informed opinion but find i am constantly having to defend myself.
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Generally around here strong opinions can require robust defence when others have a different view, and that's not a bad thing. Normally it's kept impersonal, but there are a few who will also attack people personally or are plain rude, and with them, the ignore function makes the forum a much more enjoyable place where all trace of their posts disappears except for the post numbers sometimes having a gap.
 
As I no longer have Sky Arts, I've only just seen an episode of this at my parents ‒ #6 / Ireland. Can't say I was blown away by the quality of the photographers or their ability to pick their best photo.
 
Geoff Moore said:
Well I'm from Worcester too, unfortunately it's a village trying to be a city, surrounded by flat boring fields devoid of any interest apart from the guaranteed dog and sheep s***e and where the only focal point of the entire area is the Malvern hills, and that's become clichee defacto photo taken by every tog in the area. You are far better off staying in Ireland, it's depressing here lol.
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Omg, I love Worcester and to be fair, you don't have to go too far to see real natural beauty. If you think Worcester is a small town trying to be a City you need to visit Lisburn lol. I will enjoy the challenge of proving you wrong! :)

AshleyC said:
but in the preview/editing section one of the guys clearly had a film strip on screen with an ilford name along the side. As for the quote, it was just the pretentious condescending way he sniggered it to camera. The last couple of weeks has been quite watchable but i still prefered the painting series over this.
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I don't think that is possible. They have to put the memory card in to a little locked box when done, so any film would have to go in there too.

Byker28i said:
She does wear a flesh coloured body, in fact was criticised for it this week, which I thought a little harsh as the concept was good and it matched with the sand.
http://www.masterofphotography.tv/photographer/laura-zalenga/

The image - bit large to link
http://www.masterofphotography.tv/w...er-of-Photography-ep6-Ireland-Laura-Final.jpg

And a lot of her work is like that: http://laurazalenga.com/
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Apparently they don't like the body stocking too much and have told her to be free and embrace totally in what she is doing. The next episode could be interesting!

Byker28i said:
Oh and Rupert for the win!

https://www.facebook.com/BritishArmyPhotographers/posts/598372143510007

http://www.rupertfrere.com/
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I'm not ashamed to say that I cried when he showed his photo during the last episode and explained where he was within the picture. That was what they wanted, not a literal inclusion in the photo and he was intelligent enough to know that it would clinch the deal with his photo, that could have been misinterpreted as 'romantic'.

I totally got what they meant about the 'postcard' photo, as I spend half of my life getting that image to sell in the market over here in the North of Ireland. They wanted something that provoked more than just a pretty image that made you want to go there and they picked the right person to go.

I also agree that there is no need to be personal and that one particular judge really does need to wind his neck in. He only seems to speak if he has something negative to say. If he could be as passionately personal with positivity when it is due then perhaps it would be evened out a bit, but the man seems incapable of anything other than insults.

I still love the programme though and can't wait for the next one.

There are two real contenders in my eyes and I'm afraid they are both male.
 
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Poppypix said:
I also agree that there is no need to be personal and that one particular judge really does need to wind his neck in. He only seems to speak if he has something negative to say. If he could be as passionately personal with positivity when it is due then perhaps it would be evened out a bit, but the man seems incapable of anything other than insults.
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Proof that it's all in the editing then. You should watch some of the BTS footage. He seems to spend most of the time rocking with laughter.
 
DemiLion said:
Proof that it's all in the editing then. You should watch some of the BTS footage. He seems to spend most of the time rocking with laughter.
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Ah yes editing of the actual programme itself. I guess they want to make him the Simon Cowell in this show. What does BTS stand for? Sorry I'm not good with abbreviations.
 
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