Used phone blacklisted after 6 months.

Photopaque

Photopaque

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So I bought an iPhone from Game 6 months ago. Of course all checked and not stolen. After a week of no service EE finally advised me that last week the phone was blacklisted.
I would presume I will get my money back or replacement as Game offer a 12 month warranty. Has this happened to anyone else.
 
No idea. Who did the checking it wasn't stolen? I'd never buy a phone from Game. Far too risky.
 
No definitely the phone. Most phones are worth hundreds of pounds and are paid for through the monthly charge. I just wouldn't buy one second hand, give me a new one that is less fancy anytime.
 
simonblue said:
Yes,when you buy an phone on a contract,your also paying for the phone as well,and if you dont keep up the payments on that phone it will be blocked
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The only phones blacklisted that weren't lost or stolen where those deemed as fraudulent connections, phones weren't blacklisted just for non-payment (I'm not sure how the new terms where the handset belongs to the network for the first 6 months is handled as this only came in after I left).

But in general, no, phones aren't blacklisted simply for non-payment.
 
Dave1 said:
The only phones blacklisted that weren't lost or stolen where those deemed as fraudulent connections, phones weren't blacklisted just for non-payment (I'm not sure how the new terms where the handset belongs to the network for the first 6 months is handled as this only came in after I left).

But in general, no, phones aren't blacklisted simply for non-payment.
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I didn't think so. The certainly weren't when I was running Orange, then T-Mobile stores way back when.
 
Dave1 said:
The only phones blacklisted that weren't lost or stolen where those deemed as fraudulent connections, phones weren't blacklisted just for non-payment (I'm not sure how the new terms where the handset belongs to the network for the first 6 months is handled as this only came in after I left).

But in general, no, phones aren't blacklisted simply for non-payment.
Click to expand...

But the phone does belong to the company till it has been payed for,or else anybody could go out buy say an I-phone 6s on contract,then just sell it on without making any other payment ?
 
simonblue said:
But the phone does belong to the company till it has been payed for,or else anybody could go out buy say an I-phone 6s on contract,then just sell it on without making any other payment ?
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What do you think is being sold in Game? The nearly new phones there are almost always locked to a network.
 
simonblue said:
But the phone does belong to the company till it has been payed for,or else anybody could go out buy say an I-phone 6s on contract,then just sell it on without making any other payment ?
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No, the phone is owned by you, it's not hire purchase. If you don't make the monthly payments, they cut the service then, if you still don't pay, they take you to court.
 
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fabs said:
No, the phone is owned by you, it's not hire purchase. If you don't make the monthly payments, they cut the service then, if you still don't pay, they take you to court.
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And in the mean time they will block the phone,i have seen it happen :(
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Personally I think that's not the case, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
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You could always do an experiment. Get a nice iPhone 6S Plus 128GB on contract. Then give away the phone to simonblue and stop paying the bills. We can then see what happens :)
 
I've had a few friends this has happened to. Usually when they bought phones from FB groups where typically people will sell their contract phone to get a bit of cash quickly then of course have no incentive to pay their monthly bill.

The network blocks the phone from being used on all the UK networks. The phone will just appear as no signal. Hence why when you look on eBay there are so many that are being sold as "no signal". You can as I understand it take them out of the UK and use abroad.
 
dejongj said:
You could always do an experiment. Get a nice iPhone 6S Plus 128GB on contract. Then give away the phone to simonblue and stop paying the bills. We can then see what happens :)
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Nah, I always buy my phone in an Apple Shop and use a SIM-only 30 day rolling contract.
 
OK, from EE:

4.4.4
I
f You have not paid all or part of Your bill by the date set out on it You may have to pay a late payment
Charge. We won’t ask You to pay this Charge if You make a part payment as described in point 4.4.5.2 below.
You will also have to pay the reasonable costs (including debt collection agency costs) of collecting any late
payment from You.
4.4.5
I
f You don’t pay any bill by the date set out on it, You will have broken an important condition which is a
fundamental part of this Agreement between You and Us and this will entitle Us to:
(
i)
suspend Your SIM Card from the Network; and/or
(
ii)
t
erminate this Agreement immediately and charge You a Cancellation Charge; and/or
4.4.6
I
n addition to our rights under 4.4.5, if You do not pay a bill within the first six months of the Minimum
Term We may:
(
i)
place Your Equipment on a blacklist so that it cannot be used on any network within the United Kingdom,
including Ours, except for making emergency calls and using Wi-Fi. We will give You reasonable Written
Notice before We do this, which may be by SMS. We will remove the Equipment from this blacklist once
You have paid the bill and/or any Cancellation Charge which We have charged You; and
(
ii)
Remotely disable Your Equipment so that it can no longer be used on any network, except for making
emergency calls. We will give You reasonable Written Notice before We do this, which may be by SMS.
We will enable Your Equipment once You have paid the bill and/or any Cancellation Charge which We have
charged You. We may charge You the cost of enabling the Equipment except where something in point
4.4.7 has happened. We can change Your Payment Terms as a condition of this.



As I said, I am happy to be proved wrong, and indeed I was wrong. There are circumstances when they will disable the phone.
 
How refreshing :) (y)
 
simonblue said:
But the phone does belong to the company till it has been payed for,or else anybody could go out buy say an I-phone 6s on contract,then just sell it on without making any other payment ?
Click to expand...

As @fabs has said, the phone is the property of the customer not the network. (EE have recently included a term that ownership of the handset only passes after 6 months so is slightly different now).

You are within your rights to sell the handset if you wish (after 6 months on a new EE contract), it doesn't have anything to do with the contract and as long as you continue paying its quite acceptable.

The usual con that you see on Facebook etc is people do an upgrade and take out the offered insurance and then sell the handset, a couple of months later they report the phone as lost or stolen and get a replacement from the insurance (which means the original handset is blacklisted).

My info comes from the fact I used to work on a registrations fraud team for EE.
 
Photopaque said:
So I bought an iPhone from Game 6 months ago. Of course all checked and not stolen. After a week of no service EE finally advised me that last week the phone was blacklisted.
I would presume I will get my money back or replacement as Game offer a 12 month warranty. Has this happened to anyone else.
Click to expand...

Have you tried phoning / speaking with Game - I know some stores are open till late - and see what they say...

I would certainly contact them / go back to where you bought it from tomorrow if not.

Hope you get it sorted
 
They should do an instant checkmend check and then replace or refund if they can't replace, that's the way CEX handle this issue when it happens. @Photopaque should just go back to the shop with proof of purchase.
 
I managed to find the checkmend they gave me when I bought the phone and the original bar code stickers. I also found the trade in receipt so hopefully should just be a straightforward replacement or refund.
 
They can only block the phone within the first 6 months of the contract because their new terms and conditions explicitly say that for that period of time the phone belong to them. After the six months the phone belongs to you even if you never pay another penny after that.

Ricardodaforce said:
OK, from EE:
n addition to our rights under 4.4.5, if You do not pay a bill within the first six months of the Minimum
Term We may:
(
i)
place Your Equipment on a blacklist so that it cannot be used on any network within the United Kingdom,
including Ours, except for making emergency calls and using Wi-Fi. We will give You reasonable Written
Notice before We do this, which may be by SMS. We will remove the Equipment from this blacklist once
You have paid the bill and/or any Cancellation Charge which We have charged You; and
(
ii)
Remotely disable Your Equipment so that it can no longer be used on any network, except for making
emergency calls. We will give You reasonable Written Notice before We do this, which may be by SMS.
We will enable Your Equipment once You have paid the bill and/or any Cancellation Charge which We have
charged You. We may charge You the cost of enabling the Equipment except where something in point
4.4.7 has happened. We can change Your Payment Terms as a condition of this.
Click to expand...

dejongj said:
How refreshing :) (y)
Click to expand...
 
jakeblu said:
They can only block the phone within the first 6 months of the contract because their new terms and conditions explicitly say that for that period of time the phone belong to them. After the six months the phone belongs to you even if you never pay another penny after that.
Click to expand...
Yes, and? At no point it was stated how long the previous owner had the phone or not. Ergo it is factually correct that it can be done.
 
And?
dejongj said:
No definitely the phone. Most phones are worth hundreds of pounds and are paid for through the monthly charge.
Click to expand...

Thats what you are implicitly implying here, that the phone is paid for with the monthly charge, as @fabs and @Dave1 have said it is not a hire purchase agreement. Now obviously the contracts takes into consideration that they have given you a £500 phone and price it accordingly. EE make the 6 months stipulation in their terms and conditions, not sure about others, and having been an ee/t-mobile customer for over 10 years its a very recent addition.
 
I grant you that I stand corrected by the phone being paid for through the service charges. That is good to know that that is not actually the case. Although it does directly affect the pricing.

However that doesn't change the fact which I stated that they can block the phone for many reasons including non payment. That is absolutely factually correct.
 
Be interesting to know what would happen in the event a CEX or Game phone becomes blacklisted beyond the 12 months - would they still refund / replace?
 
I've just upgraded my wife's phone. She's going from a sim only deal to a 2 year contract, this is with Virgin.

What's interesting is that they call it a "loan agreement" as far as the handset is concerned and there are 2 direct debit payments (1 for the phone, 1 for the tariff) BUT, the person at Virgin told me "the handset is not locked to the network so you don't need to have it unlocked if you want to move it on".

Make of that what you will. "loan agreement" implies that the phone belongs to them but they seem quite happy for the customer to sell it on without even having to lock it.
 
fabs said:
I've just upgraded my wife's phone. She's going from a sim only deal to a 2 year contract, this is with Virgin.

What's interesting is that they call it a "loan agreement" as far as the handset is concerned and there are 2 direct debit payments (1 for the phone, 1 for the tariff) BUT, the person at Virgin told me "the handset is not locked to the network so you don't need to have it unlocked if you want to move it on".

Make of that what you will. "loan agreement" implies that the phone belongs to them but they seem quite happy for the customer to sell it on without even having to lock it.
Click to expand...
I guess like with most non secured loans, they don't care about the product itself. Just keep paying it. Alternatively there maybe a tax advantage as well, don't know which one though.
 
I think the bottom line is that buying a 2nd hand mobile is a risky move. I'd never do it.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I think the bottom line is that buying a 2nd hand mobile is a risky move. I'd never do it.
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I'm with you on that one. Too many unknown risks, unfortunately it is a big business with a lot of money to be gained from it.
 
Just as well there is a good market in second hand handsets as it would be very expensive ever buying a new handset if there was no income from the old one to soften the blow. Probably not so bad for people who prefer contract but I have never been keen on the idea of contract phones with "lock-in" clauses.
 
boliston said:
Just as well there is a good market in second hand handsets as it would be very expensive ever buying a new handset if there was no income from the old one to soften the blow. Probably not so bad for people who prefer contract but I have never been keen on the idea of contract phones with "lock-in" clauses.
Click to expand...

I'll never get a contract phone again. I like the liberty of buying what I want when I want it without having it locked to a network.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I think the bottom line is that buying a 2nd hand mobile is a risky move. I'd never do it.
Click to expand...
A relation of mine sold her phone to one of these second had dealers, I think it was Mazuma, she lives in the UK BTW.
she thought she had "wiped it" and apparently the company claims to do it as well.

About 4 weeks later she got a call on her home phone, some guy in Canada, had just bought her phone and wanted to know if there was any info on the phone she needed
before he reset it :rolleyes:

So I don't think I'd sell one either.
Besides I run them till they self destruct anyway :D
 
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Cobra said:
A relation of mine sold her phone to one of these second had dealers, I think it was Mazuma, she lives in the UK BTW.
she thought she had "wiped it" and apparently the company claims to do it as well.

About 4 weeks later she got a call on her home phone, some guy in Canada, had just bought her phone and wanted to know if there was any info on the phone she needed
before he reset it :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Maybe the phone had been backing up to the cloud. She deleted all the stuff on the phone, which then downloaded all from the cloud? Who knows!
 
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