Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

ChrisR said:
@Nomad Z would it work to buy square coloured filters to go with your Grads?

@Andysnap am I right that the Thornton Pickard is the tiny lens to the left, and the (allegedly tiny) Fuji is one of the larger ones to the right?
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Perspective Chris, the Thornton is about the same diameter as the Fuji but twice as long, the Fuji is just nearer the camera. ;)
 
Woodsy said:
When it comes to square filters for B&W shots, you can just hold them in front of the lens if you really don't want to use a holder system.
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I've been doing that with my grad filters when using them with the 35-70 lens for which I didn't have an adaptor (and which also turns the front element on focusing). I've always worried a bit about adding movement to the camera/lens, but not noticeable so far at the resolution I get them scanned...
 
ChrisR said:
@Nomad Z would it work to buy square coloured filters to go with your Grads?
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I don't have any grads. If you mean the ND filters, they're little ones that screw into the front of the spotmeter.They let me meter directly for EI 6 and 3 - the meter only goes down to EI 12. (They don't stack, but I suppose I could tape them together to go lower again...)

Regarding the screw-in 82mm filters, I compose, etc, without a filter, and then fit one as part of the exposure stage.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Any one used the Shanghai 100 4x5 film? Ebay for £22 looks decent value.
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Is that the GP3? If so then I have a few boxes of it and its very nice, a bit like fomapan 100.
 
It looks like its the same stuff, its very good for the price.
 
Andysnap said:
Is that the GP3? If so then I have a few boxes of it and its very nice, a bit like fomapan 100.
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I don't know if it's gp3 or not tbh. Must be really. I liked gp3 it's decent for the price, I've ordered a box of the 54 so I'll report back once it arrives, probably Easter...
 
Just worked out that my charity shop Cokin A filters are not going to cut it. What size filters do folk here use for LF (and 35mm)?
 
Personally I used Lee 100 mm x 150 mm filters for my grads, and 100 mm square coloured filters for B&W. These are big enough for 90 mm on LF (by quite some way I believe), and down to at least 24 mm on 135, possibly even down to 20 mm.
 
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Woodsy said:
Personally I used Lee 100 mm x 150 mm filters for my grads, and 100 mm square coloured filters for B&W. These are big enough for 90 mm on LF (by quite some way I believe), and down to at least 24 mm on 135, possibly even down to 20 mm.
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Same here. Using the holder with only 1 filter slot I used to be able to use them down to about 18mm, but that's way too wide for me and I don't own anything vaguely that wide any more.

I find I can also use them on my 65mm on large format, although I tend to only use it on 612 format pictures
 
When my only lens was a Symmar 150mm f/5.6, I used my OM 49mm filters on it (same filter size). When the range and size of my LF lenses rose, I went for the Lee system - as far as I recall in those days there was only one range, so without measuring I suspect it's the 100x150 size.
 
All my lenses have a screw on step up adaptor to the filters I got for my RB67 also handy becuase it means I use the same lens caps for all my lenses.
 
steveo_mcg said:
All my lenses have a screw on step up adaptor to the filters I got for my RB67 also handy becuase it means I use the same lens caps for all my lenses.
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Does the RB67 have square or round filters, Steven?

Looks like most have gone for the Lee 100mm, but I think that's out of the question for me, cost-wise; a decent set of grads plus base and polariser seems to cost more than I was hoping to spend on the entire LF system!

I think I'll probably go for one of the P systems, maybe Cokin again or SRB. That goes up to 82mm threads which seems large enough for any usage I can foresee in the future, and should have a competitive market for the filters themselves.

I know cheaper filters will have risk of colour casts, but any colour casts on my old Cokin A filters have not bothered me yet, and I haven't wanted to stack filters, so far. Anyway I keep reading that Lee has colour casts too! (I don't want that bunch of grapes, looks too sour!)
 
ChrisR said:
Does the RB67 have square or round filters, Steven?
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Just fairly cheap round screw in filters, they came with camera. They're ideal for b&w though and I generally treat screwing in a filter as part of the exposure stage, set shutter speed, set aperature attach filter, check shutter a couple of times, remove dark slide, expose, replace dark slide and remove filter.
 
From what I've heard, cokin are a lot better than they used to be. I had Cokin before my Lee filters and I only noticed the cast if the photo was quite far under exposed. Otherwise I didn't notice it at all. This was a good 8-10 years ago?
 
When I was taking the shot of my kit I thought I might as well take a few shots, kind off a comparison between the 4 lenses. So, here they are, all shot on Shanghai GP3 film (f16 for 2 seconds - ish) with nothing done other than a small crop so dust spotting and hint of extra black :)

Thornton Pickard Beck Symmetrical
Thornton-Packard-Beck-Symetrical by Andy, on Flickr

Tele Congo 240mm
Tele-Congo-240mm by Andy, on Flickr

Nikkor 180mm
Nikkor-180mm by Andy, on Flickr

Fujinon 135mm
Fuji-135mm by Andy, on Flickr

I know this doesn't prove very much at all other than all of them are reasonable lenses. I think the little Fujinon is probably the sharpest but The old Beck Symmetrical is extremely good for a lens that's over a hundred years old and needs an external shutter that's older than me :D
The Nikkor is also sharp and the Tele Congo probably the least sharp of the 4 however that can only really be seen by pixel peeping and we don't do that here do we? ;)
 
Andysnap said:
When I was taking the shot of my kit I thought I might as well take a few shots, kind off a comparison between the 4 lenses. So, here they are, all shot on Shanghai GP3 film (f16 for 2 seconds - ish) with nothing done other than a small crop so dust spotting and hint of extra black :)

Thornton Pickard Beck Symmetrical
Thornton-Packard-Beck-Symetrical by Andy, on Flickr

Tele Congo 240mm
Tele-Congo-240mm by Andy, on Flickr

Nikkor 180mm
Nikkor-180mm by Andy, on Flickr

Fujinon 135mm
Fuji-135mm by Andy, on Flickr

I know this doesn't prove very much at all other than all of them are reasonable lenses. I think the little Fujinon is probably the sharpest but The old Beck Symmetrical is extremely good for a lens that's over a hundred years old and needs an external shutter that's older than me :D
The Nikkor is also sharp and the Tele Congo probably the least sharp of the 4 however that can only really be seen by pixel peeping and we don't do that here do we? ;)
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Andy, They are very well executed and I love how you have lite them,they all look fantastic.
 
medwaygreen said:
Andy, They are very well executed and I love how you have lite them,they all look fantastic.
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Thanks Richard, just window light from the left and a large white card to the right to even it out a bit.
 
So Silverprint have sent me the wrong film, I ordered the 100, but got the 400!

On the plus side, a pair of nice Fidelity DDS dropped through the door this morning, shame I haven't got anything to put in them!
 
Is my Manfrotto ball head going to be enough for LF (specifically the Chroma)? It's a 494RC, with the RC2 quick release plate. It's rated at 4 kg, which technically should be OK in terms of weight, but I wondered about windage, or whatever you call the sideways effects of wind from the bellows etc.

This is in the context of a question about whether to replace my RC quick release plate gear with Arca Swiss compatible, see https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/travel-tripod-monopod-arca-swiss-etc.673475/. I already want to replace the monopod and add a travel tripod, although neither of these have any specific bearing on LF. The path of least resistance is probably to get a Manfrotto travel tripod with RC2-compatible head, plus any monopod and the existing 234RC head. However, if it were sensible to replace the 494RC with a stronger (and heavier :( ) head, then that would make the argument for change rather stronger!
 
I wouldn't be into using a mini ball head for LF - just seems a bit too flimsy, and adjustment isn't up to much (you've got pan, or 360° wiggle-wobble). I use the Manfrotto 410 geared head...

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/manfrotto-410-junior-geared-head-10890/

...which is decently rigid and allows for precise adjustment one axis at a time. The 410PL quick release plate also has a bigger area of contact on the underside of the camera. That sits on a Calumet carbon fibre tripod that's about the same size as the Manfrotto 055 ones.

The Chroma is lighter than my Shen Hao (which is 2.4kg - Chroma about 1kg less?), but lenses and windage are going to stay about the same. That said, the safety ratings for the 494RC and 410 aren't that much different - 4kg and 5kg respectively, but I suspect the geared head will still be more rigid. Either way, the geared adjustment makes a huge difference.
 
I've been using an 804RC2 for years with mine Chris which I think actually has a slightly lower max weight. I've never really had a problem, but equally I don't take mine out in gales
 
I’ve been using a ball head for LF for years now and never had an issue. With regard to the weight, I can’t temember what model I have, but it can’t be rated that much higher than the weight of my kit and it’s been fine. I’d just see how it goes and make a judgement from there :)
 
I’ve us d both a ball head and the 410 geared head and I have to say the geared head gets left behind more often than not. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great head but in comparison to the ball head it’s big and heavy and I’ve not noticed the difference in stability.
 
I've used both a ball and a geared head (and a three way head before that) and for my type of photography I find that the lack of precision of a ball head - specifically the inability to lock off directions of travel individually - make it a poor choice. In terms of weight bearing capacity, it depends on the model, as some ball heads are designed for very (VERY) heavy cameras.

Historically, I swapped my Manfrotto 029 head (three way) for the geared head (and then subsequently the smaller geared head). Hence I have a battered 029 head sitting around unneeded if you think it might help you. It worked fine with my initial 5x4 camera which was a 4.2 kilo monorail.
 
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Precision independent adjustment of the axes is the key thing for me. I'm not going to be sprinting up mountains, so the additional 900g over the 494RC ball head isn't really a factor. Or, to put it another way, that 900g is 8.25% of the total kit weight of 10.9kg. Since dropping it down to 10kg hardly makes things featherweight, precision easily wins.
 
I think I appreciate that a geared head is definitely better. But, also a lot heavier, and the ones I found (at around £800!!!!) much, much dearer. 900 gm definitely IS an issue for me. I was rather wondering whether a larger ball head would be appropriate, so it's pleasing that a few folk have found a ball head works for them.. At the moment I'm unsure... even if I do decide to flip over to Arca Swiss, I've found a conversion for £15 so I think maybe I'll stick with the 494 head and see how it goes! Thanks all for the advice.
 
My new tripod for my 8x10 has a ballhead (max weight is 16kg or something similar)and in the few trial runs I've done I've not found the ballhead to be an inherent problem.

It is taking a bit of getting used to though, coming from using pan and tilt heads, but once I've got the base levelled its pretty much fine
 
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Mmm, i use a tripod, it weighs very little, with normal head that moves up and down on both axis. It does have a reasonably big plate for stability but it isnt a specialist lf tripod. Its a Velbon Ultra Rexi L with s Velbon PH 250 head and has been perfectly ok so far.
 
robhooley167 said:
https://www.jessops.com/p/manfrotto...RVzwwWnwrwr90ionUY_rW6_Xrp5TImDBoCFHEQAvD_BwE
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Maybe you meant this one? https://www.jessops.com/p/manfrotto/xpro-geared-3-way-pan-tilt-head-96836

Costs only £150 but still weighs 750 gm...

Andysnap said:
Mmm, i use a tripod, it weighs very little, with normal head that moves up and down on both axis. It does have a reasonably big plate for stability but it isnt a specialist lf tripod. Its a Velbon Ultra Rexi L with s Velbon PH 250 head and has been perfectly ok so far.
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I do have an old pan and tilt head somewhere, but it doesn't have a QR plate on it. I never liked using it as I couldn't remember what all the controls did! But then, I used it so rarely perhaps it was easy to forget (plus I'm getting old, forgetting things is much easier these days!)
 
The Manfrotto 410 is the one I've got, if you want to borrow it to try it out you're more than welcome @ChrisR.
 
RaglanSurf said:
The Manfrotto 410 is the one I've got, if you want to borrow it to try it out you're more than welcome @ChrisR.
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Perhaps at the next meet? Looks like a special plate rather than Arca Swiss or RC2... or am I wrong? (There's one on fleabay for £110 used once...)

EDIT Gosh: weight 1.2 kg, rated only 5 kg according to Manfrotto!
 
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steveo_mcg said:
I don't know if it's gp3 or not tbh. Must be really. I liked gp3 it's decent for the price, I've ordered a box of the 54 so I'll report back once it arrives, probably Easter...
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Box arrived already, I'll try and shoot a couple of frames this week and report back.
 
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