missing plane

MartynK said:
An aircraft, with a crew and a large number of passengers, yes. Lots of speculation, conjecture and 'what if' scenarios, which is to be expected. I suspect that various governments and their intelligence agencies do know more about it than they're revealing, but there's nothing surprising about that.
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No doubt about that. There will be a reluctance among some to reveal anything that gives a hint about their surveillance capabilities.
 
arclight said:
No doubt about that. There will be a reluctance among some to reveal anything that gives a hint about their surveillance capabilities.
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...and a reluctance amongst others to admit their lack of it. Absolutely no doubt there is still plenty of information that has not been made public.
 
arclight said:
No doubt about that. There will be a reluctance among some to reveal anything that gives a hint about their surveillance capabilities.
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Theres also the issue that in the remote likeliihood scenario of it being on the ground somewhere , certain countries might be planning an operation to go get it, and they wouldn't want to alert whoever has it to their intentions - that said my opinion is that that is wishful thinking, imo its on the sea bed somewhere
 
big soft moose said:
I heard one of the relatives on the radio going on about how he knows his brother is alive and he's probably building shelters on a desert island or making rafts out of wreckage or some such...now I know its harsh , but that kind of delusion isn't healthy - if it crashed, everyone is dead, if it was taken chances are everyone is dead. Seeing survivors turn up from this will be a miracle up their with loaves and fishes
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Might be their way of coping with the situation. Most humans need hope. It's what has driven us to explore rather than sitting in Africa. If it were me, I'd want confirmation, even if I knew in my heart that my family member/friend was probably dead.
 
omens said:
Might be their way of coping with the situation. Most humans need hope. It's what has driven us to explore rather than sitting in Africa. If it were me, I'd want confirmation, even if I knew in my heart that my family member/friend was probably dead.
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True , but in my experience its a good way to drive yourself nuts - while i've never been in the exact situation, when i was 18 my first serious girlfreind was killed in a bomb blast - she was so close to the seat of the explosion that they never found an identifiable body , and they put a coffin full of bricks in the ground. For years i clung to the hope of 'may be she's not dead' - while all the time the rational part of me knew that that was b*****ks. - that didnt do me any good at all , and led to a range of psycological things like seeing her face in crowds, thinking i'd heard her voice and so forth , it also led to my romantic life being on hold for years, because i couldn't allow myself to be 'unfaithful'

Eventually (after 10+ years and some indepth counselling) I was able to come to closure , and accept the facts of what happened and that she was gone and move on with my life (hence also why i am able to talk about it calmly now).

If I had to give advice to the bereaved of this flight, mine would be don't do that to yourself, human beings might need hope, if hope exists, but a delusion of false hope is worse than none at all.
 
big soft moose said:
Theres also the issue that in the remote likeliihood scenario of it being on the ground somewhere , certain countries might be planning an operation to go get it, and they wouldn't want to alert whoever has it to their intentions - that said my opinion is that that is wishful thinking, imo its on the sea bed somewhere
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China is searching parts of it's land. If they are doing that they cannot have 100% faith in their own radar to detect intrusions.

The search at sea has been narrowed "down" to an area about the size of Australia.(n) Needle and haystack come to mind.
 
arclight said:
China is searching parts of it's land. If they are doing that they cannot have 100% faith in their own radar to detect intrusions.
.
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Or they know its not there but don't want to admit their radar capability

although that said search radar units are expensive , so countries with a lot of sparsely populated and economically unimportant space tend not to put them there - I'd expect China's to be depoyed in an arc to defend their economic, political and military centre of gravity on the likely axis of threat - i.e towards the russian border, and towards taiwan (not that the latter is a genuine threat , but there is a paranoia about the 'nationalist' threat)

As there is 9 tenths of bugger all down where this flight might have come in, and theres no credible threat down there (China probably doesnt expect to be attacked by malaysia, indonesia and so forth ) they probably don't have much in the way of air defence radar in that sector
 
fracster said:
I think Scrivens was on it, he bored everybody to death and finally found something he wasn`t an expert in, flying an airliner.
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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:Coffee to keyboard interface.
You owe me a new one.
 
Don't be silly Ade - if he'd been on board he would have been in the toilet ;)
 
Thank you and good night...........;)
 
arclight said:
No doubt about that. There will be a reluctance among some to reveal anything that gives a hint about their surveillance capabilities.
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Yv said:
...and a reluctance amongst others to admit their lack of it. Absolutely no doubt there is still plenty of information that has not been made public.
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(y)

Add to that rampant internet speculation, a government inexperienced with the whole media circus and a lot of what we're getting having been translated at least once (if not translated and re-translated again) before finally appearing in English.

It's no wonder that rumours are suddenly becoming fact and nobody has a clue what's actually going on.
 
big soft moose said:
True , but in my experience its a good way to drive yourself nuts - while i've never been in the exact situation, when i was 18 my first serious girlfreind was killed in a bomb blast - she was so close to the seat of the explosion that they never found an identifiable body
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So sorry to hear what happened. Different people I guess will react in different ways but I think the moment they find the plane in whatever state may be what people need as closure and enable them to move on.
 
SarahLee said:
It's no wonder that rumours are suddenly becoming fact and nobody has a clue what's actually going on.
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not to mention irresponsible journalism letting the desire to sell papers outweigh the responsibility to report the news - the other day the mirror had " Missing Plane WAS hijacked" and the express had " Hijackers steered plane towards tropical island" as front page headlines - I don't know the detail of the stories as I didn't read them , I just saw them on the rack as I paid for fuel at Tescos, but seriously are they privy to sources that the rest of the world don't have ? or are they simply full of crap ?
 
Unfortunately, the prime purpose of newspapers is to sell newspapers.

I'm always surprised when people don't seem to understand that.

Not saying you don't BTW.
 
oh yeah I agree - but when they make up total fiction and report it as news , they have ceased to be 'newspapers' - I mean I know the sport used to do that regularly ( MI6 steal iceberg was probably my favourite) but they knew that everyone knew it was b*****ks and it was like a self parody
 
:)

I loved the Sport in it's early years.

My favourite was the headline, "I married a cabbage," followed a few weeks later by, "greenfly ate my wife."

But - The Mail, for example, know exactly what they're doing and I would bet it's articles are peppered with words and phrases such as, "alleged," "according to," "sources suggest," etc.
 
Many people getting excited by this particular area on the satellite imaging data from Tomnod.

Link to the direct satellite imaging for this grid here http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/654342

article-2583807-1C655E2800000578-43_634x399.jpg


and

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http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/654342

Although it appears this is a genuine aeroplane in the jungle as I think the feed is verified, realistically it's not going to be a crashed flight MH370 is it? No surrounding tree damage? It looks too intact? Not that I know much about this kind of thing.
 
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that'll be a jet that just happened to be flying over when the shot was taken - assuming its not a photoshop of course

If a jet really crashed into the jungle , you'd be looking at a swathe of trees knocked over, fire , and at the very least the wings ripped off
 
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Looks more like a plane flying below the satellite image to me as it looks like it's above the trees, the scale looks off and the surroundings look a bit too pristine.

Edit, beaten by BSM
 
ACW said:
Many people getting excited by this particular area on the satellite imaging data from Tomnod.

Link to the direct satellite imaging for this grid here http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/654342

article-2583807-1C655E2800000578-43_634x399.jpg


and

article-2583807-1C655E2D00000578-616_634x402.jpg


http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/654342

Although it appears this is a genuine aeroplane in the jungle as I think the feed is verified, realistically it's not going to be a crashed flight MH370 is it? No surrounding tree damage? It looks too intact? Not that I know much about this kind of thing. Possible just a
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That is a pretty disgusting link IMO, because it is like many of the false media stories.
What must the relatives of the people on the plane think if they come across a story like this?
If a Harrier tried to land in a location like that it would crash. If an airliner as large as a 777 tried to land, then it would be represented by a large swathe of forest destroyed with debris scattered all around.
ther would be NO recognisable shape of an aircraft to be seen.
 
big soft moose said:
that'll be a jet that just happened to be flying over when the shot was taken - assuming its not a photoshop of course

If a jet really crashed into the jungle , you'd be looking at a swathe of trees knocked over, fire , and at the very least the wings ripped off
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Not photoshopped, click on the link and see the raw daya. I agree it's not a crashed plane, if it is on the ground it looks placed rather than impacting at xxxmph, merely mentioning this is currently causing a great deal of speculation on the interweb. I think where people are spending so long trawling through the miles and miles of empty ocean and jungle on the Tomnod satellite data, everyone's jumping the gun at the first glimpse of something plane shaped!
 
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andy700 said:
That is a pretty disgusting link IMO, because it is like many of the false media stories.
What must the relatives of the people on the plane think if they come across a story like this?
If a Harrier tried to land in a location like that it would crash. If an airliner as large as a 777 tried to land, then it would be represented by a large swathe of forest destroyed with debris scattered all around.
ther would be NO recognisable shape of an aircraft to be seen.
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The link isn't to a news story and I disagree with your opinion that the link is 'disgusting'. It's to a crowd sourcing site that allows the public to search the area looking for debris or anything else that could be useful. It's a good idea in principle, but as I've already stated, it can and will lead to a certain amount of false leads. Is it not worth it in the end if some form of genuine clue does come out of using such a technique?

This thread is to discuss news etc surrounding the flight, this is to do with said flight.
 
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Crowd sourcing something like that is daft though - it just going to give rise to lots of false sightings like that one , you needed trained photo interpreters not a bunch of hopeful halfwits (as Heinlein said "if you were building an electric motor would you add a bath tub to it just because one was available ? would a pile of rocks help ? or a bunch of flowers ? or would you just add those elements that were actually needed ")

To be fair to andy I think he meant that the link was disgusting - the raising of hopes over something that is self evidently false to anyone with a modicum of intelligence - not your posting of it
 
Looks upside down (or shot from underneath) from the angle of the tail ?
 
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big soft moose said:
Crowd sourcing something like that is daft though - it just going to give rise to lots of false sightings like that one
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Interesting concept (in my opinion) nonetheless.

While perhaps the majority of people using the site will lack the modicum of intelligence you describe, I like to think there will be a number of aviation enthusiasts / retired experts / other knowledgeable people trawling through it with a conservative and sensible approach. Personally, I would not be of any use with a tool like this. While an undeniably tragic loss, it is an extremely interesting scenario.

In terms of the hope it may give; I think that hope is already existent, and would be regardless of sites like the one mentioned above. As a level-headed individual who is not directly affected by the loss of friends / family in the flight, yes it is most likely the plane and it's occupants are no longer with us.

However, if I was a family member or friend of the concerned, I'd understandably be harbouring hopes (notwithstanding speculative news stories) until I heard conclusive evidence stating the contrary. I think grief and logical rationale do not always mix, as humans it is natural to hope for the best in times of crisis.
 
ACW said:
, I like to think there will be a number of aviation enthusiasts / retired experts / other knowledgeable people trawling through it with a conservative and sensible approach. .
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this is true , but the problem is that with so many people trawling through it and reporting all manner of crap , the sensible ones are going to be lost in the shuffle, and sorting the wheat from the b*****ks Is going to be a larger job for the experts than jut analysing the pictures themselves (especially as a lot of satellite analysis is done by computer these days)

Crowd sourcing something like this is basically a stunt to make various busy bodies feel valued and keep them out of the professionals hair - the chances of it actually turning up something useful and that getting reported and acted on are practically nil
 
big soft moose said:
this is true , but the problem is that with so many people trawling through it and reporting all manner of crap , the sensible ones are going to be lost in the shuffle, and sorting the wheat from the lovespuds Is going to be a larger job for the experts than jut analysing the pictures themselves (especially as a lot of satellite analysis is done by computer these days)

Crowd sourcing something like this is basically a stunt to make various busy bodies feel valued and keep them out of the professionals hair - the chances of it actually turning up something useful and that getting reported and acted on are practically nil
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But you could argue that the other way - if it is keeping people out of the officials hair [I dont believe it has that effect btw, the busy bodies are unlikely to be able to get close to those professionals to be in their hair in the first place] and it has the effect of making a lot of people across the world who feel otherwise helpless to help a chance to feel like they are doing something, then is it really that bad? An image such as the one above can be quickly and easily dismissed as exactly what it is, a normal aircraft just passing through the bit of the airspace above the ground the satellite was photographing at the time - in fact my only amazement about the Tomnod thing is that more non-mysterious aircraft haven't been spotted, or at least, 'sung and danced' about - to prevent any raised hopes amongst relatives/friends of the missing passengers. Also, I am pretty sure professionals in various bits of the world are also analysing those same pictures and more as they come in from the satellite feeds as well as all the other search methods being employed.
 
I hope no-one is wasting their time with G.E. it is years out of date,the maximum zoom is even older in some places.
I can sympathise with Friends/Relatives frustration,it must be sheer hell for them.

eddie
 
labradoodler said:
I hope no-one is wasting their time with G.E. it is years out of date,the maximum zoom is even older in some places.
I can sympathise with Friends/Relatives frustration,it must be sheer hell for them.

eddie
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I'm sure some probably have been :eek:
 
Yv said:
making a lot of people across the world who feel otherwise helpless to help a chance to feel like they are doing something, then is it really that bad? .
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its bad because its basically a lie - that kind of thing is fine when you give a child the job of 'counting the worms' on the allotment so that they stay out of your way while you are digging but feel like they 'helped daddy' , but with adults it shouldn't really be necessary, people could just get a grip.

If you take a TP parallel - you guys generally welcome RTMs in small numbers because they highlight things that you might otherwise have missed - but imagine if every one of the 40k users decided to RTM every thread they thought was a bit funny, RTMs would rapidly become totally useless and a drain on your time, because the useful alerts would be buried under a mound of crap.

same thing in my job, we generally welcome emails from the public highlighting issues , but after the storms I had so many emails in the generic email address inbox saying 'there's a tree down here there and everywhere' ,not to mention all the ones concerned about trees that were wobbling a bit that going through them all rapidly became a bigger job than just going out and looking ourselves

I can see the idea of crowd sourcing - that many hand make light work - but that only works if those many hands don't all generate pointless email because they want to feel helpful.
 
Except where is it - surely if that was the explanation they'd have found it by now, if it had carried on burning until the fire destroyed the control surfaces then crashed there would be ample debris on the surface and they'd have found it in pretty short order,

also if the pilot still had command authority to turn for the nearsest safe airstrip, it is somewhat unlikely that the fire would have been so advanced as to take out all the radio communications - and surely he'd have made a distress call at that point, if only to alert the airstrip that he was coming in with no landing gear and an uncontrolled fire on board.

If he could turn left then there can't have been incapacitating smoke at that point , and it is unlikely in ther extreme that a fire from the landing gear could become an electrical fire in the time it would take to make a distres call.

its a nice theory - but it predicates from the assumption that there was a fire on board, and theres no definitive evidence that there was
 
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big soft moose said:
it is unlikely in ther extreme that a fire from the landing gear could become an electrical fire in the time it would take to make a distres call.

its a nice theory - but it predicates from the assumption that there was a fire on board, and theres no definitive evidence that there was
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Read your Sherlock Holmes ;) The likely stuff isn't working. Most of the other theories are impossible. An unlikely one might cover it.

As for where it is.....I believe the suggestion is that they are looking in the wrong place. Or rather looking in too big a place to search effectively.
 
All we know for sure is that it climbed to an extreme altitude and somehow the crew did not or could not send out any kind of Mayday.
Even the change in course seems a bit uncertain.
 
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