Nikon D800......

[bigrob]

Amazon in the US are saying 20th March i.e. earlier than they originaly said.

See here http://nikonrumors.com/2012/02/16/amazon-changes-the-nikon-d800-shipment-estimation-to-as-early-as-march-20th-2012.aspx/

 

[Digifrog]

If anyone can confirm whether or not the D800 supports the ML-L3 IR remote please let me know.

Ta.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

If anyone can confirm whether or not the D800 supports the ML-L3 IR remote please let me know.

Ta.

No, none of the "pro" bodies do....

 

[stormcrow]

I'm thinking about buying a Nikon D700. However, there are numerous rumors about the Nikon D800 coming out soon.

I think you will find that the rumours are true

 

[Digifrog]

No, none of the "pro" bodies do....

:thumbsdown:

So I guess the alternatives are the MC-36 (£130) or ML-3 (£200) ?

Is Hahnel good? I would assume not all 3rd party RC's are reliable/good quality?

For me the ML-L3 is perfect. I'm currently losing one a year and they're only £16 - pfff!

 

[Nawty]

A remote control is a pretty trivial thing to worry about when you're busting over £2k on a camera...

 

[Digifrog]

A remote control is a pretty trivial thing to worry about when you're busting over £2k on a camera...

Not at all. It's still a big chunk out of the budget. Plus it's somewhat a bit of a neccesity.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

:thumbsdown:

So I guess the alternatives are the MC-36 (£130) or ML-3 (£200) ?

Is Hahnel good? I would assume not all 3rd party RC's are reliable/good quality?

For me the ML-L3 is perfect. I'm currently losing one a year and they're only £16 - pfff!

There are plenty of third party remotes available on Ebay. Personally I wouldn't even pay £16 for an ML-L3 anyway, you can buy copies for a couple of quid that are every bit as good....

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Not at all. It's still a big chunk out of the budget. Plus it's somewhat a bit of a neccesity.

Tbh, if £16 is "big chunk out of the budget" then, with the best will in the world, a £2400 camera body probably isn't for you....

 

[Joe T]

Tbh, if £16 is "big chunk out of the budget" then, with the best will in the world, a £2400 camera body probably isn't for you....

I think he was referring to the £130/£200 ones!

 

[redhed17]

I think you will find that the rumours are true

Excellent.

You can get wired remote's on Ebay for less than £5, and wireless (radio) ones for less than £20. Much better than Infra Red remote's imho.

 

[Digifrog]

I think he was referring to the £130/£200 ones!

Indeed I was, durrr!

More to the point, the cost of having to replace one if I shoud lose it (which would be entirely normal for me )

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Indeed I was, durrr!

More to the point, the cost of having to replace one if I shoud lose it (which would be entirely normal for me )

The answer is simple then - either buy the cheaper copies, or take more care of your gear

 

[Digifrog]

The answer is simple then - either buy the cheaper copies, or take more care of your gear

Yeah. Thanks for that. Back on track...

Are the 3rd party versions any good?

In fact, forget I asked.. :bonk:

 

[Ozei]

What about a Phottix instead?

 

[strax]

Nikon USA have released a technical document for the D800 and D800E here

What struck me about this document was the stressing of basically using a 'sturdy' tripod whenever possible and also it mentions diffraction setting in at f11 too.

 

[gramps]

Interesting document, looks an interesting and maybe troublesome learning curve.

 

[commjo]

Nikon USA have released a technical document for the D800 and D800E here

What struck me about this document was the stressing of basically using a 'sturdy' tripod whenever possible and also it mentions diffraction setting in at f11 too.

So if I want to open up past f/8, I'll need to learn how to focus stack.

 

[Ozei]

.... and also it mentions diffraction setting in at f11 too.

More on that here (point 6) - http://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk/newsitem.php?id=331&pg=1&mem=&arc=0.

 

[desantnik]

Interesting document, looks an interesting and maybe troublesome learning curve.

Its certainly an interesting document.

Whilst I applaud Nikon for publishing such a thing and also with coming clean about what moire is for the D800E, I also would be rather concerned with quite how bad things would have to be before they actually confessed like this.

Using a tripod, using liveview, using only top notch glass (if we had a pointless L, this would be the list)...

Seems you basically have to have a lot of following wind to pull this off (providing it doesn't wobble your tripod lol), which for once is actually pretty similar to the postings we've had about this pushing the envelope to the bleeding edge...

 

[Nawty]

To answer my own question, the sample images on Nikon's site are 36mb jpgs!

As a further point/question, Lightroom 4 has a Moire removal tool, does this give everyone the go-ahead get the D800e with no fear?

 

[Digifrog]

More on that here (point 6) - http://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk/newsitem.php?id=331&pg=1&mem=&arc=0.

I like the last paragraph here.

"Paradoxically, in certain circumstances, very mild diffraction can be a benefit, as it may reduce the incidence of moiré patterns, because the image at the sensor is softened slightly as a result of the divergence of the light rays as they pass through a small aperture opening, so diffraction can be friend and foe!"

So buy the D800E (with its higher perceived res), deliberately incur some diffraction by shooting at f/13/14 (if needed) will eliminate any potential moire and give greater Dof. Cutting corners? I get a funny feeling it isn't that much of a no brainer, or is it?

 

[vizzair]

More on that here (point 6) - http://www.graysofwestminster.co.uk/newsitem.php?id=331&pg=1&mem=&arc=0.

In the link (point 6) it mentions the pixel pitch of 4.9 microns, if you look at the spec of the D7000, although it has a 16MP sensor, because of the crop, the pixel pitch is the same as the D800, if not smaller, so why are people not bothered about the D7000's limitations, and going on about having to use tripods etc... in the same way.

 

[Ozei]

....Using a tripod, using liveview, using only top notch glass .....

Interesting to note the 'recommended' lens list on page 16 - especially the f/1.4G primes. The 24, 35 and 85mm are all included but the 50mm f/1.4G isn't.

 

[desantnik]

In the link (point 6) it mentions the pixel pitch of 4.9 microns, if you look at the spec of the D7000, although it has a 16MP sensor, because of the crop, the pixel pitch is the same as the D800, if not smaller, so why are people not bothered about the D7000's limitations, and going on about having to use tripods etc... in the same way.

I'd say you had a point except that Nikon *themselves* are saying this, not random speculators... so that has to mean that the concerns are real.

 

[HoppyUK]

I'd say you had a point except that Nikon *themselves* are saying this, not random speculators... so that has to mean that the concerns are real.

I would say that to some degreee Nikon is preparing D800 owners for some 'disappointment' when the pixel worshipers look at their images and wonder where all the extra sharpness is.

If you know how to play the game, the benefits will be there, but not easy to see. Sorry if I'm getting boring on this, but perceived sharpness has more to do with lens contrast than sensor resolution, which is why medium format DSLRs with similar pixel counts will beat the D800 on sharpness, in just the same way that full frame beats APS-C format cameras with the same pixel numbers. It's the lens having to deliver less resolution, and therefore at a higher contrast level, that makes the images snap.

Some shrewd posters have been making the point about how difficult it will be to extract full performance from the D800 since this thread began. For example

...To see the benefits of 36mp, you're going to need a very sharp lens indeed, use an f/number below f/8 to avoid diffraction limits, shoot at a totally shake-free shutter speed that will be somewhere north of the old focal length/shutter speed rule, and make huge prints to examine very closely.

 

[fracster]

I`m really unsure who Nikon have marketed this at?

With grips, D300 crop body 8fps, D700 FX 8pps. So that ,I assume, negates wildlife and sports photographers?

So, who will buy this?

 

[redddraggon]

So, who will buy this?

Landscape, Studio, Portraiture, Product Photography?

Possibly a viable alternative to medium format.

 

[fracster]

Landscape, Studio, Portraiture, Product Photography?

Possibly a viable alternative to medium format.

Maybe Jim, but is studio and port stuff not covered by the 3x? Also, what makes this so much better than the D700, other than video,more pixels (debatable on the need) and a lot of brass?

 

[flossie]

I`m really unsure who Nikon have marketed this at?

With grips, D300 crop body 8fps, D700 FX 8pps. So that ,I assume, negates wildlife and sports photographers?

So, who will buy this?

Its quite clearly aimed at the Canon 5D-II, i.e. Prosumer photographers and Video DSLR (don't underestimate this market!). This is a very fickle market and prone to spending lots of money on kit they don't know how to use just because the specs sound cool - and they will be all over the D800 like a rash if the 5DIII doesn't counter-attack hard.

People who want to shoot sport and wildlife are going to be encouraged towards the D4. After all, Nikon already tell them they have to buy a £6-8k lens for that, so why not a £4k body too... and if you can afford that kind of gear, you can afford a £2.5k second body for your landscapes...


I pretty much had this conversation with Nikon UK at BVE - "my D700 allows me to shoot everything, but with the D4 and D800 you've split what I can do between both of them" "yes...you seem to fall in the middle...you could buy both...or maybe a used D3S..."

 

[fracster]

Ah......a used D3s, hits the nail firmly on the head for a lot of people.........

 

[Ozei]

... I get a funny feeling it isn't that much of a no brainer, or is it?

Not quite sure what your question is here - whether to buy the E or the non-E? Or whether to buy an 800 at all?

 

[Digifrog]

Ah see, you've not quoted the whole sentence.

"So buy the D800E (with its higher perceived res), deliberately incur some diffraction by shooting at f/13/14 (if needed) will eliminate any potential moire and give greater Dof."

As in, buy the D800 & stay under f/9 to stop diffraction creeping in or buy the D800E (mildly sharper due to modified OLPF) and shoot at f/11 for greater DoF and if any slight diffraction does creep in it will hold back moire. Forgive me, it was kinda rhetorical really, I was thinking aloud due to some headspin on the whole D800 thing . We'll see when peoples start shooting with the darned thing.

 

[tiler65]

Maybe Jim, but is studio and port stuff not covered by the 3x? Also, what makes this so much better than the D700, other than video,more pixels (debatable on the need) and a lot of brass?

Also it is half the price of a D3x and plenty of wedding shooters are buying it for their posed shots and it looks like a great studio camera too.

 

[commjo]

Also it is half the price of a D3x and plenty of wedding shooters are buying it for their posed shots and it looks like a great studio camera too.

A D3s with a D800 seems like a very decent combination for event/wedding photographers.

 

[desantnik]

I would say that to some degreee Nikon is preparing D800 owners for some 'disappointment' when the pixel worshipers look at their images and wonder where all the extra sharpness is.

Some shrewd posters have been making the point about how difficult it will be to extract full performance from the D800 since this thread began. For example

Indeed, there has been some good analysis here from TP'ers and it does appear to be bearing out.

My mate Thom though has a different perspective, have a look at his opinions in his article on 17th Feb "Nikon Shakes Up D800 Worshipers" and then also on 15th Feb "D3, D3s, D3x, D4, D700, D800, D800E, or Wait?
"

http://bythom.com/

I'm not sure I agree with him actually. In a recent exchange with him he has no concept of how aperture and shutter speed can together be important - in long lens shooting of sports... which despite me having a large respect for the guy, did knock him down a bit in my eyes ;-)

I`m really unsure who Nikon have marketed this at?

With grips, D300 crop body 8fps, D700 FX 8pps. So that ,I assume, negates wildlife and sports photographers?

So, who will buy this?

Landscape, Possibly a viable alternative to medium format.

Landscape? Really? A friend of mine for a long time bemoaned his D700 for creating difficult DOF problems with landscape shots. Surely this has just made that more so?

Or has it? Thats not a rhetorical question from me... I'd be interested in hearing it discussed...

 

[redddraggon]

Landscape? Really? A friend of mine for a long time bemoaned his D700 for creating difficult DOF problems with landscape shots. Surely this has just made that more so?

Well with the 14-24, which should be a good enough lens, at 14mm the hyperfocal distance at F/11 is 1.9ft, and at f/8 is 2.4ft, f/5.6 is 3.8ft. So depending on close you need to be to your subject you can get an acceptable DOF while still at an aperture that will provide minimal diffraction effects.

Obviously the longer the focal length the more problems you are going to have with getting a big DOF. There's always the PC-E 24mm, but I've never used one so I don't know how well that would work.

 

[Digifrog]

The more and more I look at this thread the more I'm possibly swayed to the 5DX. All this is theoretical no, until users images & proper analysis steps up.

 

[redhed17]

The more and more I look at this thread the more I'm possibly swayed to the 5DX.

What's a 5DX? :shrug:

All this is theoretical no, until users images & proper analysis steps up.

T'is the Internet, every subject will be thrashed over until there are facts and evidence of something. And then there is more talk as some dispute the facts and evidence.

There are certainly weird noises coming from Nikon about the image quality of this camera, maybe they are managing expectation, maybe they've reached the limits in some areas of the DSLR design.

It will be very interesting to see the reviews when they start to appear.

 

[Digifrog]

What's a 5DX? :shrug:



T'is the Internet, every subject will be thrashed over until there are facts and evidence of something. And then there is more talk as some dispute the facts and evidence.

There are certainly weird noises coming from Nikon about the image quality of this camera, maybe they are managing expectation, maybe they've reached the limits in some areas of the DSLR design.

It will be very interesting to see the reviews when they start to appear.

Aye, my saving grace is that I always use a tripod - always! The most important thing to me is DoF, from the rock that's 2 feet away right to the back, so f/9 means some adapting on my part if I were to bite the bullet and opt for the D800.

It's now a waiting game for sure.