Romanian fruit pickers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here are a couple of interesting facts....Sources are ONS and DWP, but as this page brought several reports neatly together it saves linked to various labour force surveys and the likes...For those technically inclined you could always fill your boots on data.gov.uk as well :)

https://fullfact.org/articles/immigration_bill_migrants_benefits-29233

Alternatively feel free to carry on with emotive pub style rhetoric...
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Small steps, small steps. Don't you agree having a goal is a noble thing? And if you have an objective, then at some point you have to take steps. Being insular and xenophobic is not the solution to anything.
Click to expand...

Not wanting to be part of Europe isn't xenophobic. Fiscally, politically we are different. Having pride in your national indentiry doesn't make you intolerant of other people from other countries never mind wanting to go to war with them.

However I do see us for good and bad reasons simply being politically and fiscally incompatible with other European countries and what's right for them isn't right for us. The French for instance seem to have a very high rate of personal taxation, it's just not something that suits Britain.

Britain is Britain, France is France etc and I think personally free trade between certain countries is excellent but I don't think they should be unified other than by a trade agreement.

The direction of the EU worries a lot of Britons hence the UKIP movement. I dislike racism but racism is not wanting what's right for your fellow countrymen
 
Last edited:
Raptor Mike said:
And that's polite?? As for grammar etc give me a brake, I'm on a tablet and its late.
I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about grammar at all. Heck I'm the last person to point that finger, and spelling....Nothing to do with either...

Raptor Mike said:
I didn't want to bring it up but I'm dyslexic. I'm doing my best.
Click to expand...

So is my daughter, and was Albert Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, etc and even Hans Christian Andersen. You won't do bad when you see it as a gift, happy to chat about that if you want....In this context however I think it is an irrelevant excuse as it was an expression of your belief. Fair enough we all have them and we may not agree with each others points. I'm just not buying it at all that dyslexia has anything to do with your stance on this subject.
 
dejongj said:
I wasn't talking about grammar at all. Heck I'm the last person to point that finger, and spelling....Nothing to do with either...



So is my daughter, and was Albert Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, etc and even Hans Christian Andersen. You won't do bad when you see it as a gift, happy to chat about that if you want....In this context however I think it is an irrelevant excuse as it was an expression of your belief. Fair enough we all have them and we may not agree with each others points. I'm just not buying it at all that dyslexia has anything to do with your stance on this subject.
Click to expand...
N definatly not, it has nothing to do with it but if you read a few posts back my spelling, grammar and politeness (which is why I quoted your post) was bought up by daugirdas. I did try not to get into it. Post #233 was aimed at him .Sorry,I shouldn't have dragged you into it. And thanks loads for the offer (y)
 
  • Like
Reactions: ST4
This thread is going round and round in circles, of which I am guilty too. We all have our views to which we are entitled but this thread seems to be going/gone further than just a debate. So I will politely bow out, and no that's not me backing down ;)
 
Can't help noticing a nice little bit of right wing hypocrisy in this thread. Certain people despise the British poor and unemployed. Call them for everything and think they should fend for themselves. However, they despise the hard working immigrant just as much. Doesn't really compute.
 
norters said:
Can't help noticing a nice little bit of right wing hypocrisy in this thread. Certain people despise the British poor and unemployed. Call them for everything and think they should fend for themselves. However, they despise the hard working immigrant just as much. Doesn't really compute.
Click to expand...

ah but you see its the imigrants fault that the british scum are lazy and workshy , if they hadnt come over here and taken all the jobs the lazy scumsuckers would have something to get out of bed for ... its all the fault of the romanians (and nothing at all to do with maggie thatcher trashing the british heavy industry).

Assuming the thread doesnt get locked in time it'll move on to the world government conspiracy, the right to bear arms, and the jewish menace ;)
 
Last edited:
ST4 said:
There might not be enough jobs for everyone in Britain, there might be, but unless every person who can work is working in Britain from Britain, then I have to ask the countries need for foreign workers?
Click to expand...

neil_g said:
do you have any stats for the amount of UK citizens vs immigrants applying for work?
Click to expand...

neil_g said:
?
Click to expand...

neil_g said:
still waiting on those stats by the way.
Click to expand...

neil_g said:
Those aren't the numbers I asked for.
Click to expand...

Good job I wasn't holding my breath.
 
new2me said:
"A poor tradesman always blames his tools" can also relate to his education.
Click to expand...

Disagree with that, I did an MBA complete waste of time. Learning photography in a technical college stood me in better stead in life. Known plenty of graduates and academics who can quote facts and figures until the cows come home but have absolutely no common sense or personality.
 
I guess I'm still on your ignore list :kiss: I provided those stats and the party disbanded (y)
 
neil_g said:
Good job I wasn't holding my breath.
Click to expand...

as st can't be arsed , i had a quick look and found this
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi.../immigration-statistics-january-to-march-2014

apparently there were 156 thousand work visas issued last year (not including eu workers who of course don't need a visa, which is a drop in the ocean against 2.2 million unemployed in britain
802,000 workers here from the A8 nations : (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Slovenia) (figure from wiki) with another 144,000 from bulgaria and romania

plus there are another 801,000 workers here from western europe , predominantly france, germany and spain - however these can be discounted in terms of the 'employment issue' as they are mostly in skilled white collar positions not suitable for most of the indigenous unemployed. Plus many are working for european companies with offices in the uk - if we expelled the workers the jobs woud therefore also disapear

There are currently 2.2 million unemployed British people , so on a very crude basis you could argue that expelling all the imigrants including those from A2 and A8 EU nations would bring british unemployment down to about 1 million.

You could argue this , and many will , but essentially its demostrably over simplified b****x

While the number of foreign-born citizens working here has risen 178,000 in the past year, the number of UK citizens in employment is up 563,000.
Click to expand...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27410522

nuff said
 
Blank_Canvas said:
Disagree with that, I did an MBA complete waste of time. Learning photography in a technical college stood me in better stead in life. Known plenty of graduates and academics who can quote facts and figures until the cows come home but have absolutely no common sense or personality.
Click to expand...
I know plenty of good tradesmen with no common sense or personality ;)
 
big soft moose said:
There are currently 2.2 million unemployed British people , so on a very crude basis you could argue that expelling all the imigrants including those from A2 and A8 EU nations would bring british unemployment down to about 1 million.
Click to expand...

But what would unemployment rise to if you brought back everyone currently working abroad?

We can't complain about the number of people who move here to work whilst accepting people moving to other countries to work We have to look at the net result of both and I suspect it's not very high.

Blank_Canvas said:
I did an MBA complete waste of time.
Click to expand...

A comment I read on another (American) forum: "Many a good business has been run into the ground by an MBA with a spreadsheet".


Steve.
 
Last edited:
I guess the argument is more about the fact that some immigrant workers drive down wages/conditions whereas I doubt Brits abroad drive wages down?
 
cambsno said:
I guess the argument is more about the fact that some immigrant workers drive down wages/conditions whereas I doubt Brits abroad drive wages down?
Click to expand...
It is simple market forces though isn't it? So there is competition in the labour market, thus wages get readjusted. Perfectly normal I would say. Best to adjust and do something else or be better!
 
Steve Smith said:
But what would unemployment rise to if you brought back everyone currently working abroad?

We can't complain about the number of people who move here to work whilst accepting people moving to other countries to work We have to look at the net result of both and I suspect it's not very high.



A comment I read on another (American) forum: "Many a good business has been run into the ground by an MBA with a spreadsheet".


Steve.
Click to expand...

Barroso clearly said this morning that those 2.2 million are going back should Cameron / UKIP follow through their threats. And that is only right IMHO. In the other news it looks like Farrage has received a very nice slap on his face in the EP :p
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...group-collapses-after-mep-leaves-9799051.html Serves him right for messing with the institution he hates from within.
 
cambsno said:
I guess the argument is more about the fact that some immigrant workers drive down wages/conditions whereas I doubt Brits abroad drive wages down?
Click to expand...

Minimum wage is what it is. Minimum holiday / lunch break time is what it is stated by the law. Anything else is illegal and EU clearly and openly backs cracking down on those. However a large number of non-UK nationals are working on [much] higher wage than £7/h. So? And do you suggest all those Brit expats are bankers / scientists / surgeons, and not for example cheap builders in spain, etc?

However if you complain that fellow immigrant workers make the others look bad while checking facebook at work and talking about boozing, then tough luck on that.
 
Steve Smith said:
But what would unemployment rise to if you brought back everyone currently working abroad?

.
Click to expand...

This is true , there are aprox 2 million brits working in europe and 2.5 million working outside europe - so say we take the xenophobic line and expell all foreign nationals working in britain - this frees up at best 1,759,000 jobs

reducing unemployment to 441,000

Then all countries follow suit and expell all their working britons

thus increasing unemployment to 4,941,000 - fantastic - we've made ourselves international pariahs while doubling our unemployment rate , well done PM Farrage* (and that doesnt take into account the job losses caused by the cessation of international trade , or foreign employers , like for example Nissan and Ford pulling out in disgust)

(* actually I doubt even ukip would be so stupid)
 
From an article on The Guardian's website:

The statistics show immigration to the UK of 566,000 in 2011 and emigration of 350,000, meaning that net migration (the difference between immigration and emigration) was 216,000.
Click to expand...

That's not a lot really with a population 0f 60,000,000. It's a 0.36% net rise.


Steve.
 
WHAT A TOTAL LOAD OF b*****ks THIS THREAD IS AND RACIST TO .

immigration into the u.k has taken place since 55 B.C when the romans invaded and stayed for 400 years ,quickly replaced by a influx of saxons from germany ,then vikings from scandinavia ,then normans of viking descent who had interbred with the french .unless you can trace your family tree back to the pre-roman celts your as much a immigrant as the poles and rumanians etc ,i was born here ,my parents were born here but my grandparents were immigrants as were many more ,i can think of quite a few well known people who have the same background ,if by some miracle labour win the next election the prime minister will be a second generation immigrant as well .the only provision i make is the that we should make it a rule that english is the prime language and that if you wish to stay here you should swear allegiance to the crown and abide by the laws of the land .

time to step back take a long hard look in the mirror and say to yourselves where did i really come from.
 
the black fox said:
WHAT A TOTAL LOAD OF b*****ks THIS THREAD IS AND RACIST TO .

immigration into the u.k has taken place since 55 B.C when the romans invaded and stayed for 400 years ,quickly replaced by a influx of saxons from germany ,then vikings from scandinavia ,then normans of viking descent who had interbred with the french .unless you can trace your family tree back to the pre-roman celts your as much a immigrant as the poles and rumanians etc ,i was born here ,my parents were born here but my grandparents were immigrants as were many more ,i can think of quite a few well known people who have the same background ,if by some miracle labour win the next election the prime minister will be a second generation immigrant as well .the only provision i make is the that we should make it a rule that english is the prime language and that if you wish to stay here you should swear allegiance to the crown and abide by the laws of the land .

time to step back take a long hard look in the mirror and say to yourselves where did i really come from.
Click to expand...

and to be honest given that all of humanity moved out of africa in waves anyway , everyone is an imigrant even if you are descended from pre roman celts
 
Why should immigrants swear allegiance to the Crown?
How many British people do so?

I personally have no problem with legitimate immigration. It's the sheer numbers of scrounging no hopers that pee me off.
 
big soft moose said:
or foreign employers , like for example Nissan and Ford pulling out in disgust)
Click to expand...

The list is long. Let me add a few more: Honda, Airbus joint venture, GM (Vauxhall), BMW mini, Shell (they are actually retreating already).... That's quite a few jobs waiting to evaporate.
 
ah but if you take the "born here" model in determining whether you are a migrant, then many of the people with brown skin that the right wing would like to deport are as british as you are, come to that many of the romanian workers will have children born in the uk, and you can hardly deport the parents but not the child
 
Steve Smith said:
Yes. Most of the racist bigots in the country would be quite surprised to learn who their past relatives were!



That bit is implied by the fact that they are laws.


Steve
Click to expand...

In fact, I knew 2 naturalised citizens from African countries (Zimbabwe and Ivory Coast). Somehow once they have the passport they feel like hating everyone from "abroad"
 
ST4 said:
How is the thread racist? Other than the implications that foreign workers are somehow superior to British ones?
Click to expand...

Sometimes that happens to be the case. Does that thought really hurt you so much?
 
daugirdas said:
The list is long. Let me add a few more: Honda, Airbus joint venture, GM (Vauxhall), BMW mini, Shell (they are actually retreating already).... That's quite a few jobs waiting to evaporate.
Click to expand...

indeed and they won't be replaced by british companies working abroad - because there aren't that many that are truly british - a multinational oil company working in the golf isn't going to stop working their because all their british workers are deported... they'll just hire people of differen nationalities.

Course in reality the right wing wouldnt deport Americans, Australians, canadians, Saudi's , japanese etc .... much as they like to deny it it this concern with migrants is just "if they're black send them back" dressed in a pretty frock
 
big soft moose said:
ah but if you take the "born here" model in determining whether you are a migrant, then many of the people with brown skin that the right wing would like to deport are as british as you are, come to that many of the romanian workers will have children born in the uk, and you can hardly deport the parents but not the child
Click to expand...

I feel this can descend too far. There is no way even UKIP can deport anyone with valid passport short of repeating holocaust.
 
ST4 said:
How is the thread racist? Other than the implications that foreign workers are somehow superior to British ones?
Click to expand...

Who made that implication - I seem to recall saying that its some foreign workers being better than some british ones.

If you can't see why wanting to deport other nationalities "cos like they are here taking all the jobs, innit" is racist then there really is no hope
 
daugirdas said:
I feel this can descend too far. There is no way even UKIP can deport anyone with valid passport short of repeating holocaust.
Click to expand...

that is true, but a lot of the stuff steves promoted on this thread (and others) goes far beyond what Ukip would do - i mean can you really see UKIP (or any party dependent on relection) cutting off all benefits in order to "starve the unemployed back to work"

To do that you'd need to be a fascist dictatorship - and in such a system expelling all the brown folk wouldnt be difficult either (swiftly floowed by involuntary euthansaia of the disabled , and the detention of anyone seen as a political or economic undesirable ... you'd have to concentrate such people in camps , so i wonder what we could call such facilities :runaway: )
 
Last edited:
ST4 said:
I'm British and its a slur on my countrymen, it effects me very much.
Click to expand...

I sense hypocrisy - aren't these the same fellow countrymen that you recently described as "scum" ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top