The new Sony A9 - What are your thoughts
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You'll be able to pick up an A9 much cheaper, new or used, once the A10 comes out
I wonder what the A7III is going to be like mmm... will Sony build a A9R and A9S.... exciting times..... will Sony filter down BSI/Stack CMOS sensor technology to their Axxxx range.
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at £2000 id bite, but paying 3/4 grand for a camera that lets face it sony wont provide proper support or firmware updates for, (well not compared to others). its to expensive
edit-- to point out I do think its a hell of a step forward and probably a great camera still.
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Its definitely priced for professional use
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The Fuji GFX is epic, even I thought about it but I can't justify it ... maybe when I have paid my mortgages off in 30 years time lol
Between the decent trade in bonuses, the cash from selling my Pentax gear and the help of the 24 month 0% finance I'd be able to get one easy enough but as you say justifying it (and to the Mrs) might be harder! But that GFX & 32-64 combo is just magic.
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Yeah its a lot of money, you could get a XT-2 and a massive collection of Fujinon lenses...... then pickup the Pro XT body when it comes out.
The output of the XT-2 is magic, love the colours etc
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I don't disagree, hell I could buy a 5div or D810 with a shed of lenses for the cash. I just don't see myself fully committing back to just a Fuji APS-C camera, for most things the outputt is great but for landscape I can't go back to the X-Trans... stick a Bayer sensor in the XT Pro and I'd snap it up..... GFX at least is Bayer and has the cracking film simulations!
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GFX it is sir!
c-ching
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Agree with this, Fuji (and to a lesser extent Panasonic/Olympus) have shown what's possible with all-electronic bodies in terms of updating/bug fixes etc. I love the Alpha/FE ecosystem but I'm strongly against them only fixing/updating minor software things when new bodies come out.
You'd think after seeing Fuji they would realise it's a viable way of gaining market share. Stick minimum shutter speed control in Auto ISO on the a7II via a firmware update and I'd buy it tomorrow. Suck me in and before I know it I'm on the path to an a7RII etc.
woof woof
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It is IMO a bit unrealistic to expect the A9 to be £2k. Would you expect a Canikon with this spec to be £2K? In 5 years maybe this spec will be yours for £2k in an A7IV or V body but an A9 today for £2k? Or are we still just Sony bashing and thinking that an electronics company has no business making a top end camera?
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dont be so defensive, as i said its an amazing camera, i haven't bashed them at all. what i said was if sony want to charge that, then a great camera isn't good enough they need to provide great backup and continue to provide updates. they could learn a lot from fuji business model. i said £2000 was the price i would bite at not what the camera is worth.
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2k for this camera? Lol
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They do make exceedingly good headphones
woof woof
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I'm not being defensive, I just think that if you expect this camera to be £2k before it even hits the shops you've lost the plot.
I suppose not having anything to directly compare the A9 too doesn't help but we do know it's aiming to be a high end performance camera at the higher end of the market and you don't get that for mid FF market prices. Even Canikon charge sort of A9 money for their high performance cameras and if you want to pay £2k you need to look at an A7 series or a mid level Canikon.
I know Fuji get touted for firmware updates but another view is that they release underdeveloped cameras. Should an early life cycle customer have to hope for updates? I don't need an answer, just putting an alternative view
But you're way off on your price expectations.
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woof woof
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Years ago I spent a few months fixing Canon photocopiers... the experience didn't put me off their cameras or affect how much I thought they should cost and it's a constant amazement to me that people seem to think that Sony cameras / lenses are overpriced and should cost about the same as a bargain basement DVD player. An A9 for £90? Sounds about right
Such is life...
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you j
you just haven't read my posts, i haven't said they should cost £2000. so yep i think you are being defensiveI'm not being defensive, I just think that if you expect this camera to be £2k before it even hits the shops you've lost the plot.
I suppose not having anything to directly compare the A9 too doesn't help but we do know it's aiming to be a high end performance camera at the higher end of the market and you don't get that for mid FF market prices. Even Canikon charge sort of A9 money for their high performance cameras and if you want to pay £2k you need to look at an A7 series or a mid level Canikon.
I know Fuji get touted for firmware updates but another view is that they release underdeveloped cameras. Should an early life cycle customer have to hope for updates? I don't need an answer, just putting an alternative view
But you're way off on your price expectations.
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I know Fuji get touted for firmware updates but another view is that they release underdeveloped cameras. Should an early life cycle customer have to hope for updates? I don't need an answer, just putting an alternative view
I feel like throwing one in the ring anyway
The Sony RX1 was wonderfully flawed and was a few firmware tweaks short of being a very good camera, it had a few bugs and quirks that on the face of it looked like easy fixes...never happened. Not exactly a cheap camera either. Very similar to the X-Pro1 in many respects actually, but Fuji squeezed what they could out of that in time and improved it immensely.The a7, a7ii, a7r etc are missing some fairly basic functions that funnily enough appeared in the appreciably more expensive a7RII. Again on the face of it very simple firmware tweaks. As I've said many times, the 1/60 nonsense in Auto ISO with those cameras in Aperture Priority is just silly. Those cameras clearly have room and processing power to spare as they developed apps for them beyond the original functionality.
A quick browse through the X-T1 firmware releases gives a long list of things not found in the early a7 models.
So the oft stated 'Fuji should release complete cameras in the first place' line you've quoted doesn't really wash when they're giving us stuff that Sony will only give you if you upgrade to a £2.5k model.
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I feel like throwing one in the ring anyway
The a7, a7ii, a7r etc are missing some fairly basic functions that funnily enough appeared in the appreciably more expensive a7RII. Again on the face of it very simple firmware tweaks. As I've said many times, the 1/60 nonsense in Auto ISO with those cameras in Aperture Priority is just silly. Those cameras clearly have room and processing power to spare as they developed apps for them beyond the original functionality.
A quick browse through the X-T1 firmware releases gives a long list of things not found in the early a7 models.
So the oft stated 'Fuji should release complete cameras in the first place' line you've quoted doesn't really wash when they're giving us stuff that Sony will only give you if you upgrade to a £2.5k model.
Having owned the A7, A7II and two A7RII's I have to agree, easy firmware additions to make the cameras better would have been great but nothing.
Sony are hell bent on just adding it to the next new body which probably does pee people off sometimes.
Its typically Sony ime. Ive invested in Sony for compacts, apsc through full frame over the years and their fixes are new models not fw. I stopped buying their products at launch after the A7. Ill pick up the A7rii sometime but at a massively reduced cost from launch as i think its a decent bit of kit but wasnt at 3k.
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Below £2k at panamoz right now. Which is back to about where it was when I first bought one about 2 months after it released. I think that's a reasonable and fair price for it.
On the subject of fw updates it's an interesting topic. As an a7ii owner it would be hugely beneficial if some mirror upgrades/updates filtered down in the form fw updates.
That being said, perhaps Fuji are unique in this regard. Look at canon charging for updates on the 5d4 where the camera has to be shipped off to them as well.
At the moment it feels safe to assume if you buy a Fuji camera you can expect free improvements/ updates over the course of a couple of years. And if you buy a song they will listen to the feedback of customers and include it in a new body.
I dont tbh, but its not just Sony that took the P with increases, by now it should be at 1.5k or less. Its laughable, used A7S cost more than i paid new at launch!
Fuji and Olympus are great with FW..... but Fujis also releasing cameras at a silly rate with huge cashback and again big price increases, that makes early adopters upset unless they bought before increases... the FW updates help imo with those issues as you feel in a sense youve been looked after a little if youre willing to hold on to your cam.
The whole higher end camera market is going to crap though. How many of us need this stuff? I used to be in it for all the latest gear as you know.... These days its nice to have new things but tbh im getting on swell with under 1k worth of gear.
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That's the danger of these forums and YouTube. Throwing new gear into our faces and tempting us. When in reality in most circumstances the older gear does exactly what the majority of us need it to do.
Partly why ive not been round. I enjoy the forum very much and have learnt a lot though over the years. Youtube pfft bloggers/vloggers silly hats making money off talking nonsense.
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Clearly not a fan of shooting one handed with the other hand in your pocket
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Done that enough over the years. Funds better spent elsewhere... planning on retiring early
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Canon are even worse for fw upgrades.
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"Luck"
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Some brilliant ones about
I'm still slightly dubious as (afaik) the testing has still been under Sony controlled conditions. Presumably they took the photographers to venues where they knew the lighting wouldn't cause issues with the eshutter. What happens with lighting in other venues?
I'm waiting for real world photos and reviews.
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That's the only sensible attitude, surely.
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Yes, Sony controlled conditions, but they looked pretty real world to me on a cold and overcast New York day - neither optimum nor dire. Poor light on a dingy British winter's afternoon and sports halls in dim artificial light is where DSLRs show their pedigree, so we'll see.
The future looks bright though, with lots more to come. From Sony no doubt with an A9R and A9S, and from Canon if they're able to put their global all-electronic shutter into a mirrorless body. And Nikon, if Sony will let them have this new sensor, that'll be interesting if unlikely in short-term.
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I think one of the Bloggers mentioned that the running track at the athletics event Sony put on was very well lit with a loads of softboxes. I can't imagine the low light performance too much beyond something like the D750, or Sony would be shouting about it as well as the other features.
I wasn't so much thinking of poor/low light, but it's my understanding that existing electronic shutters have issues with artificial light in some conditions, due to banding / the inherent flicker of artificial light sources. To be taken seriously the Sony A9 needs to be able to cope with virtually any lighting conditions using the electronic shutter, especially as without using its electronic shutter most of the headline "speed" falls away (mechanical shutter is limited to 5fps afair)
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Umn.
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All shutters, not just rolling electronic shutters, have potential for banding and flicker issues with some artificial light. The problem is the light source, flickering at 50/60Hz and changing colour, though slow-rolling shutters are more likely to show it as they take longer to complete the full exposure cycle and are therefore more likely to catch something out of sync.
The Sony test included a lot of artificial light and in the Northrups second video linked earlier they report no problems. It's mentioned at 4.45mins, plus a Sony rep's comment that there could be problems in some conditions. The only way to avoid flicker issues is with a global shutter or fast rolling shutter (which is effectively how a mechanical focal plane shutter works) and a camera that has flicker detection (some Canons) that senses the flicker and can adjust exact timing of the shutter to miss it.
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Yea the 5d4 has anti flicker mode