What is it with Parents scowling at photographers?

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This is ridiculous now is this whole thread going to turn into digging at me?
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You stated your opinion which is the opposite to the majority. I wouldn't take it personally.
 
Zuba said:
I wont know unless I come across it, just the same as if I came across a picture you took. The difference is I can do something about my picture I cant do anything about yours.

This is ridiculous now is this whole thread going to turn into digging at me? If so maybe we should change the title.
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I am sorry, I wasn't trying to dig at you. I was just trying to understand your reasoning.
I have enough issues from my past to make me a generally cautious person but I also know that most damage to children comes from people they already know. I wouldn't see that a photo of them could harm them in any way.
 
Zuba said:
I'd like to say my children are not over weight and I do allow them outside play, I have dogs, siberian huskies in fact, they require a minimum of 2hours exercise a day, if you take a look at the one I posted does she look like she lacks exercise? She gets her quota every day, I go out with my children, thats the difference, we go places, my children are young enough to be happy to be with me and i hope when they are older that they will still want to be with me because I make life fun and interesting. they will be more than prepared for the real world but i dont have to let photographers take their pictures for that to happen, do I?
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I never said that your children were over weight I was making a general statement. Fair enough you go out and exercise your dogs with your children. I hope they will be prepared for the real world. No you do not have to let photographers take their pictures for them to be prepared for the real world, but as many have said photography in a public place is legal and the photographer has the right to take photographs, like it or not.
 
Crocky said:
This sounds fabulous. Do you think they would notice one extra? Would do my 8yo the world of good.
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Zuba said:
I'd like to say my children are not over weight and I do allow them outside play, I have dogs, siberian huskies in fact, they require a minimum of 2hours exercise a day, if you take a look at the one I posted does she look like she lacks exercise? She gets her quota every day, I go out with my children, thats the difference, we go places, my children are young enough to be happy to be with me and i hope when they are older that they will still want to be with me because I make life fun and interesting. they will be more than prepared for the real world but i dont have to let photographers take their pictures for that to happen, do I?
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I don't think for one second that anyone is questioning your motivations or abilities as a parent, but I think if you have such a strongly stated view in discussion forums, it's not unreasonable for the view to be questioned and discussed.

In recent days there have been many similar threads on this subject and I commend you for actually defending your point of view - even if I don't agree with it, it's nice to have someone willing to articulate why they feel a particular way and not just resort to 'because I do' type responses.

Personally, I do believe that we (in general) are doing a great disservice to our youngsters at the moment. We have two extremely polarized camps - those who obsess far too much over their kids safety, and those who have not got the slightest idea of what little Bobby is doing out on the streets at 2am in the morning on a school night. However, I guess this is not the forum to discuss it, so that's all I'll say on the subject.
 
But it is personal cause apparently I'm upsetting a lot of people
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You're not upsetting me, anymore than if you'd come up to me saying you'd rather me not take a picture of your kid.

I did wonder though if it was you, the parent in the above picture, if you would have come over to me and the 10 others I saw with DSLRs along the parade route and have words. Plus of course the numerous others with point and shoots.
 
Zuba said:
I never said it wasn't legal just that IN MY OPINION I wouldn't like it and I'd confront you with what are you doing? and why do you want photos? If your a nice enough chap you'd be more than willing to discuss with me this and maybe offer to delete them if they really are cr*p or inappropriate and if they are good tell me where I'll find them or offer me copies.
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Thanks for the reply.
I had started to edit my above post when my internet connection crashed. I am not having a dig at you ( I saw your comment after I had posted my last post) , I was just trying to understand how someone interested in photography could also see it in such a negative way as well.
 
Zuba said:
I wont know unless I come across it, just the same as if I came across a picture you took. The difference is I can do something about my picture I cant do anything about yours.

This is ridiculous now is this whole thread going to turn into digging at me? If so maybe we should change the title.
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I don't think you need to feel so hard done by or take it too personally - you entered into a discussion with a differing viewpoint to the majority so it is natural that you are going to be asked to explain your reasoning. I think the problem is that people can see the flaw in your logic ie. you would be unhappy if someone took a photo of your child but you are quite happy to post pictures of him on the internet for all and sundry to see, copy, and do what they want with.

Realistically you are not going to know if someone has done this therefore you open your child up to equal, if not more, risk (your perception of risk - not mine). Yes, hypothetically if you found out you could do something about one of your own photos being taken, but is the "damage" not done already by that point?

Basically, you can't have it both ways - and if you really do see all photographers as perverts you're going to have to extend that thinking to everyone that views the internet and stop posting pitures of your child for all to see.

I can understand parents being protective but it winds me up when they put their children on display - be it the internet or a parade or whatever - and then decide it's ok to throw labels such as pervert around when it suits them.
 
Zuba, I understand your personal concerns, and I respect your wish not to have your children photographed, by the same token you have to understand and respect that in a public place other people have the right to take photographes if they wish.
Personally I wouldn't take photos of other peoples children unless I was comfortable they didn't mind, but that doesn't mean I want to give up the right to take them, as photographers we are all facing more and more restrictions on what we can and can't do, unless we make a stand somewhere we'll have no rights soon the way this country is going.
Zuba, this isn't ment as a personal thing, just me defending my rights, no quarrel with you. Wayne
 
Zuba,
While I understand what you are saying, I do have one more question. I have been reading through your other posts and if I understand correctly one of your children is a model, I do find it strange that you have such a paranoia about your children being photographed you are happy for them to model where you do not necessarily have the final say on how an image is used or is portrayed, can you explain how this is any different? Call me thick if you want but personally I would be more concerned with one of my children modeling than someone taking their picture in the park.
 
pcp said:
There is no problem in India... Parents loves their children to get snapped. We photographers taking advantage.
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I cant take a photograph of a child in India...







I only have a 300mm lens and india is a long way...... boom boom...

I'll get me coat :)
 
There is no problem in India... Parents loves their children to get snapped. We photographers taking advantage.
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You've got some great photos of children on your stream, that you'd be lucky to take over here.
 
richpips said:
The media prints what will sell papers, or get high viewing figures.

Someones bicycle being stolen, the bins not being emptied last week will not sell , as it's nothing new. Media requires sharp edged stories. The gorier, the scarier the better. This sell copy...........
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Why I jacked it in 12 years ago, you missed out the 'poetic license clause. When Ed tells one to "..beef it up a bit"
 
Originally Posted by Zuba
Like it or not the world we live in is changing, my children are not as free to do what they want.
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I think it's just our perception of the world which has changed. Any restrictions on their freedom is imposed by parents acting on what they think is the truth as spread by the media.


Steve.
 
Zuba said:
Actually there are strict laws, licenses and contracts to child modeling. Images on baby wear, pampers, johnsons, next, etc are under strict regulations and criteria for example images can only be used for a year from the date and if used for longer it has to be paid for and contracted. ...............
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microstock royalty free licence, rights managed and rights protected are negotiated and limitless...sorry, just for info :coat:
 
Ok so from my photo I posted can you tell me, which parks we go to? Which routes we travel on public transport, where I work, where I live, where my child goes each day? No but if you see me in public say at the park where I take my son then you already know enough about where to pick him up if he fits the criteria for a p*** ring, and before we go any further, I think i have to say when i was 15 I went to court in regard to a p*** which was on the prowl when I was six, he molested 13 children that where known of and he took pictures of children in the park including my younger brother and my friends and then he discussed in his perverted ring which children where the "nicest" then he came back to the park, kidnapped several children, threatened them not to tell took pictures of them naked and sent them home in time for tea and no one was none the wiser that this was going on until my brother confessed to me what had happened when he was 14 years old, cause he thought he might be gay because of it. Now this was a well documented case in Portsmouth about 10 years ago, so tell me because you have a camera I should allow you to take pictures of my children. I didn't want to tell you this, dont really see why I should have to but its the only way any of you are going to understand why taking pictures of my children is against MY PERSONAL boundaries like it or not stuff like that happened and for all I know probably still does.
Sorry if you dont like it, it isn't a nice subject, I didn't want to say anything about it but to be fair it was the only way you will accept anything I am saying.
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No doubt we won't change your mind.

I had a music teacher as a kid who was what these days one would term a kiddy fiddler.

I can't say I hold it against his profession though.
 
Zuba said:
I don't hold it against his profession either, he worked for the airlines from what I could gather, I don't not go on holiday abroad because of one person.
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Yet you consider all photographers suspect because of him?

Steve.
 
Zuba said:
I don't hold it against his profession either, he worked for the airlines from what I could gather, I don't not go on holiday abroad because of one person.
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Well my point was that just because there is one bad egg with a camera and ulterior motives, does not mean that it is therefore true of the rest of us who wield one.
 
Zuba said:
Ok so from my photo I posted can you tell me, which parks we go to? Which routes we travel on public transport, where I work, where I live, where my child goes each day? No but if you see me in public say at the park where I take my son then you already know enough about where to pick him up if he fits the criteria for a p*** ring, and before we go any further, I think i have to say when i was 15 I went to court in regard to a p*** which was on the prowl when I was six, he molested 13 children that where known of and he took pictures of children in the park including my younger brother and my friends and then he discussed in his perverted ring which children where the "nicest" then he came back to the park, kidnapped several children, threatened them not to tell took pictures of them naked and sent them home in time for tea and no one was none the wiser that this was going on until my brother confessed to me what had happened when he was 14 years old, cause he thought he might be gay because of it. Now this was a well documented case in Portsmouth about 10 years ago, so tell me because you have a camera I should allow you to take pictures of my children. I didn't want to tell you this, dont really see why I should have to but its the only way any of you are going to understand why taking pictures of my children is against MY PERSONAL boundaries like it or not stuff like that happened and for all I know probably still does.
Sorry if you dont like it, it isn't a nice subject, I didn't want to say anything about it but to be fair it was the only way you will accept anything I am saying.
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OK that certainly makes it clearer why you do not want photographs taken of your children. But as Richpips said and I can also say, I had a teacher at school who was put inside for child molesting does that mean that I do not send my kids to school because of that teacher, no of course not because that would be taring the entire teaching profession with the same brush.

Zuba said:
But thats where it is different I have complete control over what images they take, I wouldn't allow them to shoot anything against my wishes, I am always on set with my child and nothing they can say or do will bend my beliefs as to what they want him to do. You are always told for what company you are working for and what the images are to be used for before hand, contracts are signed and my local council has to give permission on the shoot also, else I could use children to earn me money, money is paid into his bank account which he gains control over at 18.
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Ok that is fine you have control of what his photo is used for, but once it is published you have no control over who gets hold of it or what it is used for.

I am playing devils advocate here slightly, An image taken by a tog in the park will be seen by him or if he is very keen he will but it on a forum for critique. Where as a photograph used for a ad campaign seen by 100's of thousands of people

I understand that I will not change you opinion, but I am interested to know if you see my logic?


Blimey, I can not type fast enough. more posts answering some of the points I was bringing up
 
Zuba said:
Ok so from my photo I posted can you tell me, which parks we go to? Which routes we travel on public transport, where I work, where I live, where my child goes each day? No but if you see me in public say at the park where I take my son then you already know enough about where to pick him up if he fits the criteria for a p*** ring, and before we go any further, I think i have to say when i was 15 I went to court in regard to a p*** which was on the prowl when I was six, he molested 13 children that where known of and he took pictures of children in the park including my younger brother and my friends and then he discussed in his perverted ring which children where the "nicest" then he came back to the park, kidnapped several children, threatened them not to tell took pictures of them naked and sent them home in time for tea and no one was none the wiser that this was going on until my brother confessed to me what had happened when he was 14 years old, cause he thought he might be gay because of it. Now this was a well documented case in Portsmouth about 10 years ago, so tell me because you have a camera I should allow you to take pictures of my children. I didn't want to tell you this, dont really see why I should have to but its the only way any of you are going to understand why taking pictures of my children is against MY PERSONAL boundaries like it or not stuff like that happened and for all I know probably still does.
Sorry if you dont like it, it isn't a nice subject, I didn't want to say anything about it but to be fair it was the only way you will accept anything I am saying.
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I'm sorry that your family (anyones family for that matter) were involved in this and appreciate that your own experiences are going to shape your opinion but as you say yourself, just being in a public place and being seen in the park could put your child at risk - that doesn't make everyone in the park with eyes a pervert.
 
Its amazingly rare for that sort of thing to happen, its totally despicable and I feel for you and the experience you had to endure.

However in the main (and I've had some training in these things) abuse is almost always carried out by people who know the children or who have carefully groomed them in advance and if a child is well educated in how this can happen then this is the best way to prevent it.

Again I reiterate I don't take photos of other peoples children (not as the main subject and only by mistake if they do get in shot unless I have a release form), but I'm not against other people doing so despite the number of Child Protection cases I have been involved in, because we can't let ourselves give in to the paranoia that other people want to hurt our children and that around every corner is a child molester.

All IMHO of course

MB
 
Zuba said:
I do not consider all photographers suspect only the ones who I dont know, are taking pics of my children and cant be bothered to approach me and tell me about it. How is that all? So far only one photographer in public has taken any photo's of my son and he approached and asked if he could and explained that my son's face was a picture, never seen a giraffe before we were at the zoo and he was just staring agape.
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But do you ask consent for everything that you each day that is legal. I suspect the answer is no, and to be honest I am sure that it does not even cross a lot of togs mind when doing candid shots. Also would it make a difference if it was a dslr or a point and shoot.
 
Zuba said:
You are not getting my logic on this one, can you tell me where the baby on the pampers box lives? plays? goes to nursery? Yet if I am out and about in my local places then its easy to find where my children live, play, etc because we are there for all to see and we'll be there again whether its tomorrow, next week, next month, etc.
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No I am not getting your logic as in your profile on this site you have put you live in Pompy and have also posted a picture of your son and your very unusual dogs. I know pompy is big but you have posted enough information about yourself that if someone really wanted to they could find you. Do not forget that all your posts are in the public domain.
 
ok

what about taking pictures of adults.?

That lady in the photo could be hiding from her husband who beat her to a pulp.

now by pure chance someone who knows him tells him and he now knows where she lives.

Or she could be in witness protection.

just playing devils advocate.
 
Zuba said:
I am not against togs taking pictures of children, just my children, there are a million children out there and if you want to take pics of kids then choose them, not mine, I unfortunately was in a position whereby my brother was molested and I did nothing to stop it (ok I was 6 I had no idea) however now its in my power to make sure it doesn't happen to my children and thats exactly what I am going to do. By the way my brother and I haven't spoken for 4 years now, he blames me, I was older, its his choice and I'm not upset about it anymore but I am not going down that route with my children, thats all I have to say I feel I'm just repeating myself now.
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Unfortunately those individuals that do this sort of thing tend not tend to approach children when their parents are there or they are very close to the family and would never even be suspected.

I am sure you already teach your child about 'stranger danger' and this is the most effective way to keep them from harm as unfortunately we can't be by their sides all through their lives.

Anyway I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs :shrug:

MB
 
Zuba said:
But thats where it is different I have complete control over what images they take, I wouldn't allow them to shoot anything against my wishes, I am always on set with my child and nothing they can say or do will bend my beliefs as to what they want him to do. You are always told for what company you are working for and what the images are to be used for before hand, contracts are signed and my local council has to give permission on the shoot also, else I could use children to earn me money, money is paid into his bank account which he gains control over at 18.
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But the agency have your name and address, so someone there could find your child if they wanted to, from your address they could make a guess as to what school he's most lightly goes to, or which local park you may visit. Any of your neighbours could be dodgy, and it's a fact that most abusers are known to the child, either family or friends, they know where you live and go to play.
What pictures could someone take in the street that would be different from the ones taken in a studio. Wayne
 
How would i persuade you I was not sinister?
Or how would you know if I was?
 
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