What prompts you to comment/offer feedback

ernesto said:
It isn't bizarre if you appreciate that the qualified member may not like critique sections of forums. They don't have to like them or participate in that part of the forum.
They can offer help and advice in many other areas though.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris - which was exactly what I'd said before he butchered my post for his own twisted fun:cautious:.
 
ChrisGilbert said:
Of course. But critique is only valid, IMO, if the intent is known. It's difficult to offer advice when you don't know the difference between what was aimed for and what was actually achieved. For all I know the OP might have been aiming for a badly focussed, incorrectly exposed shot with a wonky horizon and a bent white balance ;)
Click to expand...

And for all Gordon Ramsey knows, a new chef was aiming to have a foul tasting soup with the look of cow pat and consistency of brains... but he has to judge it based firstly what would be technically correct and secondly what he would have preferred in his experience.

If the photographer aimed at whatever is technically wrong it should be mentioned otherwise the person offering critique is going to do what the above scenario would be.

I would have thought It's fairly obvious though to see the work from your critique and decide weather you like their work and if indeed it is on par or above your perceived level in which case you can gladly accept and appreciate the time taken. If not he or she can be asked to explain their critique further.
 
Phil Young said:
And for all Gordon Ramsey knows, a new chef was aiming to have a foul tasting soup with the look of cow pat and consistency of brains... but he has to judge it based firstly what would be technically correct and secondly what he would have preferred in his experience.
Click to expand...

I can see where you're going with that analogy but there's a difference between a recipe and piece of art. When it comes to critique who is qualified to judge ? Sure, I know how I would have done things and I may even have done things differently to the OP but am I correct ? Who am I to say ?

I will add, however, that I do sometimes offer advice via private email rather than in the forum.
 
Phil V said:
I like the way you selectively quoted me to completely change what I said - Well done, you could get a job on a tabloid.:clap::clap::clap::clap:
Click to expand...

As the thread is about giving critique I don't think anything was "selective".
You work as a 'pro' photographer (assuming you class a wedding tog as a pro?) so you are presumably qualified to give crit ... you choose not to and obviously feel very strongly about not helping out in that section.
I don't think I've been selective at all, I think I summed it up quite succinctly.
 
gramps said:
As the thread is about giving critique I don't think anything was "selective".
You work as a 'pro' photographer (assuming you class a wedding tog as a pro?) so you are presumably qualified to give crit ... you choose not to and obviously feel very strongly about not helping out in that section.
I don't think I've been selective at all, I think I summed it up quite succinctly.
Click to expand...
Except you said nothing about 'that section'. Just as a reminder(y)

gramps said:
Really? The idea that qualified members should help others in improving their photography is a bizarre concept ... sorry but I find that bizarre! :shake:
Click to expand...
Despite saying how much I helped others in other sections... You ignored that look^ - so selective, I think most people would agree(y)

I could spend all night linking to posts and PMs where I've been thanked for my help and advice - most other pro's on here could do the same, full time or part time (mere wedding togs and commercial photographers alike).

But the fact that I don't like critique sections makes me 'unhelpful':shrug:.

That's some conclusion to draw. Note I didn't selectively quote you - that's your entire post to show exactly the kind old gentleman that you are:)
I do hope most people don't see it as the words of some bitter rambling old curmudgeon, that would be so unfair;).

I know the memory goes with age, but I'll remind you that my original post was in reply to you suggesting that pro's were obliged to give critique because they were somehow qualified. I was simply pointing out that people give help in many ways and choosing not to spend time in any section is a freedom we all enjoy:).
 
sunnyside_up said:
Actually, I thought by posting in the critique section means that you're looking for critique. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Well I just searched using the Search function for anything you've posted as thread starter in the Feedback section for the last month and it said... nothing

:razz::razz::razz:

Dave
 
ChrisGilbert said:
I can see where you're going with that analogy but there's a difference between a recipe and piece of art. When it comes to critique who is qualified to judge ? Sure, I know how I would have done things and I may even have done things differently to the OP but am I correct ? Who am I to say ?

I will add, however, that I do sometimes offer advice via private email rather than in the forum.
Click to expand...

Anyone is qualified to give out their opinions and anyone that knows is qualified to give technically right advice.

We work from inspiration and I don't think we should ignore others inspiration for us when handed to us on a plate.

Weather he or she takes this knowledge and advice is up to them.
 
DG Phototraining said:
Well I just searched using the Search function for anything you've posted as thread starter in the Feedback section for the last month and it said... nothing

:razz::razz::razz:

Dave
Click to expand...

Huh??? Then that's wrong because I just posted an image of my son just the other day. I have posted quite a few lately using some urban backgrounds...But this thread was in no way reference to me, my posts or my feedback on my work... I think on only one occasion i have posted an image outside of the 'feedback and critique' area... But feel free to have a look.
 
ChrisGilbert said:
Granted - and in the same vein it's entirely up to the individual as to whether or not advice is offered, surely ...?
Click to expand...

I prefer weather the person wants to help others or not.

Having said that, there is a lot of critique going on for the wrong reasons which is annoying (gets into a debate and then one person is holding a grudge etc).

On the whole though I don't see why one wouldn't want to share their experience, knowledge and vision with others...
 
Phil Young said:
I prefer weather the person wants to help others or not.

Having said that, there is a lot of critique going on for the wrong reasons which is annoying (gets into a debate and then one person is holding a grudge etc).

On the whole though I don't see why one wouldn't want to share their experience, knowledge and vision with others...
Click to expand...

For me, certainly, you've touched on a very important aspect and that is that people simply disagree on things and end up arguing about pretty trivial stuff. It's happened in every forum I've been on (hmmmm, connections...? :LOL: ) but I have to say that the main reason why I don't offer critique is that, in my experience, it's rarely appreciated, as suggested by others higher up the thread. It also gets hard to tell whether someone genuinely wants help or simply a pat on the back and, again, someone will take umbrage if the wrong thing is said. In the end it's easier just to say nothing .... unless it's a genuinely great piece of work in which case applause is due.
 
ChrisGilbert said:
For me, certainly, you've touched on a very important aspect and that is that people simply disagree on things and end up arguing about pretty trivial stuff. It's happened in every forum I've been on (hmmmm, connections...? :LOL: ) but I have to say that the main reason why I don't offer critique is that, in my experience, it's rarely appreciated, as suggested by others higher up the thread. It also gets hard to tell whether someone genuinely wants help or simply a pat on the back and, again, someone will take umbrage if the wrong thing is said. In the end it's easier just to say nothing .... unless it's a genuinely great piece of work in which case applause is due.
Click to expand...

See where you're coming from Chris, I think that if it helps you become better, doesn't matter why the person advices as long as that advice is good.

I've had some amazing advice and advice that was... not.

I like people commenting on how it can be improved, if I couldn't take constructive criticism then I wouldn't post (and those people that do but can't are silly!).

I think what's annoying is when you go to an effort to help others but get nothing helpful in return (I say that as a photography community not individual).

Also when people give advice that clearly would not improve the image... that's annoying.

And when people are just spouting out unhelpful rubbish to like you said, get a pat on the back.

I'm all up for sharing opinions and trying out new editing etc to improve my work and if I think I can add something to an image I will always genuinely try to help.
 
Phil V said:
Except you said nothing about 'that section'. Just as a reminder(y)


Despite saying how much I helped others in other sections... You ignored that look^ - so selective, I think most people would agree(y)

I could spend all night linking to posts and PMs where I've been thanked for my help and advice - most other pro's on here could do the same, full time or part time (mere wedding togs and commercial photographers alike).

But the fact that I don't like critique sections makes me 'unhelpful':shrug:.

That's some conclusion to draw. Note I didn't selectively quote you - that's your entire post to show exactly the kind old gentleman that you are:)
I do hope most people don't see it as the words of some bitter rambling old curmudgeon, that would be so unfair;).

I know the memory goes with age, but I'll remind you that my original post was in reply to you suggesting that pro's were obliged to give critique because they were somehow qualified. I was simply pointing out that people give help in many ways and choosing not to spend time in any section is a freedom we all enjoy:).
Click to expand...

Whatever, take it to that level if you wish :shrug:
 
gramps said:
Whatever, take it to that level if you wish :shrug:
Click to expand...

It should stop you misquoting people, maybe you'll think twice before weighing in with something similar in future. :THUMBS:
 
Phil V said:
Except you said nothing about 'that section'. Just as a reminder(y)

Despite saying how much I helped others in other sections... You ignored that look^ - so selective, I think most people would agree(y)

I could spend all night linking to posts and PMs where I've been thanked for my help and advice - most other pro's on here could do the same, full time or part time (mere wedding togs and commercial photographers alike).

But the fact that I don't like critique sections makes me 'unhelpful':shrug:.

That's some conclusion to draw. Note I didn't selectively quote you - that's your entire post to show exactly the kind old gentleman that you are:)
I do hope most people don't see it as the words of some bitter rambling old curmudgeon, that would be so unfair;).

I know the memory goes with age, but I'll remind you that my original post was in reply to you suggesting that pro's were obliged to give critique because they were somehow qualified. I was simply pointing out that people give help in many ways and choosing not to spend time in any section is a freedom we all enjoy:).
Click to expand...

Ouch... just seen this.

Bit of a bad sport there don't you think Phil?

You both have valid points, personally I edge towards you Phil - I never see you post for critique so wouldn't expect you to give any. I know and everybody else knows you help out where you feel you can provide the best advice so I definitely think you do your part for society :)

Just in the spirit of fairness think that was harsh and uncalled for...
 
Phil Young said:
Ouch... just seen this.

Bit of a bad sport there don't you think Phil?

You both have valid points, personally I edge towards you Phil - I never see you post for critique so wouldn't expect you to give any. I know and everybody else knows you help out where you feel you can provide the best advice so I definitely think you do your part for society :)

Just in the spirit of fairness think that was harsh and uncalled for...
Click to expand...

Of course Phil, the community only works because of the help given by experienced members. Both amateur and pro.

But to suggest that people ought to be obliged to visit sections and post where they have no interest is ludicrous.
 
Phil Young said:
I agree with you 100% ...still think it was a bit harsh to talk about age though.
Click to expand...

He's probably no older than me, he calls himself Gramps. I have an odd sense of humour. What more can I add.
 
Pretty sure that the only thread I've started in the C&C section was this one. Either I got practically everything right (which I find hard to believe!!!) or I picked all the holes in the pics myself (as I say in that thread, I'm my own worst critic). I have to admit that I was half hoping somebody would try the de-fish and/or perspective correction and post the results - people have said how quick and easy it is to do!
 
Phil Young said:
Grammmmps!!!!

...how old are you!?!?! Lol
Click to expand...

65 Phil, since you ask, though I don't think that will make any difference to being verbally attacked either now or in the future.
A shame that the subject of helping others with critique brings such angst!
 
gramps said:
65 Phil, since you ask, though I don't think that will make any difference to being verbally attacked either now or in the future.
A shame that the subject of helping others with critique brings such angst!
Click to expand...

At the risk of sounding like a stroppy teenager, you started the personal attacks! It's all up there^

I'll not bother quoting again as you clearly will never admit what you did, even when shown the evidence. As soon as I proved you wrong, you acted all wounded soldier:cautious:

A simple - 'I can see why you thought that but it wasn't my intention', would have worked, but denying flat out that you'd done it when it was quoted back at you:wacky:.
 
Maybe there should be a critiquing peoples posts section. That would get more interest and response that critiquing photos I reckon and I would be an active member :)
 
Here's a funny one: When I first started posting here, I had people compliment some of my images ... fast forward a little and I got in some heated arguments [who doesn't on here?!] here and there, just mainly for being as straight and abrupt as I am at times - never mean harm, just having my say - and next thing I get people offering their 'critique' on some of my images, not ones posted on here, never asked for opinion on them - yet they decided they should let me know my pictures stink ...

So i would wonder how genuine some are when offering their 'expertise' -if it's asked for, people shouldn't bother unless they are going to be genuine, and not let personal differences hinder their evaluation. I wouldn't ask for critique in here for that reason, I just know I'll get some nasty comments just because it's me ... and that, is sad, on a photography forum.
 
I think internet forums would make a good case study - "interaction of users and behavioural changes when using a forum" as they truly are an odd thing.
 
Most of it would need to concentrate on 'clique' nature of forums. It only takes one of a clique to take you on before the other hyenas follow suit.

On critique though, I have always offered it on other forums, where there is less conflicts. I would never be needlessly mean or negative regarding anyone else's work/art - but may offer an alternative, a what I might have done here type thing. Or indeed, if it's great in my eyes, I don't mind saying so.
 
That is the point that is sometimes missed, critique is only ever your opinion of it but should be given anyway. Whether the person who offered their photo wants to take it or ignore it is up to them but they shouldn't be arguing about it or get upset about it and if they do they are not the sort of person who can handle it so shouldn't be asking for it.
 
Cagey75 said:
Here's a funny one: When I first started posting here, I had people compliment some of my images ... fast forward a little and I got in some heated arguments [who doesn't on here?!] here and there, just mainly for being as straight and abrupt as I am at times - never mean harm, just having my say - and next thing I get people offering their 'critique' on some of my images, not ones posted on here, never asked for opinion on them - yet they decided they should let me know my pictures stink ...

So i would wonder how genuine some are when offering their 'expertise' -if it's asked for, people shouldn't bother unless they are going to be genuine, and not let personal differences hinder their evaluation. I wouldn't ask for critique in here for that reason, I just know I'll get some nasty comments just because it's me ... and that, is sad, on a photography forum.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head there.

It's sad that a lot of people hold grudges for such trivial things and extend threads into other threads onto critique so on and so forth.

I think that's the most annoying thing: the attitude of "we've had a disagreement so I won't help him".
 
Yup, see it over and over. And often just as a bystander. I've no hate for anyone, especially online where most of us will never truly know one another. It's all just words taken up wrong most times I think.

That's true ernesto, of they ask, you're free to offer up opinion. But o would tend not to until I've entered some for c&c myself.
 
Phil Young said:
It's sad that a lot of people hold grudges for such trivial things and extend threads into other threads onto critique so on and so forth.
Click to expand...

Human nature though isn't it and not a forum specific thing. I can have a very heated debate with a person yet still get along with them fine the following day while others may never talk to each other again.

It helps that I am not an emotional person and never take things personally I suppose.
 
Phil V said:
At the risk of sounding like a stroppy teenager, you started the personal attacks! It's all up there^

I'll not bother quoting again as you clearly will never admit what you did, even when shown the evidence. As soon as I proved you wrong, you acted all wounded soldier:cautious:

A simple - 'I can see why you thought that but it wasn't my intention', would have worked, but denying flat out that you'd done it when it was quoted back at you:wacky:.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I made no personal attack on you and it isn't up there^
You are the one that made the issue personal as at least one other member noted.
My comments about it being bizarre that 'pro' members couldn't offer critique (what this whole entire thread started off about, not other aspects of the forum!) was perfectly reasonable, truthful and the experience of most who post in the critique section.
Anyway you've made you feelings known, I've noted them and now moving on.
 
This is also the sort of stuff that I was making reference to awhile back ... I'm going to use this thread as an example as it was the first one I came across:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=459541

'Gentle, first uploads'... and then in the body they actually said 'I'm new to photography, slating the hell out of me won't help'....

There are plenty of new threads in the critique sections whereby either the title is 'first upload, be gentle' (or words to that effect) or they're asking for people to 'be nice' in their feedback/critique.... Almost like there is a reputation for negativity.

And I think that's a little worrying...
 
sunnyside_up said:
This is also the sort of stuff that I was making reference to awhile back ... I'm going to use this thread as an example as it was the first one I came across:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=459541

'Gentle, first uploads'... and then in the body they actually said 'I'm new to photography, slating the hell out of me won't help'....

There are plenty of new threads in the critique sections whereby either the title is 'first upload, be gentle' (or words to that effect) or they're asking for people to 'be nice' in their feedback/critique.... Almost like there is a reputation for negativity.

And I think that's a little worrying...
Click to expand...

I'm sure some do make those comments after seeing some of the unkind remark made in other threads (by unkind I mean rude, not just pointing out defects) but I wonder if others just realise their own limitations and "Newbie, be kind" comments are just their way of pointing out their inexperience?
 
gramps said:
I'm sure some do make those comments after seeing some of the unkind remark made in other threads (by unkind I mean rude, not just pointing out defects) but I wonder if others just realise their own limitations and "Newbie, be kind" comments are just their way of pointing out their inexperience?
Click to expand...

True... I never thought of it that way...
 
gramps said:
Sorry but I made no personal attack on you and it isn't up there^
You are the one that made the issue personal as at least one other member noted.
My comments about it being bizarre that 'pro' members couldn't offer critique (what this whole entire thread started off about, not other aspects of the forum!) was perfectly reasonable, truthful and the experience of most who post in the critique section.
Anyway you've made you feelings known, I've noted them and now moving on.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but you edited my post to make me appear unhelpful. As far as I'm concerned, that's a personal attack.

As others have pointed out, the critique sections are a minefield of egos and I can live without it. I give more than I take in meaningful and helpful advice and my conscience is clear. Im old enough to know I can't please all of the people all of the time.

Btw you can search for my comments in the critique section and you'll find that whilst rare they're not at all unhelpful. :THUMBS:
 
I am not sure as to why I comment. Sometimes I look at some photos and don't comment as either people have already commented a lot, or the photo does nothing for me.
 
For me, this early in my hobby, it's just a photo that takes my eye. A subject that's appealing to me but I've never really thought of it as something that would take my fancy.

I've only ever responded to a few photos on here as I don't have the skills to offer any C & C (well, the critique part at least!!) There's just things that you all see in the photo that I just don't. That doesn't stop me liking your photos though!! :D
 
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for taking the time to comment on this thread. It's been good reading.
 
As a newcomer I welcome all the help I can get. On my shots I try to put how I took it and what difficulty I had. That way I hope folk can give me more directed tips. I would really like to see how other people take their shots. What camera, lens, settings, light, time of day etc and how they overcome any difficulties. That's the way I think I can learn better.

I'd like to think I will never get into a war of words through being defensive. Here to learn from experienced folk!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top