Who thinks DSLR / Mirrorles and equipment is complicated

Yes or no or maybe

  • I'm fine with the complication

    Votes: 50 51.0%

  • It is somewhat tedious

    Votes: 26 26.5%

  • No I am not keen at all

    Votes: 10 10.2%

  • I just love it

    Votes: 21 21.4%

  • I just hate it

    Votes: 7 7.1%
  • Total voters
    98
F1.2

F1.2

Messages
3,980
Name
Allen
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Yes
My opinion is yes , I have the owners manual for my 5D mk3 ( Old tech now ) and it runs to 400 pages
Also have a Nikon SB900 flash unit that is over 100 pages
What the heck is this photography gone mad ?
It does my head in. But that's maybe just me , Lets see .
 
Obviously "some" of it is, some isn't.

When I ran a beginners class, by far the biggest difficulty all students had was actually making their camera do what they wanted it to do. They had no problems with technical concepts but when it came down to practising them, people got very frustrated with the box in their hands and massive manuals. When I did a lesson on film, and showed simple film cameras, a common response was "why don't they make digital ones like that?"

I do feel that some manufacturers really have a lot to learn when it comes to UI. Fortunately, these days, a lot of cameras come with customisable function buttons/dials as well as customisable quick menus making finding the thing you need easier. I have my R6 set up now so that I never need to go into the menu apart from a few functions that are all set up in the quick menu. I'd be stuffed if the camera reset itself though and would have to spend another hour or two with YouTube videos and the manual to get it back.

Have to say though that the way they set up the GR3 menus was very good. That was easy to use out of the box.
 
Depends how tech savvy you are and your age.

I work in IT and at 56 I still have a brain that can assimilate new information so on that score I'm happy to learn new things about what a camera can do.

Others are not so fortunate and maybe not so tech savvy.
 
took me months to figure out how aperture works.. I used to hate it when asking a question people would say "why not read the manual" some of the wording and even some of the words where beyon me :(
 
I’ve grown up with the canon menu system over quite a few years now, gradually exploring more of the options to fine tune as i encountered problems and discovered how to address them, or trying out new features that became available in successive model releases. If I was starting from scratch now it might be overwhelming. But I like being to customize buttons and settings to suit what I need and get better and more reliable results.
 
Having been cursed with a stupidly high IQ and having an electronics/computer engineering background, it doesn't bother me in the slightest - it's just people I have trouble with. :runaway:

Given all the bells and whistles, I still prefer to shoot mostly in manual. It's only when the situation demands speed that I'll use aperture or shutter speed priority (which is rarely) that I'll ever change it.

I can fully understand people that don't though, as my dad was a complete technophobe and my brother still is, so I've always had to show them how to deal with their 'gadgets'. :rolleyes:
 
In use it's much easier than taking & processing your own colour film. I don't find the complications of any of my multiple systems intimidating.
However I wouldn't stand a chance of fixing the electronics - That's really complicated!
 
I never read the manual - you can probably tell from the images I post - the camera tells me everything I need to know
 
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I think it helps if you got into photography before the advent of digital cameras. You'll then have been forced to learn the basics as a foundation upon which to build. I probably use 10% of the functionality of my Nikon ZF or ZF-C but largely because I don't need to.

Thom Hogan's books can be of great help to those who entered photography recently.
 
Petrochemist said:
In use it's much easier than taking & processing your own colour film.
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I'd have to disagree with that, it's a doddle - it's far easier than black and white. If you can make a mushroom omelette or a 'real' cup of coffee, you will be able to develop colour film.
 
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Sky said:
I'd have to disagree with that, it's a doddle - it's far easier than black and white. If you can make a mushroom omelette you will be able to develop colour film.
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I will 2nd that. I have been doing so since around 1992, all it needs is a little more care with temperatures/times and you have cracked it Likewise printing. If you use the same film and RA4 developer once you have got the colour balance correct there will be very little deviation, My only regret is there is no way of brightening up a dull day but there again if that is what it was like just go with it.
 
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F1.2 said:
My opinion is yes , I have the owners manual for my 5D mk3 ( Old tech now ) and it runs to 400 pages
Also have a Nikon SB900 flash unit that is over 100 pages
What the heck is this photography gone mad ?
It does my head in. But that's maybe just me , Lets see .
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Likewise. I am now fortunate enough to be able to afford some high end film camera equipment, including a Nikon F6 and a Nikon F2a. The F6 is used for colour negative film and the F2a for B&W. The F6 remains on AF Single shot (Helps my eyes no end) and the metering left on matrix because I know it will work. I can also use Nikon AF lenses on both, so less weight to carry around with me. There is no need to change anything otherwise you would be spending more time fiddling with the various buttons and switches, than pressing the shutter button. With the F2a you have little option but to use the actually quite accurate built in meter, and change the aperture/shutter manually, then you just need to know where to point it.

My 2nd ever SLR was a Pentax SV, way back in 1964 and three lenses (28, 55, & 135mm) and even when learning the tricks of the trade that combo gave me some of the best and memorable pictures that I have ever taken. Why complicate matters when you are aware what things do if you change this or that, rather than referring to book with size 5 font to try to decipher what it is all about, and probably get it wrong anyway! Life is complicated enough as it is so why make it more so.
 
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You need a 'no, it's not complicated ' poll option.

Mirrorless especially, but DSLRs too, have made photography much easier to learn. Effect of aperture - 30 sec et Voila! Shutter speed, ISO, spot Vs average metering, all ditto.

What we do see are often poor design choices in the menu systems, but that's often quite separate from basic use as a camera. It's great to have eye detection, auto bracketing, in camera stacking and panoramas, time lapse, all kinds of wonderful ways to record video, but these things just need a bit of time in the manual.

But manual mode? On my A7III, noted for being complicated - just turn the dial to M and it's waiting for you. Need auto exposure - use P (professional mode ;) ). Etc.
 
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It can be, if you let it! I prefer to stick pretty much to the basics and leave most of the bells and whistles alone.
 
To be honest mirrorless cameras are complicated now but that’s just because they can do so many things, the autofocus is incredible once it’s setup properly
I was lost as well but someone on here posted a video which I used to setup my R5 , followed it exactly and I’m all good now , camera does just what I want
Have saved the settings to a card in case I accidentally change something :rolleyes:
 
Sky said:
I'd have to disagree with that, it's a doddle - it's far easier than black and white. If you can make a mushroom omelette or a 'real' cup of coffee, you will be able to develop colour film.
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I can make a decent espresso, pretty good flat white, mushroom omelette, perfect steak.
I can’t pretend I could process a film again tomorrow if pushed though .

My cameras? I set up to fit the way I shoot, and using them becomes muscle memory. If I had to set up a different brand from scratch though? It’d be a very steep learning curve.

The exposure triangle stuff is pretty basic; the ‘eye’ bit, whether you consider a natural talent or the rules is fairly straightforward too.

All of that makes you a ‘decent’ photographer, to be a great one requires the in-depth understanding of your subject. And that genuinely is the hard bit.
 
I only ever cross that bridge when I come to it. ;)
 
Someone new to photography is given or buys a state of the art digital camera of whatever make, will be struggling to learn all the new terms. I know, I did when digital was quite new. What went through my mind was WHY? That is the reason I returned to film because I want to enjoy photography and not become geeky-fied with all the different modes and features they now have, but will be rarely used. Yes I use a digital on occasion- an Nikon D300s as old as the hill digital wise but it is very rarely set on anything other than App priority, Auto single shot, single focus point, because I don't need it. I learned the craft the hard way and know the capability of a camera and what it can do for me

For someone new to the game, It is a bit like letting someone loose with a high powered sports car when they have never driven anything. Fortunately when tackling a new camera, there is little risk of killing someone with a camera, unless through utter frustration of getting the damn thing to do what you want, you throw it out of a window and it hits someone on the head. I am all for making things easy but when you are faced with a handbook printed in a very small font, I sort of loose interest. Even when wearing my reading glasses I struggle.
 
When I first moved to a DSLR from film cameras, I could just use the mode I was used to (Av), adjusting white balance was less work than selecting colour correction filter, ISO could be left alone (as with film) or adjusted if the current subject warranted it. Selecting lenses & focusing was no different to the latest film SLRs (though most of my kit needed manual focusing)
There was instant feedback available so if my setting pushed things to far I could see & adjust rather than just losing the shot.
I'd say SOOC jpeg output actually made it less complicated than the film option. That wouldn't have been getting the very best from the DSLR but often better than the SLR (even without the processing step).

Yes todays cameras have loads of extra options, but you don't need to use them to get everyday images and there are evn full auto type settings where the camera will make it's best guess at whats right if you are scared of the complications.
 
The basic exposure, depth of field and focusing are no different to film, I just applied those, the big boon was the auto focusing, just had to make sure it was pointing at the right thing. I have to confess there are options I've never used on my DSLR's
 
I like the Fuji way of doing things - dials for aperture/shutter speed/ISO, all with an "A" for automatic.
 
KIPAX said:
took me months to figure out how aperture works.. I used to hate it when asking a question people would say "why not read the manual" some of the wording and even some of the words where beyon me :(
Click to expand...

That's how I felt when I started out. I read the manual of my camera from front to back and found out how to adjust things, but had no idea why I'd need to, or what a good setting for it was.
 
Try keeping up or even "learning" Photoshop - at least Adobe keep adding to Lightroom, little by little

I have a purge on using PS, don't use it for a few months and then I've forgotten most of what I once knew
 
I'll look at the manual (or online) as and when I need to. Other than that, I think I'm ok ish. Like everything. Once you get used to it, it's muscle memory.
Think of driving... Look where you're going, steer the car, check the mirrors, clutch in, change gear, ease clutch off and throttle up. Lots going on almost all at the same time ;)
 
I could tick all of these choices.

I love being able to do something technologically clever when I feel the need, and I spend sufficient time studying how to use my cameras to know what they are capable of.

But, I hate it when the technology gets in the way and does something a bit bewildering, However, the more often I use a camera the less often it becomes bewildering.

But being able to go from using only basic tools, (much of the time I use all manual, including manual focus lenses). all the way to bird eye AF and a choice of multiple AF and auto-exposure options is fantastic.

I do yearn a little for the old days and a simpler approach when it comes to landscape (but even in the old days there were different technical challenges e.g. learning to use camera movements properly) but overall I like the flexibility and versatility of modern high end digital cameras. I can live with the complexity.
 
Rodinal said:
That is the reason I returned to film because I want to enjoy photography and not become geeky-fied with all the different modes and features they now have, but will be rarely used.
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It’s funny how we’re all different. To me there’s nothing ‘geekier’ in photography than developing film and prints.

And there’s nothing ‘less geeky’ than setting up my camera to make it easy to use and super efficient. After all; the important part of the effort should be in creating the image.
 
artyman said:
The basic exposure, depth of field and focusing are no different to film, I just applied those, the big boon was the auto focusing, just had to make sure it was pointing at the right thing. I have to confess there are options I've never used on my DSLR's
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All of us. :)

I only went from Medium format to an AF SLR a very short time before I bought a digital SLR. I could happily shoot a full manual camera tomorrow, but I can’t see the point in shooting film, or indeed shooting in modes that mean I’m more likely to miss a shot.
 
For me the great thing about digital is the instant feedback. You can see your picture and understand how the settings impact it. Yes there are more variables than film eg white balance, but you don’t have to wait [insert processing time] to see the results and therefore learning is easier.
 
I'm fine with most cameras but... Some compacts/bridge cameras have insane menues. One I tried had the menu change depending on what mode you were in, very logical as Spock would say!
My Lumix has the most used buton (image review) to also switch on 4k burst mode. What a great idea, your taking pics, a quick check how the last shot looks and bingo, your in 4k (done it twice so far) And I cant find an easy way to disable the feature either. Mind there probably is in the menu, but then I can probably direct air traffic from the menu too...... ;)
I really wonder how many shooters use many of the features, most probably never get used.
 
My problem isn't my cameras - I read the manuals, use them, play around and learn. My problem is when Mrs Boots thrusts her camera at me and says "it's not doing x" or "how do I make it do y?".
 
Purely selfishly, modern cameras have far more features and options than I would ever use. Customisable buttons? No, I forget what I've set them to. BUT what I need and use is very different to the next person, so keep up the developments. I can choose to ignore the bits I don't want.
 
eoSimon said:
For me the great thing about digital is the instant feedback. You can see your picture and understand how the settings impact it. Yes there are more variables than film eg white balance, but you don’t have to wait [insert processing time] to see the results and therefore learning is easier.
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What is the rush with everything these days there is plenty of time for everything. Sit back and relax and enjoy life not worrying about white balance/memory cardsfilling up and enjoy life.
Much the same with drivers these days they go up to a junction wait until it is clear (sometimes) then accelerate like the proverbial bat, and have to brake hard for the next bend. They don't gain anything except a bigger fuel bill and servicing charges.

Photography is an art. Not the type of art using a brush and a palette, but one of many life skills that are best learned slowly and thoroughly. Where is the skill in pointing a camera and pressing a button you learn very little. Then after spending heaven knows how much on new equipment hanker after the latest bit of gagetry thinking they will make you a better photographer. It won't!

Really, when it all comes down to it, the only bit of modern systems that I would miss is the AF because of my eyes are not what they used to be
 
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Isn't this why "beginner' cameras exist. The ones with one dial, lots of help screens and full auto options. Sure, they are a pain to do manual mode with. But they are cheap, easy to use and their tiny size makes people more likely to have a camera with them.

There has been a trend to make photography easier as time goes on. High ISO then auto-iso plus high dynamic ranges means you don't have to worry about exposure. Automatic focus, more focus points and then auto eye detection sort out the focussing. Increasing frames per second means you don't have to time a critical moment, just pick the best of the 30 frames you took in a burst. Wide aperture lenses mean you can blur the background so you don't need to worry about it. You pay for it and it all makes the camera more complicated outside full auto modes. It does make technically adequate pictures a lot easier without developing difficult skills.
 
I suppose they are complicated but most of that complication is good thing as it's related to choices and customisation. Most of it can be avoided if that's what you want to do as you don't have to assign a use to custom buttons and you don't have to create a custom menu, you don't have to do a whole load of things.

If you want simple select green square mode and you're up and running. Even manual mode only requires a basic grasp of three related things and the ability to find the dial or button to change them.
 
If you use the basic functionality then most cameras are dead-easy. But there are introduced frustrations on account of some things that are (presumably) designed to make your life easier.

My biggest frustration with switching to my latest camera has been the fully-articulated screen in conjunction with 'tap to focus' feature. When folding the screen away, it's almost impossible not to touch it. When you touch it, it automatically assigns a focus point to the place it was touched. So next time you come to use it, the focus point is invariably in one of the corners.

I've not yet worked out how to turn off just the 'tap to focus' feature without turning off the entire functionality of the screen. But some of that is useful in the quick menu.

One solution is to turn the camera off before shutting the screen, the other option has been to learn where the button is to re-assign the focus point to the centre.
 
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