1D MK111 & !DS MK111 RECALL LINK

the undertaker said:
I only purchased mine in February, I have not had a great deal of opportunity to give full run out, it appears ok, and even using outer focus points, but as I have said, limited time etc means very little use YET. How will i know other wise if neeeded to send back?? I really dont fancy sending a virtually brand new camera back if I don't need to. Could anybody provide advice or process of elimination? Many thanks....
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I did not feel confident that I had enough data, from my own shooting, to assure myself that my camera was without fault. I did give it a quick run through with outer point AI servo last week (130 shots, give or take) and I did feel my results were worse than with centre point, but I know I was struggling a bit with accurate framing, so really not enough (reliable) data to be conclusive.

On that basis, mine is going in tomorrow because if Canon have a solid plan for testing and improving AF they may as well give it a go. That's far easier than me test shooting for weeks to try to come to some solid conclusion about the camera.

This is an expensive exercise for Canon and they must know something to make it so worthwhile to issue a "recall" of all 1D3 bodies sold to date. This is not an exercise to be undertaken on a whim.
 
Mines to be picked up today too, between 9am and 5pm

And whats the weather like, sunny with not a drop of wind.

Hope he's here soon
 
tdodd said:
This is an expensive exercise for Canon and they must know something to make it so worthwhile to issue a "recall" of all 1D3 bodies sold to date. This is not an exercise to be undertaken on a whim.
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Can't help wondering if they've known something for a while and just waited for the initial disgruntlement on the AF to die down a bit :cautious:
 
dod said:
Can't help wondering if they've known something for a while and just waited for the initial disgruntlement on the AF to die down a bit :cautious:
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I can't really see it that way myself. If the original disquiet had subsided I'd be inclined to let sleeping dogs lie, not stir up a hornets' nest all over again. If they thought they'd got away with things as they were up until a week ago then why create this bruhaha now?

Maybe it is a massive marketing placebo, because they aren't yet ready to bring a Nikon killer to market and need more time. I've got to say that Nikon is looking very strong at the moment and if I wasn't so heavily invested in Canon already I would have been all over a D3 instead of a 1D3. Given how long it took Canon to even accept that there was a problem the first time round maybe it really has taken this long to find the true silver bullet for MKIII focusing woes. Let's face it, whatever the reason, all we can do is speculate and really that is not terribly productive.

I can live without my camera for a few days, so if Canon believe they can make it better than it was I'm happy to let them. If it's all just marketing claptrap then, personally, I've not really lost anything. It's not an inconvenience to me to stay in for a courier, or to be without the camera. I appreciate that for other people it may be a very different story, but what can you do? At the end of the day you can either send your camera in or not.
 
dod said:
Can't help wondering if they've known something for a while and just waited for the initial disgruntlement on the AF to die down a bit :cautious:
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I suspect that may well be the case, Dod. Doubt we'll ever know.
 
tdodd's making a good point though, why take the chance of stirring it all up again :thinking:

I can't decide whether or not I'm going to send mine in or not to be honest. I think it's fine and I definitely need it next weekend. I think I'll wait to see what happens with the early guinea pigs :p
 
Im wondering if its taken them this long to re write the AF code to improve it enojugh to make it worthwhile recalling. We dont really know what they are replacing or fixing so wit the time its taken i would say its more a result of having to improve/test improve/test until its made a big enough difference to get peoples confidence back int he product. Pure speculation but the time delay does make me wonder if its correct !

I would rather be without the camera for a week now than later in the year when i will need it more and more ! Plus i still have the 50D to fall back on for a week ;)
 
dod said:
tdodd's making a good point though, why take the chance of stirring it all up again :thinking:
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Furthermore, if they really did have the "final" solution, how does it help to have Canon customers continuing to struggle on for months with sub-standard equipment while Nikon keeps getting it right, over and over again?

I'm not much of a fan of ludicrously high megapixel counts. I neither need them or want them, but I find it interesting that Nikon's D3X is now cheaper in the UK than Canon's virtually prehistoric 1Ds3. Canon really needs to wake up and start pulling rabbits out of hats, before it's too late.

Nikon_D3X_Body_graph.png
Canon_EOS_1DS_Mark_III_graph.png


The 5D2, with its own problems (black spots and banding), consumer grade AF, crippled video mode and limp-along frame rate is not the answer. Neither is letting the MK IIIs continue to struggle with questions remaining over AF performance.
 
I dont think its a case of pulling a rabbit out of a hat. Nikon have struggled for a few years to compete with Canon IMO. Now that they have made a few pretty damn good cameras everyone is all over how poor Canon are doing. Yes, they have had the problems with the mkIII and the 5dmkII but Nikon (until recently) werent producing a camera that was competing with these (Going back to the 5dmkI).

I think Canon do need to have a rethink before releasing the next range of upper-level DSLRs as they need to bring out a mkIV that will make people go "i made the right choice in staying" but i dont think it has to be " OMG this is the best camera that has ever been made!". It does however need to be one that will make people happy they didnt jump ship.

Mike
 
I agree Nikon used to be the ones struggling, which is why I bought into Canon when I started this malarky in June 2006. But since then I have seen Nikon making a massive comeback and Canon sitting on its laurels and holding back features, and cow-towing to marketing gimmicks instead of photographers' wishes while Nikon is dishing them out in spades.

Why does Nikon include pro spec AF in a crop body but not Canon? Why does Nikon include full weather sealing in a crop body but not Canon? Why does Canon give us 15MP in a 1.6X crop body while Nikon sensibly limits itself to 12MP in a 1.5X crop body? Why are EF-S lenses incompatible with larger format Canons? Why does the 5D2 not have gapless micro lenses, just like the 50D? Why are Canon's top of the line cameras still touting that ageing low res LCD screen and low res preview image? Why does Nikon include wireless flash control within its bodies, but not Canon?

Add these things together and Canon does have a fair bit of catching up to do. It's not technology especially. It's mindset. Canon's design solutions seem to me to be coming off the rails. Nikon just keeps on scoring goals. Canon keeps introducing the "wrong" new features to my mind. Video on the 5D2? Give me a break. 15MP in the 50D? No! Give me pro spec AF.

Why can't we have true raw histograms? Why can't we have an "Expose To The Right" exposure mode when shooting raw? If cameras now have AF microfocus adjustment for phase detect AF and also have contrast detect AF, why can't the cameras self calibrate by comparing their own focus results and need for adjustment. Lazy, lazy, lazy! Stop holding back on the goodies that photographers want.

What's AI Focus all about anyway? Take it off the menu. Why does a camera like the 50D have the basic zones at all? Why does the control layout have to differ completely from one camera range to the next? I've got a 30D, 40D, 50D and 1D3. Between them they have four different control layouts Why? For heaven's sake, Canon, try to think a bit about the cameras you design!
 
Absolute Morons

UPS have just turned up at the door to pick up my camera. I'm sorry sir, but I dont have the paperwork or labels, the driver in Cupar (9 miles away has them) As if I'm going to hand over £5000 of camera with no paperwork

Needless to say camera is still sitting here in its nice brown packing and UPS expecting me to take another day off for it to be collected.

Just phoned Canon, they are looking into it and phoning back.

Will keep you posted
 
From Nikon shooters you hear cries of 'why can't we have fast primes like Canon's below 150mm and an f4 range....'

From Canon shooters you hear cries of 'why can't we have bodies with all the features, great AF and more QC....'

I heard someone say the other day, 'Canon does it first, Nikon does it right'.
 
Phone call from Lauren at Canon.

She's just phoned UPS, did anyone know we dont get paperwork up here from UPS. . According to UPS I've to draft out a receipt and get driver to sign it. ????

The guy at the door said the driver in Cupar has all the paper work so someone is telling porkies and I dont think its Canon.

Another phone call from Lauren at Canon while I'm typing thing. UPS are going to phone me. This should be interesting. Watch this space
 
tdodd said:
I agree Nikon used to be the ones struggling, which is why I bought into Canon when I started this malarky in June 2006. But since then I have seen Nikon making a massive comeback and Canon sitting on its laurels and holding back features, and cow-towing to marketing gimmicks instead of photographers' wishes while Nikon is dishing them out in spades.

Why does Nikon include pro spec AF in a crop body but not Canon? Why does Nikon include full weather sealing in a crop body but not Canon? Why does Canon give us 15MP in a 1.6X crop body while Nikon sensibly limits itself to 12MP in a 1.5X crop body? Why are EF-S lenses incompatible with larger format Canons? Why does the 5D2 not have gapless micro lenses, just like the 50D? Why are Canon's top of the line cameras still touting that ageing low res LCD screen and low res preview image? Why does Nikon include wireless flash control within its bodies, but not Canon?

Add these things together and Canon does have a fair bit of catching up to do. It's not technology especially. It's mindset. Canon's design solutions seem to me to be coming off the rails. Nikon just keeps on scoring goals. Canon keeps introducing the "wrong" new features to my mind. Video on the 5D2? Give me a break. 15MP in the 50D? No! Give me pro spec AF.

Why can't we have true raw histograms? Why can't we have an "Expose To The Right" exposure mode when shooting raw? If cameras now have AF microfocus adjustment for phase detect AF and also have contrast detect AF, why can't the cameras self calibrate by comparing their own focus results and need for adjustment. Lazy, lazy, lazy! Stop holding back on the goodies that photographers want.

What's AI Focus all about anyway? Take it off the menu. Why does a camera like the 50D have the basic zones at all? Why does the control layout have to differ completely from one camera range to the next? I've got a 30D, 40D, 50D and 1D3. Between them they have four different control layouts Why? For heaven's sake, Canon, try to think a bit about the cameras you design!
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Tim, I agre with just about everything you have said, why they bring out a 5D mk2 with consumer af goodness only knows, unless they couldn't hold it back any longer and the new af isn't sorted yet
 
I did actually order a 5D2 back in December, and at a bl**dy good price too, but the more I read and learned the more I decided it was not the camera for me. Sure, I want full frame, but I don't want a 5D2. I cancelled that order and bought a 1D3 instead, thinking the AF troubles were behind us. Now look what happens. More trouble at t' mill.

A D3 would have been perfect, except my glass won't fit.
 
tdodd said:
I did actually order a 5D2 back in December, and at a bl**dy good price too, but the more I read and learned the more I decided it was not the camera for me. Sure, I want full frame, but I don't want a 5D2. I cancelled that order and bought a 1D3 instead, thinking the AF troubles were behind us. Now look what happens. More trouble at t' mill.

A D3 would have been perfect, except my glass won't fit.
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Tim, have you actually been unhappy with the Mk3 since you got it ? I only ask because mine seems ok, it misses some shots in particularly low contrast situations (which this fix is supposed to address) but other than that i have been very happy with it, and my serial number falls in the danger area for the original fix, and has been back for that fix too.

UPS have just been, so its off to Canon now, hopefully it will come back and ill be happier than ever with it :)
 
I must admit that the 5dmkII shocked me alot.
I thought they would have an improved AF, similar sensor to the 1dsmkII and not the mkIII and as for video...wtf!

I do think Canon have to think about their next camera alot. I think that there next non-1d FF camera will have an improved AF, but we wont see that for at least another 24 months.

The 1dmkIV would make me happy if it was a mkIII but had no AF problems, and a 12mp sensor. That for me would mean id never have to buy another camera again :LOL:
 
I have to ask, is there anyone on here unhappy with the AF on their 1D/s III and truly blame the camera?
 
I bet there are alot of people who blame the camera and not themselves... ;) :LOL:
It has kind of put me off buying a used 1dmkIII though unless i know its had the lastest fix

Mike
 
I love the camera and am doing the return purely as a precaution and free clean ;)

If they find a problem or replace something then hopefully I will see an improvement in keeper rate or quality of image from the camera..... Keeping an open mind....

That said reading some of the gripes, I think if I had felt like that I would have moved to the dark side and sod the expense (yes Tim, thinking of you ;) )
 
IanC_UK said:
Tim, have you actually been unhappy with the Mk3 since you got it ? I only ask because mine seems ok, it misses some shots in particularly low contrast situations (which this fix is supposed to address) but other than that i have been very happy with it, and my serial number falls in the danger area for the original fix, and has been back for that fix too.
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On the whole I would have to say I've been very happy with the 1D3, but, I have also been surprised on several occasions by missed focus during an AI servo sequence. I know 100% perfection is asking a lot but let's just say I like to think there is room for improvement. Most of my action shooting with the camera to date has been with the centre point only, often with expansion points enabled. Are the expansion points to be considered as "outer" focus points as far as this recall notice is concerned? I don't know. If they are, maybe that is why my keeper rate is not higher.

As I said earlier, when I specifically fired some test sequences with outer focus points my hit rate was lower than with the centre point. As I also said earlier, there really wasn't enough data in that sample to draw solid conclusions. My chosen subjects were too lively for me to do a good job of tracking them properly so the poor results there could well be down to me. As it was, I got the call from Canon before I had even had a chance to look at the results and there was strong encouragement from the rep to have me send the camera in, so that's what I am doing.

All in all I'm happy enough to be a Canon shooter. At the end of the day it is the glass that counts, as the long term investment, while bodies come and go. I certainly didn't have to buy a 1D3, but I chose to willingly. However, I was strongly under the impression, due to the relative hiatus about the AF, that it was well and truly sorted and there was no more to fear in buying the camera. It seems that impression may have been wrong. No biggy though; I'm sure Canon will sort it out.

I do remain frustrated, however, that my 50D has quite basic features that are missing from the 1D3. e.g. Why can't I AF at all in Live View? Is that not firmware fixable? Why can't we have high res preview images? Is that not firmware fixable? Why hasn't the 1D3 had a facelift yet, just to pop in the new VGA screen, for example? I guess the point here is that the design is now getting long in the tooth, yet Canon offers no better alternative. It's a bit of a Hobson's choice.
 
Pete W said:
That said reading some of the gripes, I think if I had felt like that I would have moved to the dark side and sod the expense (yes Tim, thinking of you ;) )
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Ha! Ha! And then next year Canon unleashes a real winner and it's all see-saw back again. No thanks. I'll stick with the glass and hope Canon wakes up and gets competitive again.
 
Tim
Glad to hear you actually like the 1D3 ;)

The trouble is when Canon do bring out a new 1D will there be a mad rush to buy it, or will people wait before parting with there hard earned. I was an early adopter of the 1D3 and am on my 3rd body. I will not be rushing to buy the new model (not that I won't want it) I just do not want to go through the ups and downs there have been with the 1D3.

I think Canon realise this hence make the 1D3 good before bringing out a new model.... try and regain some of the respect from the pro's then launch a new flagship. I reckon we will not see a new model till Q4 or Q1 of 2010.
 
To be honest I would have preferred to wait for a 1D3N or 1D4 but with the Yen doing what it has been against sterling I figured that when the new body came out it would be at a price well above the 1D3 price back in December. That, along with the additional EF glass I needed to go with it (four new lenses) forced my hand to strike when I did. My 1D3 cost me £2251 in December. With the way thing are I guessed that to wait for a 1D4 and the glass for it I would be paying £2k extra. So that's pretty much like getting the 1D3 for free and having the use of it today rather than in another year or 18 months, or whenever.
 
How come everyone else seems to have been contacted by Canon, yet I haven't yet? Boo. I want my camera AF working like a Nikon, ie correct and not muzzy.
 
I like everything about the mk3 apart from all the messing with AF settings for differant scenarios, I would have been happy with the 1dmk2 AF system in this camera, if it moves A1 servo if its still one shot simple as that no messing around.:D, collecting mine on friday along with my 300L
 
malla1962 said:
I like everything about the mk3 apart from all the messing with AF settings for differant scenarios, I would have been happy with the 1dmk2 AF system in this camera, if it moves A1 servo if its still one shot simple as that no messing around.:D, collecting mine on friday along with my 300L
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I take it they saw sense then and agreed to collect both together?
 
I've not arranged to have mine sent in but I'm looking forward to the feedback from those that are when they receive them back.
 
malla1962 said:
I like everything about the mk3 apart from all the messing with AF settings for differant scenarios, I would have been happy with the 1dmk2 AF system in this camera, if it moves A1 servo if its still one shot simple as that no messing around.:D, collecting mine on friday along with my 300L
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I never had the mk2 but came from 40D, I have been on experience seminars for intro to EOS and 2 day course for 1D, as far as I'm aware there is really only one shot or servo, which seems commonplace on Canon. Am I missing something???:thinking:
 
the undertaker said:
I never had the mk2 but came from 40D, I have been on experience seminars for intro to EOS and 2 day course for 1D, as far as I'm aware there is really only one shot or servo, which seems commonplace on Canon. Am I missing something???:thinking:
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There are several custom functions that alter the way AF works on the MK III cameras. They go far beyond a simple choice between AI Servo or One Shot. See here....

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos1dm3af/index.html

or

http://www.pressefotografforbundet.dk/fil/eos1dmk3_af_cfn_guide.pdf
 
the undertaker said:
I never had the mk2 but came from 40D, I have been on experience seminars for intro to EOS and 2 day course for 1D, as far as I'm aware there is really only one shot or servo, which seems commonplace on Canon. Am I missing something???:thinking:
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No you are not missing something I am! haw simple the mk2 is to set up.:D
 
A great read from start to finish and I hope everyone gets sorted either way. Having owned both a 1D Mark III then a D3 and a 5d Mark II, I reminded myself that to me Canon have slightly more subtlety in the way they render and image whilst the Nikons are very 'factual' and sharp. No right or wrong, but I suppose if you could have a machine like the D3 with Canon PQ then you would be looking at a dream machine.
 
I've just read a post on another forum where the user appears to have got his 1D3 back after the AF fix. There's nothing too technical in what he says but reports it as "but it's like a night and day difference with the camera".

We'll see!

Bob
 
Canon Bob said:
I've just read a post on another forum where the user appears to have got his 1D3 back after the AF fix. There's nothing too technical in what he says but reports it as "but it's like a night and day difference with the camera".

We'll see!

Bob
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You're getting us excited now, Bob, but if that's the case, don't you think Canon would have made more of it?:shrug::shrug:
Do we actually know what is involved?

George
 
erding said:
That's better than a wing and a prayer :D
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The prayer had to be removed to avoid offending minority religous groups.

Again, from another forum....the poster gives the following from his returned worksheet

Replaced;
1. Screw CB400381
2. Washer XD1-1102-123
3. ISU Washer XD1-1102-323
Updated the firmware, calibrated the AF then lubricated and cleaned

(This was from the Canon New Jersey facility)

Bob
 
Canon Bob said:
The prayer had to be removed to avoid offending minority religous groups.

Again, from another forum....the poster gives the following from his returned worksheet

Replaced;
1. Screw CB400381
2. Washer XD1-1102-123
3. ISU Washer XD1-1102-323
Updated the firmware, calibrated the AF then lubricated and cleaned

(This was from the Canon New Jersey facility)

Bob
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It still seems surprising to me that Canon is not saying any more about the whys and wherefores of this.
It seems as though some of our ex colonial cousins have had improved results (I did a trawl around some other sites during last night's period of insomnia and Bob's comments) but I think I'll wait to hear the considered opinions of some TP members.
Mine won't go in until mid April, and I suspect there will be some hard facts available by then.
George
 
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