Beginner How to start reading photos to make good critiques?

Have a go at critique

I've posted an image - say what you think, you will not upset me,

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Tokyo_Subway

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think Technical Subject matter Processing Should I have taken it The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated - no ajustments apart from a very slight crop Nikon D750 +...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
 
BillN_33 said:
Have a go at critique

I've posted an image - say what you think, you will not upset me,

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Tokyo_Subway

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think Technical Subject matter Processing Should I have taken it The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated - no ajustments apart from a very slight crop Nikon D750 +...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
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I’ve jumped straight into commenting at your picture :p
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Well it doesn’t have to be critique it can be simply sharing our thoughts with a fellow photographer. The most important thing is to give honest feedback and suggest ways to improve.
The only problem i see with critique is when it’s only about one picture.
One picture doesn’t really give much info about the style of the photographer or what he/she is trying to achieve.
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I find the best way to improve(because that’s what this thread is about I assume , to receive criticism and get better)is to make a decision about what our favourite subject is and then the next more important step is to be consistent with the work we produce.
I find the best photographers are the ones who realised what their favourite subject is and put all their effort to produce as much work as possible.
 
BillN_33 said:
Have a go at critique

I've posted an image - say what you think, you will not upset me,

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Tokyo_Subway

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think Technical Subject matter Processing Should I have taken it The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated - no ajustments apart from a very slight crop Nikon D750 +...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
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Aside from some framing suggestions made by others, you caught an excellent moment. The guy slumped over his shopping bags is very funny. I'd have been very happy to have taken that shot. Good choice with the black and white too.
 
BillN_33 said:
Have a go at critique

I've posted an image - say what you think, you will not upset me,

www.talkphotography.co.uk

Tokyo_Subway

One to critique - you can be as harsh as you want, no problem for me - don't ask me any questions, just say what you think Technical Subject matter Processing Should I have taken it The image is SOOC - but a colour image desaturated - no ajustments apart from a very slight crop Nikon D750 +...
www.talkphotography.co.uk www.talkphotography.co.uk
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I'll take a look when I'm not on the phone.
 
Marino said:
I find the best photographers are the ones who realised what their favourite subject is and put all their effort to produce as much work as possible.
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Don't you mean that the pictures which you like come from photographers who specialise?

If you really mean the best photographers, how do you define "best"? (and before anyone starts, I really am asking the question to understand how people apply a qualitative adjective to art).
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Don't you mean that the pictures which you like come from photographers who specialise?

If you really mean the best photographers, how do you define "best"? (and before anyone starts, I really am asking the question to understand how people apply a qualitative adjective to art).
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Best as in producing outstanding work. Going with your 'art is all subjective', some people might not like Jurassic Park or E.T. Nevertheless, Steven Spielberg is recognised as an outstanding director and one of the best in the movie industry. Some people might not like the music of Mozart or Beethoven but they're recognised as outstanding composers and some of the best composers that ever lived. It's the same with photography.
 
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Gav. said:
People have mentioned there's little crit' here, a lot of images are in crit' sub-forums, if you think that something could be 'improved', even if no one is asking, may be try starting the conversation on the image..?

Some people do :dummy:so I can see why it's dropped... some offer 'crit' and never show their own work too..

But... I've learnt loads here from people 'bashing' and talking about my images!
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I think a lot of it has to do with how the feedback is taken/accepted... some just do not want to hear it or care. Often I do not comment for that reason...

I do think critique tends to focus on technical aspects... that's easier, and less opinion based. It's also possibly the least important aspect of an image; but there are some types of images that I would consider to be primarily technical (e.g. high magnification macro).

And I think one has to be comfortable/confident enough to accept critique for what it is... primarily opinion. Some opinions have more experience, education, knowledge behind them than some others do; but that doesn't change the fact that it is still just an opinion.
 
Merlin5 said:
Lol, unbelievable. :facepalm: I've never come across anyone who so strongly believes and defends that there are no standards, it's all subjective. By the way, you ignored part of an earlier post of mine where I quoted one of the world's best known street photographers who is famous for having said "99% of street photography is failure." But in your world there's no good or bad, so presumably there's no failure and he must be wrong.

Ed Sutton made a very good point in response to you saying there's no good or bad:

"That attitude promotes a race to the bottom where nobody strives to improve, because what they already make is good enough for them. Of course if an individual is happy carrying on that way that's fine. If everyone acts in that way then culture is f***ed."
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While I want to agree; I can't quite.

I firmly feel that there is good photography, and there is crap... and everything in between. But I also do not think that I understand "art" particularly well. There is a lot of "street photography" that seems like nothing more than snapshots to me... and that includes some of the more recognized street photographers/documentarians.

So if someone disagrees with me about their photo; that's fine. And *IF* they can actually articulate a reason for their choices I might even agree; at least I can try to understand. But if it's just "that's what it was/is;" not so much... that's a snapshot and you just don't care.
 
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is "street" photography the area that causes the most active, too and fro, debate?
 
sk66 said:
I do think critique tends to focus on technical aspects... that's easier, and less opinion based. It's also possibly the least important aspect of an image; but there are some types of images that I would consider to be primarily technical (e.g. high magnification macro).
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At risk of being repetitive, technical crit is often given if the photo isn't interesting, and also technically weak. Dull, technically accomplished pictures tend to collect least comments because there's nothing going on, but it's also hard to point out what could be better ('almost everything' doesn't help the poster).

While it's not something reliably measurable, the mark of a good photographer is that they can take something dull and make it interesting, while a poor one will make an interesting scene dull. So in some ways, getting likes IS a metric one can use, because if almost everyone finds the picture dull then there will be no response at all.
 
BillN_33 said:
is "street" photography the area that causes the most active, too and fro, debate?
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It causes most angst, hence the expression ‘street police’ dictating what is lawfully ‘street’ and what isn’t. It’s very different from conventional’ landscape, motorsport etc where the parameters are more set, understood and agreed (IMO).
 
ancient_mariner said:
While it's not something reliably measurable, the mark of a good photographer is that they can take something dull and make it interesting,
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Hmm, I'd like to see that...

But I do agree with the second part of the sentence; A poor photographer can make an interesting scene dull, and an average photographer may fail to find the potential that exists in a scene. In that context I may be more average than not... I'm really more of a technician with a lot of experience in a lot of areas; but not a particularly great/good "artist."
 
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sk66 said:
and an average photographer may fail to find the potential that exists in a scene.
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That’s a very interesting comment.
 
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sk66 said:
Hmm, I'd like to see that...

But I do agree with the second part of the sentence; A poor photographer can make an interesting scene dull, and an average photographer may fail to find the potential that exists in a scene. In that context I may be more average than not... I'm really more of a technician with a lot of experience in a lot of areas; but not a particularly great/good artist.
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You're pretty darn good with wildlife!
 
ancient_mariner said:
the mark of a good photographer is that they can take something dull and make it interesting,
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That's exactly right. Good street photographers make something interesting out of the mundane. Interesting as in positioning, angles, juxtapositions, thought provoking, surreal, abstract.
 
gramps said:
It causes most angst, hence the expression ‘street police’ dictating what is lawfully ‘street’ and what isn’t. It’s very different from conventional’ landscape, motorsport etc where the parameters are more set, understood and agreed (IMO).
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Yeah, it seems to be the primary area where a snapshot taken with very little care/thought can be considered a "meaningful commentary," whereas in most other genres a snapshot is just a crap photo (but it still may be worth taking for personal reasons).
 
BillN_33 said:
is "street" photography the area that causes the most active, too and fro, debate?
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I think all genres probably have such too-ing and fro-ing, it's just we're in the street section here and just at this moment in time we're having a rare non-gear related discussion. I bet once every few years in the landscape corner of the forum, or the wedding section, or the wildlife field there are probably similar debates.

I do agree with you, Bill, when you said:

sk66 said:
There is a lot of "street photography" that seems like nothing more than snapshots to me... and that includes some of the more recognized street photographers/documentarians.
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I've been watching a few videos today from what's been mentioned as being one of the better Street channels on YT. The comments on these videos would back up this opinion. Reading those comments before watching the videos I felt like I was about to be witness to some of the greatest photography ever, and some of the most valuable learning... then the video starts and many of the images are (to me) greatly disappointing. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I do think getting one great street photo a month is really difficult so to expect lots on a single filmed session is probably a bit like expecting England to score ten goals in the first half.

I also don't mind admitting there are plenty of Cartier-Bresson images that leave me a little unimpressed. Hell, there are even some Saul Leiter images I don't get. So what do I know?

Anyway, I think that the "greats" are great and produce better photos because of the effort they put in. If you're out ten hours a day, six days a week, travelling to major cities in all sorts of weather, then logic would determine you're going to get more better shots than someone who goes out for two hours on a sunny afternoon once every month in a small town. Street shots, anyway. I'm sure there are other genres in which the irregular small town shooter would have the advantage. I just need to find out what it is!

Derek
 
delb0y said:
I think all genres probably have such too-ing and fro-ing, it's just we're in the street section here and just at this moment in time we're having a rare non-gear related discussion. I bet once every few years in the landscape corner of the forum, or the wedding section, or the wildlife field there are probably similar debates.

I do agree with you, Bill, when you said:



I've been watching a few videos today from what's been mentioned as being one of the better Street channels on YT. The comments on these videos would back up this opinion. Reading those comments before watching the videos I felt like I was about to be witness to some of the greatest photography ever, and some of the most valuable learning... then the video starts and many of the images are (to me) greatly disappointing. Maybe I'm expecting too much. I do think getting one great street photo a month is really difficult so to expect lots on a single filmed session is probably a bit like expecting England to score ten goals in the first half.

I also don't mind admitting there are plenty of Cartier-Bresson images that leave me a little unimpressed. Hell, there are even some Saul Leiter images I don't get. So what do I know?

Anyway, I think that the "greats" are great and produce better photos because of the effort they put in. If you're out ten hours a day, six days a week, travelling to major cities in all sorts of weather, then logic would determine you're going to get more better shots than someone who goes out for two hours on a sunny afternoon once every month in a small town. Street shots, anyway. I'm sure there are other genres in which the irregular small town shooter would have the advantage. I just need to find out what it is!

Derek
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wildlife, particularly birds was terrible, but we won't go there
 
delb0y said:
If you're out ten hours a day, six days a week, travelling to major cities in all sorts of weather, then logic would determine you're going to get more better shots than someone who goes out for two hours on a sunny afternoon once every month in a small town.
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Actually, I think "better shots" is true; but probably not the "more."

There are many days where I'm out for hours and I take no images... or I take a few but they are not keepers to be edited/shared. And that's true of most genres... high level landscape photography is very time consuming as well.
 
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Two words that I have heard in relation to street photography are 'interesting' and 'unusual'. A large amount of street stuff is neither (in my opinion - including loads I take!) I rarely get out to do street, but when I do I'm grateful if I even only get one good shot!
 
delb0y said:
I felt like I was about to be witness to some of the greatest photography ever, and some of the most valuable learning... then the video starts and many of the images are (to me) greatly disappointing.
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There is a lot of dross out there, people raising their count/profile for sponsorship and selling workshops, zines & presets.
I find many of the POV videos quite encouraging ... they show that they can't manufacture what they are going to find on their street-walks any more than I can!
Some of the technique/attitude/composition type videos can be very useful though.
 
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Some really good, IMHO, B & W images are posted on the (Leica) FaceBook groups
 
Merlin5 said:
Couple of examples. Mundane turned into theatre.
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I would say that the photographers found the interest that existed... it's not hard to realize that there is potential in a sea of red hats; i.e. it's not "a dull scene"...
It could even be argued that they might not have maximize the potential; in my mind that scene is begging to be taken from overhead.

At least in the first image they waited until there was a lot going on... but I don't really get the point; I'm not sure what it is trying to communicate.
 
sk66 said:
Yeah, it seems to be the primary area where a snapshot taken with very little care/thought can be considered a "meaningful commentary," whereas in most other genres a snapshot is just a crap photo (but it still may be worth taking for personal reasons).
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That, for me, brings up two points, which I think don't receive sufficient consideration.

The first is "the snapshot", which is one of the areas that deliniates photography from other graphic arts. There have only been a very few graphic artists who have captured the reality of life on a canvass. Edward Hopper's "Nighthawks" is one such exception. Yet there are photographers doing just that, every day. To me, therefor, calling a picture a snapshot is not, despite how it is often meant, a disapprobation.

The second is that every picture of people and animals captures a moment in time, A moment that is unique. To describe something as "a crap photo" is to tell us about the speaker but not about the image, because many others may find something wonderful in that same picture.
 
gramps said:
... what they are going to find on their street-walks any more than I can!
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Do you ever get down the Cheltenham Road / Gloucester Road, Gramps? I was down there yesterday, although I was on my motorbike rather than to take pictures. It struck me that it was a wonderful area for street photography,and I've resolved to head back down there one day for just that reason.
 
delb0y said:
Do you ever get down the Cheltenham Road / Gloucester Road, Gramps? I was down there yesterday, although I was on my motorbike rather than to take pictures. It struck me that it was a wonderful area for street photography,and I've resolved to head back down there one day for just that reason.
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I have done from time to time but parking can be a pain so I tend to park & ride or use a central spot that is cheap and stay centrally. I should use my card to get about on the bus a bit more.
 
sk66 said:
I would say that the photographers found the interest that existed... it's not hard to realize that there is potential in a sea of red hats; i.e. it's not "a dull scene"...
It could even be argued that they might not have maximize the potential; in my mind that scene is begging to be taken from overhead.

At least in the first image they waited until there was a lot going on... but I don't really get the point; I'm not sure what it is trying to communicate.
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There's a lot more going on than just the red hats. Hands in various positions, many of them holding their hats, a woman front left with face half in shadow, a man to the right covering his face and the person at the very front with his head bowed. It's visually pleasing and looks almost choreographed. In my opinion he pressed the shutter at just the right moment. First image looks choreographed too but it's not. We see many little things going on. But these kind of pictures don't speak to everyone and one either gets them or not. Personally, I love them and they're extremely difficult to capture well.
 
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Pound Coin said:
Two words that I have heard in relation to street photography are 'interesting' and 'unusual'. A large amount of street stuff is neither (in my opinion - including loads I take!) I rarely get out to do street, but when I do I'm grateful if I even only get one good shot!
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This - personal opinion.. but yeah most street photography is shockingly bad - I'm not sure if photographers into other genres are better at curating their work or if street photographers have this idea that boring pictures of interesting places and boring moments are good - and yes, I've taken my fair share ;)
 
Ed Sutton said:
It's a one-liner cliché of 'street' to combine foreground and background in an 'amusing' way. Using a cloud goes back at least as far as this - https://collections.artsmia.org/art/20014/house-lee-friedlander
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Most things have been done before but it's still an interesting photo and not easy to do. Look at her hair and the veil perfectly moving and lifted at just the right moment in just the right spot. Most people doing street tend not to think outside the box so looking for something like that wouldn't occur to them. But it's another example of making something interesting out of the ordinary.
 
gramps said:
True, and in my case it’s often being 30 secs too late to get to the spot!
I’ve lost count of the number of “if only” occasions. :facepalm:
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Yep, it's disappointing. Happens to me a lot too!
 
Merlin5 said:
Most things have been done before but it's still an interesting photo and not easy to do.
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Of course most things have been done already, but being hard to do doesn't make a photo good. It's an OK pic for me, but it's still a one-liner that I'll have forgotten about in a week. Maybe someone who hasn't seen that trick pulled off before would remember it forever though.

Not that it matters to me any longer. Andrew has convinced me that there is no good or bad photography it's all meh! :LOL:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The second is that every picture of people and animals captures a moment in time, A moment that is unique. To describe something as "a crap photo" is to tell us about the speaker but not about the image, because many others may find something wonderful in that same picture.
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IMO, that comes down to "intent." It's not really about what someone else may or may not get from the image; a lot of that is out of your control. It's about what you intended for the viewer to get from the image... what it is "saying" that you are trying to communicate, what exactly are you trying to show/tell me... And how well it accomplishes that goal largely determines how "successful" the image is.

If the photographer has no intent, then the images serves no purpose and there is no point to it.
 
Merlin5 said:
How about this one?

https://flic.kr/p/2pPp3K1
View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ngravity/53701270318/in/pool-2768749@N20/
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That does nothing for me... I do not find it interesting nor thought provoking/compelling. I also do not think it is a particularly difficult picture to take; especially with flash.

Now, if the veil had been cut loose and was blowing away that could say something... I.e. whatever the veil represents (e.g. marriage) and leaving/loss/separation (child to adult, etc). It would also be a more difficult image to make...
 
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