Picked up my new camera today....a GF1

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BrianT said:
No Graham there is nothing wrong in that. In fact nobody can fault you but it rather limits any advice that can be offered other than " Go for it". :)

Woof I quite agree but



my answers were based on the posters information re his level of photographic expertise. And a Canon G11 will certainly blow his Ixus output into the tall grass, for little outlay.

The GF1 is a fairly expensive system to buy into and nobody would pretend that it has the versatility of the DSLR. However many of us are prepared to put up with the restrictions, we reckon the benifits are more important. But I think that most buying these Micro 4/3 cameras have been around the block a few times, for the beginner? I'm not sure. If the OP had asked for advice re moving on from his Ixus I reckon most of us would have advised a budget DSLR with a kit lens..............very few would have suggested a GF1.

But what do I know, I'm already thinking of kicking the GF1 into touch for the EP2.

Just had another thought. Oh no I hear them cry! Seriously, surely the Panasonic 20mm lens mounted on the EP2 becomes IS! Clever old Olympus. :)

Brian.
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Thanks for the input Brian, much appreciated. I've certainly got a lot to think over.

What would you suggest are the advantages of something like the G11 over the GF1 - mainly that it would be better value for the likely use I would get out of it?

I suppose it's mainly that I just haven't seen images that inspire me as much from other cameras. Maybe you should sell me yours? :)
 
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Graham your welcome. I take the " Devil's Advocate " approach to your type of question. It is all to easy to give positive views because in a way they are merely backing one's own decisions. It's an approach which might not make many friends but there we are.........In truth I did vow that I would never again answer such questions but Oh well. I also make a point of only passing opinions on cameras I have owned, no, my Canon was an earlier model but a mighty capable tool, except the electronic steps on the zoom lens drove me frantic. But as Woof says keep the ISO turned down and certainly A3 prints no problem.

For someone getting into photography I believe the Canon ( and perhaps some others) does represent a good basic step in the right direction in one very affordable package.

I am sure that a quality compact would give Graham a lot of fun and would provide a great great way of aquiring the knowledge that would mean he could make an informed decision re his next move.

I must repeat I think the GF1 is very much a niche market camera primarily intended as a quality back up for the higher end DSLR or for the aged and infim such as me.

Brian.
 
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"I must repeat I think the GF1 is very much a niche market camera primarily intended as a quality back up for the higher end DSLR or for the aged and infim such as me."

I'd agree with that and add that for me together with the Pen it's probably the first (things like the LX2 / 3 get close) quality sub SLR sized camera. Something that gives comparable quality to a DSLR just like my Bessa gives comparable quality to my SLR.
 
surely the Panasonic 20mm lens mounted on the EP2 becomes IS! Clever old Olympus.
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From bits I've read around the journals of the world, that seems to be a marriage made in heaven for some folks. Well with an EP1 at any rate.

It would seem for the gain of IS, the price you pay with the Oly is a blink or two lag on the focusing and another on shutter response.

It does look like a lovely little thing though doesn't it.
 
woof woof said:
"I must repeat I think the GF1 is very much a niche market camera primarily intended as a quality back up for the higher end DSLR or for the aged and infim such as me."

I'd agree with that and add that for me together with the Pen it's probably the first (things like the LX2 / 3 get close) quality sub SLR sized camera. Something that gives comparable quality to a DSLR just like my Bessa gives comparable quality to my SLR.
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I think there's a larger market for the Compact MFT cameras. I see plenty people with low end DSLRs around town with very lettle idea about how to use them. It seems to me that they're not getting the most out of a DSLR and certainly not the systems they've bought into, and for these people the Compact MFT bodies would be a far better choice.
 
I think the Pasnasdonic is staying. I have just found out that the new Olympus EP2 comes with an EVF so just as well stick with the Panasonic.

As for lenses it looks like the Olympus f2 zoom as an all round lens might foot the bill or the Panasonic 7-18mm I'm not that bothered about longer lenses and if push comes to shove we can always play the " Meccano" get out card.

Re the Olly lens I don't mind foregoing the IS I find the GF1 is as good as an M3 in respect of handholding ,

Brian.
 
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So are you saying MFT cameras come with brain implants? If so I must have mader trhe right choice,,,,,,still a3ewaiting results though. And Barney I am sure the inexperience is not restricted to lower end of the DSLR world,



Must say I've ever noticed it, tend to walk on the other side of the road if a photographer hoves into view.

Brian
 
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BrianT said:
So are you saying MFT cameras come with brain implants? If so I must have mader trhe right choice,,,,,,still a3ewaiting results though. And Barney I am sure the inexperience is not restricted to lower end of the DSLR world,
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Of course, but I feel the lower end may actually heed some advice. The high know it all of course.

Must say I've ever noticed it, tend to walk on the other side of the road if a photographer hoves into view.
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Oh I'm far too nosey not to notice!
 
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"The high know it all of course"

Maybe they do, but just don't tell them when there's dirt on their sensor as they'll look at you as if you've just set fire to their manhood.
 
I suppose it's mainly that I just haven't seen images that inspire me as much from other cameras.
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Here beginith the first lesson.

Graham, cameras are mere tools, photographers take pictures.(y)

There are millions of very competant cameras.............pity the majority of photographers are just not capable of exploiting that fact.

Brian.
 
Damn it these GF1's look good. I've currently got a 5D II and a Panasonic TZ7 as a point & shoot. Whilst the Panny is very compact and versatile, which my wife loves, it is woefully lacking in manual options (I knew that when we bought it of course). We use it most of the time when I can't take the 5D II, but the IQ isn't amazing (fairly horrible over ISO200 for anything bigger than 7" x 5" printed - but then I am spoilt with the 5D II's noise handling).

Help me justify selling some kit to get a GF1 please....! (Most, if not all, of my DSLR kit/lenses has to stay though!)

Would probably be looking at the GF1 & 20mm 1.7 lens as at least then it is still reasonably compact. I can just see my wife's reaction though - "where's the zoom button gone?"

I see they are £629 at Mathers - is this the cheapest in the UK? That would mean about £400+ to upgrade if I sold the TZ7 alone - eeeek :thinking:
 
I've finally got around to updating the firmware on my GF-1. I must that being able to zoom in for manual focusing by press the rear dial makes using my Nikkor 45mm AF-P much easier. I really must start using it for portraiture and see how I get on.
 
Tried to get a EVF in Leeds today. Result?

Jessopd blank look....................I should have known better.

Jacobs. Sorry special order £206 !!!!!!!!!!!!and you must pay up front. Me " But I don't even know if I will like it" " Well its the same as the G!" says the salesman. " Are you sure about that" I ask " Well it should be it's Panasonic" Oh dear, where do they get em from ...........the 40mm Voigtlander is growing more and more desirable.

Picture013.jpg


Maybe I've now realised why I kept these. :)

Brian.
 
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I've pretty much convinced myself I want one too, but not at rip off Britain more in £ than the Yanks pay in $ prices. :shake:
 
Looking at a lot of USA web stores they are all out of stock(y) and 900 usd is about the same as here:crying:

This is just another camera thats fits a new nich in the market - we all like to think we would take our camera everywhere - you will convince yourself it will be great with the 20mm - but you will want more reach and wider and faster glass - then an additional flash and it has been said! before you know it:thinking: you will have a DSLR system and a GF1 system(y):LOL:

That isn't a bad thing I suppose:bonk:

I must admit I fancy one with a 20mm - O NO......................:|
 
I think with these cameras there are two choices. Although repeating myself again I would strongly advise anyone to think long and hard. As a point and shoot lens with the 20mm the GF1 is only let down by the viewfinder, clip a Voigtlander 40mm in place and away you go. Hard to beat as a travel/candid tool.

If you need a more all round camera in this format the G1, especially if you want to play with legacy lenses. I tried a G1 this afternoon and was surprised how bright and clear the finder was.

If only Panasonic would decide the market place for the GF1 and produce the viewfinder/ lenses needed then it would be in my mind be a great camera. However with accountants and marketing types ruling the roost I can see it languishing in a half developed state until the next craze takes over. And let's not forget it is certainly not a cheap option. As a quality back up it's ideal but as a main camera only for the very few. A great improvement would be to chuck the silly flash out and get rid of the video thing, then perhaps they could at least squeeze in an optical finder to match the 20mm.

So why did I buy one? Simply I had given up photography because of the awful DSLR cameras, the GF! even in it's simplest form can fulfil my photographic aspirations.. Yes I would like and would certainly avail myself of any further developments but I aint holding my breath.

Would I recommend others to buy one? Only if they were sitting in my chair.

Would I buy it again? Yes, for me it's fun, and fun is all I seek from photography. However I would take a long hard look at the EP1 at least it has a built in optical finder for the standard lens.. It also has a far better range of lenses all with IS.

In fact if size does matter than the Micro 4/3 is the way to go but don't dismiss the G!. If size doesn't matter cameras such as the D90 are around for no more than a GF1 with finder, add an adapter and whoops.

It's a funny camera, sometimes I love it other times I loath it. But the thing that really annoys me is that it is an unfinished product which is very unlikely ever to be developed to it's full potential. I wouldn't be surprised if the next announcement will be a full frame version, or at least APS ( or whatever you call it

Brian
 
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"Looking at a lot of USA web stores they are all out of stock and 900 usd is about the same as here."

Is this the EVF? I was thinking about getting an optical one and it's those that are cheaper in $ than we pay in £. I'll probably get one sooner or later even though I'm tight!

Brian, the EP1 doesn't have a built in viewfinder does it? My niece has one and she has a view finder on the hot show. Unlike you Brian I actually like the flash and although a built in optical viewfinder would be wonderful I'll settle for one on the hot shoe.

My DSLR is still my preferred choice. I went walking up the hills on Saturday and I took it as I was going by myself and specifically to enjoy the walk, the countryside and my photography. If it's not a special and dedicated photography day out though I take my LX2 or GF1 depending upon circumstance.

I think that even though neither the GF1 or Pen are perfect they're pretty exciting first generation products and that as a camera development MFT ranks pretty high.

Who knows what the future will bring but at the moment this'll do nicely. (y):love::clap:
 
BrianT said:
If only Panasonic would decide the market place for the GF1 and produce the viewfinder/ lenses needed then it would be in my mind be a great camera. However with accountants and marketing types ruling the roost I can see it languishing in a half developed state until the next craze takes over. And let's not forget it is certainly not a cheap option. As a quality back up it's ideal but as a main camera only for the very few. A great improvement would be to chuck the silly flash out and get rid of the video thing, then perhaps they could at least squeeze in an optical finder to match the 20mm.

But the thing that really annoys me is that it is an unfinished product which is very unlikely ever to be developed to it's full potential. I wouldn't be surprised if the next announcement will be a full frame version, or at least APS ( or whatever you call it
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Brian, the built in optical finder is never going to happen, there simply isn't room on the body for a decent one, and if it's not a decent one (a la Canon's G11) it's not worth having.

I think that you underestimate the potential market for these cameras and I think that both Panasonic and Olympus have stolen a march on the competition while finally finding the right use for the four/thirds sensor which was never going to cut it with the big boys in the DSLR world.

You're not wrong in seeing larger sensor coming out - just look at the Leica X1 and the Samsung NX10, but the Leica is a fixed lens camera and Samsung, I think, have missed the point while at the same time alienating all their previous customers (would you buy into a Samsung system now afetr they turned their back on the prev ious one so quickly?)

The thing is, increased sensor size is a red herring on this type of camera. I've images from the GF1 on a 60" plasma display and wa sblown away by the quality. You simply do not need any more quality from this type of camera and the only reaosn to go for a bigger sensor would be in pursuit of shallower depth of field at a given aperture.

I don;t think that this is an unfinished product, but then my needs and wants are different to yours. I'm prepared to compromise on the lack of built in optical finder, and will look to buy a hot shoe mounted one shortly. (I think another pint in Whitelocks is on order, especially if you were to bring down a 40mm finder for me to try out ;) ) You don't want video, but it's one of the reasons I bought the GF1. The flash I'm neither here nor there with, having not been able to master the settings yet I'm undecided. I would like IS in the body, but then it's not really required with the 20mm and it's in the 45mm f:2.8 if I really really wanted it.

The main thing though, is that the GF1 has ignited your interest in photography, and for that reason alone we should raise a glass or three.
 
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As this seems to be the general GF-1 area, I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions.

I'm after an alternative to the strap which comes with the camera. For 99% of the time the camera lives in my pocket and the strap is wrapped around the camera. I am looking for something smaller, like maybe a wrist strap - just for some added security carrying the camera in my hand, that doesn't create a lot of bulk when in my pocket.

Any thoughts?
 
:razz:I'll drink to that Barney, I reckon another Yorkshire Summit is needed :)

Re sensors. I know and I know that you know and you know that I know ( Apology to George Bush) that full frame sensors are little more than bait for the " Got to have brigade" Quality of the image isn't the yardstick here it's the " bigger is better and if it's better it'll make me a better photographer" type fuelled by media hype. Bye the way. What's your excuse ( D3)?

It's almost the same as " I want medium format because I'm a Serious photographer" and if I get the missus to carry a tripod I shall be Really Serious
Re the market, I don't know obviously but since the introduction of the single lens reflex the high end quality viefinder/rangefinder market has shrunk over the years. From the demise of Zeiss the rangefinder market was dominated by Leitz with a dwindling market share which has meant that this great company has spent most of it's time teetering on the verge of being bankrupt. Yes more recently others have tried the water to a lesser extent,Contax and Cosina for two examples with film camera and the latter with a brave attempt at a full blown digital range finder. But look what happened to that brave attempt, tiny market, not worth continuing, pull the plug. Yep, I can see a rush into the Micro 4/3 market then such a dwindling that the format will disappear into the sunset. O.K. Leica seem to be doing well in their terms, but the American Dentist market is very limited. In fact I read the other day that one afternoons output from Canon was more than the annual production from Solms, and I think that was a Friday.

Like most things the whole thing is dominated by market forces, market forces brainwashed with hype. The average guy ( note I don't include women) requires complications, it makes them feel superior. You mention IS, all my life I have lived without it, 20th sec, no problem with a Leica nor with a GF1 and of course with the Leica I'm talking here 200ASA not the 1200/ 1600 ISO of your D3, and historically I have always been a low light snapper. You say one reason you bought the GF1 was the video, fine but for me the fewer gimmicks the better. Yes strip it down to the basics none of my Leicas have an LCD......chuck it, come on lets advance the " Less is More" cause rather then the " must have brigade".

One thing Panasonic could do would provide click stops on their zoom lenses at appropriate interval then provide reasonably priced clip on viewfindesr to match, Oh and a 10mm f1.7 prime. The lens migh be a dream but for me the rest would stop me biting my nails.

Almost as an aside. The best digital camera I have ever used apart from size was the Sony RD1. This camera with a APC sensor and fabulous Zeiss Vario Sonnar was the closest thing to a £20,000 Hasselblad digital, I kid you not, in fact with the LCD flipped over on top of the body it even felt like a Hasselblad 500Cm, or more accurately the 500CM which they should have made.........and I paid £325 new in Jessops because they just didn't sell. Some of the best digital output I have everseen was from my Digilux 2, but £1200 for a 5Mp bridge camera? Not much of a market here.

As for re-awakening my interest yes it has. In fact yesterday in a pub ( where else) I decided to take a snap, great, took the lens cap off,switched on, raised the camera and noticed...."no memory card in camera". Oh well never mind, it was sitting in it's little slot in the TV Blow it I said quietly..:razz: But of course the snap was a masterpiece in fishermans terms.

Now see what you've done.....I've worked up a thirst and I'm not half finished.:clap:

Brian.

P.S. Is anyone still awake ?:bonk:
 
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Maybe I misread, but I don't think we'll see an APS-C/DX or full frame size sensor in a four thirds or micro four thirds body because, by definition, the sensor size in those systems is fixed to be smaller than that. There would definitely be advantages though - depth of field and noise control (for a given number of pixels) for two, but you can't have it all.

The main things I'd like to see now are some more fast primes, and a better resolution EVF. I have the current EVF, and actually really like it, although I'd never be able to use it with manual focus lenses as the res just doesn't seem high enough to me to be able to judge focus accurately enough. Not that I have any manual focus lenses anyway, but higher res would be nice providing the size didn't get too much bigger than it is now.

As an aside - here's a random question: when I have the camera set to take jpg and raw files simultaneously, and then I import to Lightroom, only the raw is imported even if the 'don't import suspected duplicates is unchecked' - perhaps I've done something else odd. Anyone else noticed this? Relatively easy to work around, but I'd like LR to get it right first time.
 
Still considering what to do about a GF1. Occasionally we use the video on our TZ7 - it is actually quite good, with fast, continuous AF and half decent stereo sound (none of the horrible hissing from the TZ5). OK, it blows out the highlights occasionally, but it is certainly usable - and better than not having it.

How is the video on the GF1 ? I appreciate most of you may not use it, it wouldn't be my main reason for buying it either - but I have a few questions about it nonetheless.

1. Sound quality - I believe it's mono only. Any hissing? Does it pick up any noises made by the 20mm lens (such as focussing) ?

2. Focussing. Does it AF automatically (centre point/area) or do you have to half press the shutter? If you move to another subject, i.e. pan around and need to focus on something in a different focal plane, how would you focus on it? Half press again? I guess there is no sort of continuous AF?

I must emphasise that I'd be buying it primarily for the IQ, shallow DOF capability etc in a compact package - not for the video - but I'm just trying to establish how usable it would be for us.
 
daveb99 said:
Still considering what to do about a GF1. Occasionally we use the video on our TZ7 - it is actually quite good, with fast, continuous AF and half decent stereo sound (none of the horrible hissing from the TZ5). OK, it blows out the highlights occasionally, but it is certainly usable - and better than not having it.

How is the video on the GF1 ? I appreciate most of you may not use it, it wouldn't be my main reason for buying it either - but I have a few questions about it nonetheless.

1. Sound quality - I believe it's mono only. Any hissing? Does it pick up any noises made by the 20mm lens (such as focussing) ?
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Quality isn't great to be honest, and it does pick up the focussing sounds from that lens, yes. Mono too, as you point out.

daveb99 said:
2. Focussing. Does it AF automatically (centre point/area) or do you have to half press the shutter? If you move to another subject, i.e. pan around and need to focus on something in a different focal plane, how would you focus on it? Half press again? I guess there is no sort of continuous AF?
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It does, but you have to turn it on in the menu - I have to say that I've found it hunts a bit. It's 'kind of' continuous AF, but sometimes it falls over and you have to coax it with a shutter depress. Perfectly usable though in the right situations.

daveb99 said:
I must emphasise that I'd be buying it primarily for the IQ, shallow DOF capability etc in a compact package - not for the video - but I'm just trying to establish how usable it would be for us.
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Image quality of the video is great. Just let down a little by sound. Otherwise, as a camera - spot on.

I wouldn't buy it for video alone, or if you're serious about video. But as an little extra, it works just fine. From what you've said, I think you'd be happy enough.
 
No Nick, the larger sensor thing was one put into another small format camera not a Micro 4/3.

Interesting if a little off putting your remarks re the EVF, I just cannot make up my mind. It doesn't make it any easier that nobody around here has one, but £206 seems rather a lot to gamble. Surely there must be somebody at Panasonic that realises the GF1 as it stands is seriously if not fatally flawed by the viewfinder/ lens selection. My money would be that the lens situation will be addressed by Olympus before Panasonic wake up. Pity that because Panasonic with Leica on board could do so much.

I absolutely agree with you re the primes.

Sorry can't help re the " Lightroom " thing only shoot raw as a backup mainly because I can.

Brian.
 
I seem to remember that Flash in the Pan (member here) had some VFs for sale @ £150 a piece (new). Alternatively, I got mine from Mathers of Lancashire - current price there is £169.

I've only got two lenses for my GF1 at the mo - the 20mm and the 45mm primes (I prefer primes, even though I'm of the 'digital age' where everything is about convenience). The Panny Leica 45mm is a lovely bit of kit, but I wish it were a little faster (eg f2). Very sharp and quick though.

I've heard that some people have been focussing manually using the EVF fine. I can't say I'd find it easy to be honest given the resolution, but I suppose it would be possible.
 
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Thanks for the info. I have rang them and they are in stock, reckon a trip over the Pennines is called for.

Yes the Leica lens is a bit on the slow side, if the EVF is any good I shall have a 100m f1.2.

Fingers crossed.
 
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Hi Brian - I seem to remember you saying you could get a G10 for £250 now - any ideas where? :)

Still tempted by the GF1. Though, I just discovered a friend's dad who teaches photography and has been doing it for many years no longer uses his Olympus E3 since he got a G1.

I like the idea of being able to shoot HD video though.
 
Hi Graham,

Yes I did but bu.....d if I can find it again, it was a special offer so it mght be over.

Re the G1.

I posted earlier that on Tuesday I had a good look at one. I am not easily impressed by cameras, which you might have gathered but, it's a little cracker. Although the viewfinder is electronic it's big and bright, all the information is easily visible. I had a 85mm f1.8 Nikkor with me and in manual focus it was a dawdle. The camera feels right and it is very small.

In fact I would suggest for the average photographer ( and above) the G! is the only camera that they need, note I didn't say want.:) The GF1 suits me much better but then I am a bit of an oddball.

If you can afford it get it, with the kit lens and just enjoy.

And stop reading b....y camera reviews

Brian
 
just got my 20mm 1.7...can't wait to try it
 
Well, just before christmas I finally did the deed and bought a GF1, and I'm VERY impressed with it.

Set to Raw + JPEG, I've been looking through my test shots (taken in Newcastle on New Years Day), and I'm pretty impressed with them (the quality, obviously not the shots themselves!).

Below are a few, all shots are taken directly from the camera, using a selection of the custom modes, no PP just resizing for the web.


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Two more as I reached the max number of Images!


P1000210.jpg


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I think I need to have a good look at the Lightroom Trial and see if I can improve the Raw files in PP, bit as it stands I'm pretty impressed with them.
 
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I'm a new owner of GF1 with 20mm 1.7...hope to learn from image posted here and please include the Exif info
 
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