The great TP election thread

So the selfish, stupid and consumer driven society that we have created votes in a party driven by Social Darwinism, running a campaign on scaremongering, fear, outright lies and a few carrots for the comfortable and we're surprised.

Nothing will change whilst the society we live in is so self-obsessed, narcissistic and driven by the need to consume above all else. Human nature is compassionate, loving, cooperative and edified by acts of kindness and love and until we rebuild it from the ground up by eschewing the mistaken belief that anything outside of us will fill the emptiness inside this is what we'll get.

The revolution must start with our children and children's children. If we want to truly hurt the bastards screwing us every which way we have to withdraw from a system that feeds them. Stop buying s*** we don't need, start become self-referential and learn to pilot the internal guidance system we've each been given, but rarely understand or listen to. The ego is a noise in the silence of our being.

In the meantime, don't blame those who voted this lot in. They're doing the same as everyone else - making the best decision they can with the information they have whilst being gripped by the fearful clutches of the ego.

s*** happens. Let's make it better.
 
Llamaman said:
Breaking news: Farage has lost in South Thanet.
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Some good news today then.

ST4 said:
I think it needs reformed, not privatised but made more cost effective and accountable to tax payers.
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That is exactly what it needs. Fewer managers and more efficiency. It needs to be run as a value for money service and not like a business.


Steve.
 
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Another litle ray of sunshine from a dismal night :)
 
ST4 said:
Depends on the bills they seek to pass. Renewing trident, no bother. Getting an EU in out referendum, somewhat harder but not impossible.
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Not really, some labour will vote for that, plus the SNP may well do too - if we did vote on that and vote to leave, it allows them to open the door on a referendum again.
 
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Greens and UKIP were pro-referendum too, so that's another 2 votes as well.
 
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ChrisHeathcote said:
At least it looks like we're going to have a majority government rather than another coalition. Hopefully will be able to concentrate on improving things, rather than wasting time on the behind the scenes bartering that has gone on for the last 5 years
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Or the sensible negotiation that has reigned in the wost of both parties?
 
Deeper analysis of the results will take time, but I am sure they will be interesting.
In the scheme of things Scotland was a special case and Sturgeons leadership caught the imagination, not only of the Scots but also the English.

In England the effect of UKIP was marked But probably had little effect on the Liberal vote as Liberalism and UKIP have markedly opposing philosophies, where the one does not in any way appeal to the others supporters.

The non core Liberal vote was split three ways and went to the tories and Labour and as non voters in equal measure. Unfortunately they attracted no New support at all. The result was almost inevitable.
What is perhaps surprising about this, is that people blamed them for maintaining a Tory government and policies, Yet many have defected to that party.


UKIP have had a major effect on the result, not by winning seats, which they have not. But by cornering a large number of votes . These they have taken disproportionately from Labor, rather than from the Tories, who share many of their same beliefs as right wing "little Englanders".

However UKIP attract a large number of people who fear that incomers, especially from the EU, take their jobs and force down their wages, take their housing and overload the NHS. and bleed our social security system. This is the typical attitude of people who are disenfranchised themselves, Who, in the past, have largely supported the Labour party.
That shift in votes while not sufficient to win seats for UKIP, was more than enough to shift the result of large numbers of marginal and swing vote seats.

Labour Did not help themselves by running a very weak campaign with very little focus. and almost no alternative policies that could be easily distinguished from those offered by the Conservatives.

Now we are faced by a new Tory Government whose leaders "One people" policies will be challenged by their own right wing, especially Over Europe, taxation, privatisation of health services, and 'small government' issues. This section of the party is heavily influenced by the Republican and Libertarian Ideas coming out of the USA.

The British people can expect, not just more of the same austerity, but a widening of the Gulf between the Have and have nots.
 
i think privatising the NHS in the way of the post office wont happen. The NHS currently outsources services, such as MRI scanning services, to the private health market, so instead of getting in the local hospital queue you get into referred to the local private hospital. I think this sort of oursourcing will still happen but the NHS will always be free at the point of service - As long as that is delivered cost effectively then I dont see an issue. Spending on mental health and other social services needs to be improved though, as that is an area that is neglected.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
The British people can expect, not just more of the same austerity, but a widening of the Gulf between the Have and have nots.
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Labour supporter?

Can you tell me where the line is that defines this gulf, so that I know what side I am on.
 
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viv1969 said:
Closer than many thought though :)
Good riddance to the cheesy-grinned norkmauler.
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Hold your horses - he hasn't actually resigned yet.


Edit: and now he has. Crack open the champagne.
Sod off you lying, duplicitous toerag, and take your dog whistle with you.
 
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Dale_tem said:
Labour supporter?
Can you tell me where the line is that defines this gulf, so that I know what side I am on.
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It's the gulf that widened under 13 years of Labour government - you know that one they don't like to talk about except in opposition.
 
Dale_tem said:
Labour supporter?

Can you tell me where the line is that defines this gulf, so that I know what side I am on.
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Not at all, I am a lifelong believer in the Liberal philosophy.

All the national statistics show a widening gulf between the rich and poor. It has accelerated in the past ten or so years, under both parties.
It is not limited to the financial sector.
If you care to look it up they use a multiplier between top and bottom earners to define this gap.

The gap has been widening since WW2 however it has accelerated recently.
 
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boyfalldown said:
Its hard to see who'll replace them. Neither party has a whole lot of MPs to choose from
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There is always the Green Party option, leader not an MP ;)

Do have a lot of time for Clegg as an apparently genuine guy who just did what was best at the time even if I can't agree with his politics in many areas. Kudos to him for being the buck stopping point.
 
Yv said:
Do have a lot of time for Clegg as an apparently genuine guy who just did what was best at the time even if I can't agree with his politics in many areas. Kudos to him for being the buck stopping point.
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I think they suffered alot from having to much thrust upone them, and then getting used as whipping boys. I'm kind of surprised Cable went from having a 55%:35% lead over the conservatives in 2010 to a 41%:38% lose this time round.
 
Al1944 said:
Clegg and Farage have resigned ........
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Absolutely Inevitable.

Farage by way of throwing his toys out of the pram.... The party will sink with him. He at least tried to keep their public face looking clean.
However the make up only partly covered what was lurking underneath. That will now be increasingly exposed.

Clegg resigned because it would be the only way to give the Lib Dems a new start.
However Liberal philosophy hardly defines popular culture today, so don't hold your breath.
 
Llamaman said:
It's the gulf that widened under 13 years of Labour government - you know that one they don't like to talk about except in opposition.
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It did indeed, the gulf will always widen as it's easy for the rich to generate more wealth. However, under Labour, the very bottom line increased as well, so the poorest were better off. You have to look at more than just the gap.
 
boyfalldown said:
I think they suffered alot from having to much thrust upone them, and then getting used as whipping boys. I'm kind of surprised Cable went from having a 55%:35% lead over the conservatives in 2010 to a 41%:38% lose this time round.
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They suffered because the coalition agreement meant they turned their backs on their voters. If you campaign on something, get votes for that reason, then turn your back on it once you have the votes. It's not likely the same people are going to vote for you again..
 
Well, apparently Farage is considering running for the leadership he just quit.

That's not a resignation, Nigel, that's a holiday.
 
jakeblu said:
Remember Majors 21 seat majority in 92? That parliament was beset with problems for him. By the time 1997 came they were actually in a minority.
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Apparently you don't remember it. The Conservative party won 336 seats in the 1992 election (a majority of 22), but they went into the 1997 election with 343 seats (a majority of 36).
 
KitsuneAndy said:
They suffered because the coalition agreement meant they turned their backs on their voters. If you campaign on something, get votes for that reason, then turn your back on it once you have the votes. It's not likely the same people are going to vote for you again..
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In this country we are very unsophisticated when it come to coalitions. The senior party in a coalition has to give ground on some of its electoral promises. the Junior parties rather more. This is how coalitions actually work.
Most countries that normally have coalitions, like Germany and Israel, understand this very well. Minor party supporters are thankful for such moderation and policy gains that they do achieve.

The Lib Dems Protected the electorate from the full blown effects of a Tory Government. For this we should be thankful not blame them for not achieving all their pre election aims.

Many will now regret the loss of their influence on the next government.
The Opposition is now far too fragmented to be an effective modifier at all.
If the Tories pass the promised legislation to restrict Scottish members to voting on Scottish issues. They will have a free hand to implement anything they like on England.
Heaven help us.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Absolutely Inevitable.

Farage by way of throwing his toys out of the pram.... The party will sink with him. He at least tried to keep their public face looking clean.
However the make up only partly covered what was lurking underneath. That will now be increasingly exposed.

Clegg resigned because it would be the only way to give the Lib Dems a new start.
However Liberal philosophy hardly defines popular culture today, so don't hold your breath.
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I watched the deputy leader on tv last night and I really thought he seemed a reasonable face for the UKIP, well at least he wasnt a nuckle dragger anyway.
 
jakeblu said:
I watched the deputy leader on tv last night and I really thought he seemed a reasonable face for the UKIP, well at least he wasnt a nuckle dragger anyway.
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Watch that space..................
 
Llamaman said:
That's not a resignation, Nigel, that's a holiday.
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that's pretty much what he was quoted as saying on the news just now I'm taking the summer off to consider my options
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Not at all, I am a lifelong believer in the Liberal philosophy.

All the national statistics show a widening gulf between the rich and poor. It has accelerated in the past ten or so years, under both parties.
It is not limited to the financial sector.
If you care to look it up they use a multiplier between top and bottom earners to define this gap.

The gap has been widening since WW2 however it has accelerated recently.
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"The gulf"

So you don't know where it is either? but like to whine about it
 
jakeblu said:
I watched the deputy leader on tv last night and I really thought he seemed a reasonable face for the UKIP, well at least he wasnt a nuckle dragger anyway.
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Nuttall? He's the MEP who keeps blogging that he wants to scrap the NHS and then has to hide it when Farage b*****ks him. He's also a liar of the most outrageous kind, as was revealed on Tuesday when he started making things up in a radio interview to support his argument (Farage repeated the lie the same day, so good riddance to him too). Total t*** - he'll sink UKIP.
 
StewartR said:
Apparently you don't remember it. The Conservative party won 336 seats in the 1992 election (a majority of 22), but they went into the 1997 election with 343 seats (a majority of 36).
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My memories fine mate

http://www.ukpolitical.info/1992.htm

The election turnout of 77.67%[9] was the highest in eighteen years. There was an overall Labour swing of 2.2%, which widened the gap between Labour and the Liberal Democrats. For the Conservatives, despite the reasonable percentage of votes received (only 0.3% down on 1987), the actual Conservative overall majority in the House of Commons was reduced to twenty-one seats. This number was reduced progressively during the course of Major's term in office due to defections of MPs to other parties, by-election defeats and for a time in 1994-95 suspension of the Conservative whip for some MPs who voted against the government on its European policy - by 1996, the Conservatives held a single-seat majority and were in minority going into 1997 up until the 1997 General Election

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1992
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/background/pastelec/ge97con.shtml
 
jakeblu said:
Well further reform of the NHS would be difficult to get through if not impossible. There's talk of increasing the bedroom tax, they would struggle with that, reducing Child benefit, increasing VAT, further severe cuts to welfare, all tory flagship policies and would be very difficult for them to impliment with such a slim majority, even with the support of UKIP & DUP
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"Tory flagship policies"?????
  • Increasing the bedroom tax? - Not mentioned at all in the manifesto.
  • Reducing child benefit? - Not in the manifesto, except reducing/removing child benefit from EU migrants, which wouldn't be controversial.
  • Increasing VAT? - Definitely not in the manifesto, and Cameron even offered to pass a law preventing it.
I don't think they are "flagship policies". They might not be policies at all.

I think you're partly right about these though:
  • Further NHS reform? - There's definitely stuff about the NHS in the manifesto. Some of it is uncontroversial, but some probably would be difficult to implement.
  • Further cuts to welfare? - This probably does qualify as a "flagship" policy. Some aspects (eg capping benefits at the median household income) are uncontroversial. Some (eg changes to disability benefit) might be harder to push through.
 
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