big soft moose
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and help to keep the site free for all
**what annoyed me **
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How is it xenophobic to gaurd your borders?
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And that there is my point. How on earth can I (or you or anyone else) have a coherent view without knowing any of the facts? What I do know is that if we take the stance the Germans are then things here will change potentially dramatically here. Now that may be ok with me but it may not. I don't know what impacts it could have. If we accept say 2 million new people I know it would have a dramatic effect. If its 10,000 spread over the country I doubt it would. Do you have any idea how many it will be over the next 5 years? Does any one person? There are hundreds and hundreds of considerations that need to be taken into account, I don't have those considerations to hand or indeed any best guesstimate.
My whole point is I don't think anyone else has either. Our newly elected government and Europe as a whole needs to have some ideas and some policies and quickly. You and I can then vote for them at the next election or campaign against them or whatever. Unless we have a policy and the reasoning behind it, it's pretty difficult to know where I'd stand on it isn't it? That's my point.
PS. I din't say anyone on here did say "let them all in" i was being generalistic, many are and I think its more or less the German's stance currently...
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Ummm....I hope and trust you have the wrong person there - otherwise you can't read. Or write for that matter
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well someone had to say it.
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Controlled migration, yes, but I would disagree with you about no to EU citizens, remember that if EU citizens lose the right to live in the UK then UK citizens will lose the right to live in the rest of the EU. There are at least as many UK citizens living in the rest of the EU as EU citizens living in the UK.
I think Assad should be left alone for now, concentrate on IS and the other fundamentalist groups, once they have been defeated then the political situation in Syria can be influenced by non violent means like sanctions. Deciding to topple governments by force hasn't worked very well elsewhere recently.
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Regarding Europe, I agree and you are right. It will affect British workers as well. However it is the only way to control migration in a sensible way for our country in a fair and transparent manner just like we do for those who are non-EU.
I hope we can team up and can come up with a proposal to reduce the flow from those countries who are in waiting for entering the EU. Yes I agree the disparity is not fair between EU countries, and in my opinion that was a huge mistake to be allowed. It should be stopped and made conditional for new entrants. But ultimately if we want this to reduce the only option I can see is that we need to leave the EU. Despite that having huge implications for myself.
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Not to mention the huge financial implications and strain that would be caused if the 2 million+ (including many of pensioner age) UK citizens will present for social services, housing and the NHS if they were all to be forced back to the UK from where they currently live in other UK states.
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It all depends on how the change in rules get implemented. A sensible way, in my opinion, would be to allow status quo for those already in that position, but stop it from that point moving forward. Or actually with immediate effect and leave a bridging period for those already abroad to be granted the appropriate visas.
On a different front, I love initiatives like these. That is what I love about people, they can move faster and more decisive where governments can't.
http://www.moas.eu/crowdfunding-to-save-lives-at-sea-e35000-raised-in-one-month/
big soft moose
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It was a cowardly parody that has been going on way too long, opposed a personally directed slur which will wake the mods during their little snooze and gets the discussion locked. It is unnecessarily personal and doesn't add to it. Anyone can draw their own conclusion without having to resort to personal insults.
Just in my opinion.
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I suggest you read the thread before defending him and throwing insults at me.
ST4 quote "Death by facial balistic trauma is right for those who try and circumvent border controls.".
Another lovely one "Make them or let them starve to death"
About the 5 year old washed up "No, just what's on my mind. It simply doesn't bother me." and "So no, I'm not terribly saddened by such images as I see a far bigger and more worrying image than one dead child"
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I don't agree with his opions either, but why make this yet another ST4 conversation, surely there is a much more important issue here than the opinion of one individual?
big soft moose
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Maybe imigration should go on the list of topics not to be discussed together with religion, politics, and speeding
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Isn't that why he starts these threads everyday, to wind everyone up until the thread is locked?
Llamaman
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I think that is as much the fault of [certain people's] "look at me! look at me!" provocations as the inevitable and intended reaction they receive.
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Llamaman
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To be fair, he (*) doesn't start the threads. I think if he (*) were engineering the arguments, a ban would have been forthcoming by now.
(*) And the other provocateurs. He is not the only one, so we should stop singling him out as the Forum's resident bogeyman.
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I suggest you start to read the thread and carefully! Delongi (who you quoted) was quoting and replying to me not ST4! I NEVER said any of those things and dont wish to be tarnished with his brush in any way shape or form.
I am not and would not defend ST4 at all. You insulted me by suggesting I was in someway condoning him by referring to a comment about my remarks not his.
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Sure, but a provocation is just that. I appreciate it can be hard to resist, but I don't see how it can ever be the other persons fault unless they hacked into your account.
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Llamaman
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So does the UK, and the rest of Western Europe if you exclude immigration.
In general, the first world has a declining 'native' population, supplemented by migration from the developing world.
In the developing world, population is increasing, but birth rates are falling - the world's population is plateauing out and will peak (it is estimated) around 2050-2070 before beginning a decline.
IIRC the only country that has an increasing birth rate is Yemen.
As an aside; there is a direct correlation between women's rights (and education in particular) and low birth rates. If we want to manage global population, improving the rights of women around the world should be our No1 priority.
I would heartily recommend people read Matt Ridley's "The Rational Optimist" for discussion of this and other topics.
Llamaman
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Absolutely true, of course, but most people's reaction to an injustice is to want to correct it. This is why the provocations crop up on the same topics but not others - they are well judged to cause outrage and tap into people's natural sense of justice, which is stronger than the rational observation that one is being trolled.
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Ok. by all means correct me if I am wrong but the way I read that is that anyone who doesn't conform to your opinions is racist scum and xenophobic filth!
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But is a falling population actually a bad thing? It can relieve pressures on society with less people around.
Llamaman
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Doesn't relieve pressure on pensions!
We are caught in the double whammy of falling birth rates but increased longevity - meaning there are fewer working people paying the pensions of an increasing number of pensioners.
The only solutions are to make people work for longer, and/or to increase the working population through immigration of workers. Most countries are doing both.
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As the elderly start to die off, even if they live longer, they will die off, the next old generation will be smaller so pensions smaller.
The answer is to get every person who can work, to work. You don't need to import IMHO the level of labour that we do. Good quality people always come and go, travel etc, but IMHO we attract them anyway and should continue. We don't need to import lots of people - it stores up issues and tensions later as you are seeing in Sweden etc.
Llamaman
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I read it as he was saying Britain First specifically are racist scum and xenophobic filth. Because that's what he wrote.
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I got my wires crossed i do apologies.
Llamaman
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Smaller population, but longer-lived than the previous cohort. Still results in a reducing worker : pensioner ratio.
Trust the actuaries on this one - they're a lot cleverer than either of us and they've done the sums. It doesn't bode well for publically-funded pensions. Thanks baby-boomers!
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Smaller population, but longer-lived than the previous cohort. Still results in a reducing worker : pensioner ratio.
Trust the actuaries on this one - they're a lot cleverer than either of us and they've done the sums. It doesn't bode well for publically-funded pensions. Thanks baby-boomers!
It will level out, will take a while and longer working, but from a sustainability point of view a gradualing reducing population isn't a bad thing. Changing very quickly the cultural and socio economic make up of your country can be drastic and lead to a lot of tensions and issues. Letting in good quality people in moderation imho is a good thing and not a problem. Letting in masses of mediocre semi skilled unskilled people is a disaster waiting to happen
big soft moose
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Immigration criteria. Points based like Oz, Canada etc.
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No worries, apology fully accepted and thank-you!
big soft moose
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