Why buy a Mac over a better spec PC? Advice on purchase needed

neil_g said:
sorry but working with both side by side daily, on a like for like spec the OS performance is much and much the same. (Comparing W7 to ML).
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Explain to me why I was getting the hour glass waiting to load 'My Computer' on a straight out of the box Dell laptop then? Why did it take 20 odd minutes to install Office, over the 2-3 minutes on my Mac? The SSD will make some difference, but not that much difference...
 
purpleclouds said:
Explain to me why I was getting the hour glass waiting to load 'My Computer' on a straight out of the box Dell laptop then? Why did it take 20 odd minutes to install Office, over the 2-3 minutes on my Mac? The SSD will make some difference, but not that much difference...
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My macbook pro laptop doesnt seem to much slower than my Dell pc even tho the dell is a higher spec
It may be because the pc is at least 3 years old and has slowed down over time
The guy at the apple shop told me that macs dont slow down over time like a pc because the dont have a registey I dont know if that is true tho
 
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ajax_andy said:
Just done some more research and it seems the most like for like comparable laptop would be the Dell XPS 15 which comes in at about £1500.

I can get a 15" macbook pro for £65 more as I get £150 discount for working in education. Tbh it seems like a no brainer to go for the mac now I've found a real proper windows alternative to compare it against.

The Macbook pro comes with 8GB or Ram though which seems very poor… does anyone have any experience of using LR & PS with only 8GB or did everyone upgrade to the 16GB option?
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Upgrading the ram in apple products is not a hard task.
If you own a screwdriver you can do it, plenty of video tutorials. Buy the ram from Crucial and stick it in yourself. Will save you a lot compared to buying extra when buying the MBP.
 
purpleclouds said:
Explain to me why I was getting the hour glass waiting to load 'My Computer' on a straight out of the box Dell laptop then? Why did it take 20 odd minutes to install Office, over the 2-3 minutes on my Mac? The SSD will make some difference, but not that much difference...
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was it a clean install or a pre-install from dell with all of the "extra" stuff on it?

you cannot really compare an office install, it will be installing different amounts of information and files cross platforms.

also the SSD will make a fair bit of difference. my home desktop with SSD boots far faster than the i7 MBP on my desk at work.

one thing to note, im being very neutral here not suggesting one or the other. merely debunking a few things based on daily usage.
 
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purpleclouds said:
A little over a week between purchase dates and mine is by far the quickest machine, despite having to edit 22mp RAW files and 1080p video whilst hers just handles text based software (she's a translator). Spec wise they're pretty much the same, though mine has a 128GB SSD rather than 500GB standard hard drive.
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So yours has SSD and hers a slow hard drive? That explains any performance difference then. Some machines (like this Dell) have a hybrid system, in this case with a 32Gb SSD that stores frequently used data and a standard hard drive for main storage, but any computer using an ordinary HDD is going to *appear* very slow for opening applications, startup & shutdown etc compared to one usings SSD, even thoughit will be just as fast in actual processing.
 
neil_g said:
was it a clean install or a pre-install from dell with all of the "extra" stuff on it?

you cannot really compare an office install, it will be installing different amounts of information and files cross platforms.

also the SSD will make a fair bit of difference.

one thing to note, im being very neutral here not suggesting one or the other. merely debunking a few things based on no financial allegiance to either system.
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Pre-install from Dell, but when you're spending £1k on a machine you shouldn't have to fart around uninstalling bloatware, right?

I'm comparing a basic task that most people will go through.. I'd have thought that'd be the best way to compare systems.
 
purpleclouds said:
Eh? :) If you meant 'does then maybe it does if it's got lots installed on it. But straight out of the box I find it hard to believe..
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Sorry posting on my phone
It doesnt work very well
the cursor jumps up into the quoted text
 
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purpleclouds said:
Pre-install from Dell, but when you're spending £1k on a machine you shouldn't have to fart around uninstalling bloatware, right?
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to be honest i dont know what dell do these days on "home" systems (we always wipe and install our Volume Licence OS anyway). youre partly right, although hardly the end of the world to sort out.

also its becides the point when the SSD will be making a lot of difference, especially for boot times and program launching.
 
ancient_mariner said:
So yours has SSD and hers a slow hard drive? That explains any performance difference then. Some machines (like this Dell) have a hybrid system, in this case with a 32Gb SSD that stores frequently used data and a standard hard drive for main storage, but any computer using an ordinary HDD is going to *appear* very slow for opening applications, startup & shutdown etc compared to one usings SSD, even thoughit will be just as fast in actual processing.
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Yes, I get that.. and no, it doesn't have a hybrid system. A quick Google suggests SSD write speeds are unto 4-5x faster. That doesn't account for the 10x longer it took to do a basic install.
 
ajax_andy said:
Just done some more research and it seems the most like for like comparable laptop would be the Dell XPS 15 which comes in at about £1500.

I can get a 15" macbook pro for £65 more as I get £150 discount for working in education. Tbh it seems like a no brainer to go for the mac now I've found a real proper windows alternative to compare it against.

The Macbook pro comes with 8GB or Ram though which seems very poor… does anyone have any experience of using LR & PS with only 8GB or did everyone upgrade to the 16GB option?
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Have a look here: http://www.dell.com/uk/dfh/p/xps-laptops?~ck=anav

XPS15 9530 model - i7 quad core processor, 16Gb RAM, 3200 X 1800 screen. 1Tb hybrid drive system for £800 + VAT, 512Gb SSD for £1000 + VAT.

Now, how much for a similar spec 15" retina Mabcook pro that cannot be upgraded (all components soldered to the board, including memory)?

*edit*
8Gb RAM is fine for Lightroom - not sure about PS. It's the recommended minimum for some other applications (like Perfect photosuite) and I can only imagine that in 2 years time it will not be enough for many photo applications.
 
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purpleclouds said:
Yes, I get that.. and no, it doesn't have a hybrid system. A quick Google suggests SSD write speeds are unto 4-5x faster. That doesn't account for the 10x longer it took to do a basic install.
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read above. differnet platform installers will have different amount of files/system info/installation tasks to perform.

not a valid comparison.
 
purpleclouds said:
Yes, I get that.. and no, it doesn't have a hybrid system. A quick Google suggests SSD write speeds are unto 4-5x faster. That doesn't account for the 10x longer it took to do a basic install.
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What medium (CD, DVD, download) was being used to install? I recently downloaded & installed Office 2013 on this XPS, and once the download was complete it took just a couple of minutes, pretty much like it did installing Office:mac 2008 on my old Macbook. There's going to be a reason, and it won't be down to Windows, and IF the hardware is the same spec in your MBP then it won't be down to that either.
 
neil_g said:
read above. differnet platform installers will have different amount of files/system info/installation tasks to perform.

not a valid comparison.
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Your average user doesn't care about that, all they want is Word/Excel/Powerpoint installed. The end product is exactly the same so surely the extra files, system info, install tasks surely point to a less efficient system. There's nothing Windows Office will do that Mac Office won't.
 
ancient_mariner said:
What medium (CD, DVD, download) was being used to install? I recently downloaded & installed Office 2013 on this XPS, and once the download was complete it took just a couple of minutes, pretty much like it did installing Office:mac 2008 on my old Macbook. There's going to be a reason, and it won't be down to Windows, and IF the hardware is the same spec in your MBP then it won't be down to that either.
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Both hard drive installs (from an external USB standard hard drive).

It might not be down to Windows, and has been pointed out it's probably due to the bloatware that Dell install pre-shipment (something endemic in all PC manufacturers I believe. Used to work at PC World and sold Acers/Packard Bell etc. All the same.). As I've said, why should you have to deal with that to get a decent system working as it should? It's all part of the buying experience.
 
purpleclouds said:
Your average user doesn't care about that, all they want is Word/Excel/Powerpoint installed. The end product is exactly the same so surely the extra files, system info, install tasks surely point to a less efficient system. There's nothing Windows Office will do that Mac Office won't.
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Office for Mac crashes more if that's useful for you :D

I don't know how many more times I can say this but installing a program is not a valid comparison for cross platform performance. It might be labelled as the same program the the processes involved at setting that program up on each platform are completely different.

Run that PS processing benchmark that is around here somewhere on both systems then that would be a comparison worth talking about (as long as you gave full system specs for both).

edit: this one - http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18342923
 
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ajax_andy said:
Just done some more research and it seems the most like for like comparable laptop would be the Dell XPS 15 which comes in at about £1500.

I can get a 15" macbook pro for £65 more as I get £150 discount for working in education. Tbh it seems like a no brainer to go for the mac now I've found a real proper windows alternative to compare it against.

The Macbook pro comes with 8GB or Ram though which seems very poor… does anyone have any experience of using LR & PS with only 8GB or did everyone upgrade to the 16GB option?
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Mine is 8gb. It's fairly quick, but if I could go back I'd probably opt for 16gb.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Have a look here: http://www.dell.com/uk/dfh/p/xps-laptops?~ck=anav

XPS15 9530 model - i7 quad core processor, 16Gb RAM, 3200 X 1800 screen. 1Tb hybrid drive system for £800 + VAT, 512Gb SSD for £1000 + VAT.

Now, how much for a similar spec 15" retina Mabcook pro that cannot be upgraded (all components soldered to the board, including memory)?

*edit*
8Gb RAM is fine for Lightroom - not sure about PS. It's the recommended minimum for some other applications (like Perfect photosuite) and I can only imagine that in 2 years time it will not be enough for many photo applications.
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Discounted that due to the crap battery life. Apart from that though yeah it's a lot of bang for my buck… definitely worth considering :)
 
purpleclouds said:
Both hard drive installs (from an external USB standard hard drive).

It might not be down to Windows, and has been pointed out it's probably due to the bloatware that Dell install pre-shipment (something endemic in all PC manufacturers I believe. Used to work at PC World and sold Acers/Packard Bell etc. All the same.). As I've said, why should you have to deal with that to get a decent system working as it should? It's all part of the buying experience.
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Why are you so angry?
 
neil_g said:
Office for Mac crashes more if that's useful for you :D

I don't know how many more times I can say this but installing a program is not a valid comparison for cross platform performance. It might be labelled as the same program the the processes involved at setting that program up on each platform are completely different.

Run that PS processing benchmark that is around here somewhere on both systems then that would be a comparison worth talking about (as long as you gave full system specs for both).

edit: this one -http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18342923
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I'm away until tomorrow evening, but if I remember and can prise her new toy from her hands I'll do just that. Both are i5 2.4ghz, 8gb ram. I was quite surprised when she was weighing up which to buy that price wise the Dell were right up there with Apple for similar specced machines. As I said, only £120 difference and it's built with a plastic shell that won't take what I'll throw at the Mac (or what I'll throw the Mac at! ;))

I'm coming at this from a consumer viewpoint. As someone who doesn't care about benchmark tests etc. I just want to install stuff and have it up and running as quick as possible. My personal and recent experience tells me this is something that Windows (at least on consumer bought machines) is far behind OS X on.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Have a look here: http://www.dell.com/uk/dfh/p/xps-laptops?~ck=anav

XPS15 9530 model - i7 quad core processor, 16Gb RAM, 3200 X 1800 screen. 1Tb hybrid drive system for £800 + VAT, 512Gb SSD for £1000 + VAT.

Now, how much for a similar spec 15" retina Mabcook pro that cannot be upgraded (all components soldered to the board, including memory)?

*edit*
8Gb RAM is fine for Lightroom - not sure about PS. It's the recommended minimum for some other applications (like Perfect photosuite) and I can only imagine that in 2 years time it will not be enough for many photo applications.
Click to expand...

Just realised that's for a refurb… not keen on buying a refurb tbh
 
purpleclouds said:
I'm away until tomorrow evening, but if I remember and can prise her new toy from her hands I'll do just that. Both are i5 2.4ghz, 8gb ram. I was quite surprised when she was weighing up which to buy that price wise the Dell were right up there with Apple for similar specced machines. As I said, only £120 difference and it's built with a plastic shell that won't take what I'll throw at the Mac (or what I'll throw the Mac at! ;))
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you should see some of the state of some of our macs. death by travel have occurred many times. that nice metal case dents a treat :D

I'm coming at this from a consumer viewpoint. As someone who doesn't care about benchmark tests etc. I just want to install stuff and have it up and running as quick as possible. My personal and recent experience tells me this is something that Windows (at least on consumer bought machines) is far behind OS X on.
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like i say supporting these two daily for many many (too many to care about) years, at the moment comparing W7 and ML both platforms are comparable for performance on a like for like hardware spec.
 
neil_g said:
you should see some of the state of some of our macs. death by travel have occurred many times. that nice metal case dents a treat :D


like i say supporting these two daily for many many (too many to care about) years, at the moment comparing W7 and ML both platforms are comparable for performance on a like for like hardware spec.
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My old Pro has been round the world with me and has plenty of dings, each with a story to tell! Nowt like a war wound from Brazil to impress clients with ;)

I'm not denying that they can't run at the same performance levels, I'm just trying to point out that fresh out of the box from the manufacturer one is more pleasant experience than the other for your average not-IT-support shopper. I'm looking forward to the PS benchmark results...
 
ajax_andy said:
Just to keep the thread on track I don't give 2 hoots about load up times or if it takes 1 hour vs 20 mins to install office :D
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This is the nearest Mac I can find to match my XPS15 - refurb £1869 - £2199 new. :p

My Dell was apparently a refurb, but if it was I couldn't tell. It was unmarked, came with all the plastic sealing film in place, no visible sign of use on the kekboard or trackpad. When I booted it was a clearly a fresh install of windows, and I had to go through the normal final install screens, registering software etc. If it was previously used then there was no sign of it.

One other benefit of buying this way is that there is no 'free' cruftware installed. So you get a virgin windows install with additional Dell drivers for trackpad etc, but no other software that tries to sell you things or bogs down the machine. I was quite impressed and pleased.

And since we've talked about battery life. I get about 4 hours of image-editing life with the wireless on and outlook running in the background. That goes up with just ordinary office processes. My Macbook would do about 4 hours of office work when the battery was still new, now down to about 2 1/2 hours office work (about 1 hr 15 for surfing with wireless on & using firefox) at 5 years old.

Ah, one more thought - Dell offer onsite warranty, but Applecare is return to base, if that matters to you.
 
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For me, my newer MBA is slower than my much older PC. MBA is purchased in December, the latest model with Haswel CPU. PC had its last updated around 2 years ago, 2 generations behind on CPU. The speed difference is night and day.





:ROFLMAO: (guess why such big speed difference)
 
Surely its how a program works for you once installed, you only install it once so really who cares how long it takes. I just dont get the point of this debate tbh.

I use windows (desktop and laptop) and never had issues with any over the years ( always uninstalled and reinstalled windows clean on OEM machines though. Dell Packard Bell etc, these machines just run awful with pre installed bloatware and TSR programs and apps running in the background). My brother in law recently got a Mac book (he bought it for the same reason he spends ridiculous amounts on designer clothes even if he secretly doesn't particularly like them, lol.)

Anyway having never really used a Mac I couldnt wait to get my hands on it to see what all the fuss is about. Well excuse me but what an absolutely awful and archaic OS, deary me even the simplest of tasks are menu deep and really unintuitive, he even had to download a separate file finder app to find files easily. He is forever saying "how do I ......" Etc etc and when I try to do whatever task he is trying to do it is hard hard work figuring out how to find files,find folders,open or execute anything.
Sorry, and I am sure plenty will disagree but I would never ever thank you for a Mac over a windows OS. In my opinion its a case of Style over Functionality.
 
Gazamonk said:
Anyway having never really used a Mac I couldnt wait to get my hands on it to see what all the fuss is about. Well excuse me but what an absolutely awful and archaic OS, deary me even the simplest of tasks are menu deep and really unintuitive, he even had to download a separate file finder app to find files easily. He is forever saying "how do I ......" Etc etc and when I try to do whatever task he is trying to do it is hard hard work figuring out how to find files,find folders,open or execute anything.
Sorry, and I am sure plenty will disagree but I would never ever thank you for a Mac over a windows OS. In my opinion its a case of Style over Functionality.
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Clearly only used it once or twice. It takes me a maximum two clicks to launch any app. One click and typing of the name to find a file. Having not used Windows since XP, I felt the same with even Windows 7. The network and sharing centre for one is awfully designed. But then, I've only used it once or twice...
 
No doubt you can and I'm sure it works for you, i think the biggest one for me is no right click menu which is such a boon in windows.
 
I use both windows and Mac - I changed to Mac after windows 8 which i hate but use Win 7 at work.
Neither is perfect - Apple is far too parochial and the software and hardware too expensive but its reliable an user friendly! Windows is more universal but easier to crash particularly with adobe stuff!
Ps There is a right click menu on a mac if you use a none mac mouse
 
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