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maybe. personally i think editing on a laptop display is always going to be a compromise. and always worth using a good external display where possible.
Why buy a Mac over a better spec PC? Advice on purchase needed
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lol ...and the toys come flying out of the pram !
Not at all. I made a comment as to why I buy into Apple. Then the fanboy comments started.
It's my opinion and the reasons why I don't like windows. I don't expect people to tell me I'm talking rubbish and a fanboy. It's my opinion and tough luck if you don't like it.
There are people hear that don't like apple or osx. You don't see me calling them fanboys or discrediting their own opinions.
That's the reason why these threads go down hill so fast.
Yes I agree, but external display is not an option for me and for others who need to edit on the go.
I think its a shame there isnt more available in that bracket
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it really depends what you want to get out of it....I hate 'photo editing' on a laptop screen, regardless of which screen, it is just too small for my personal liking. I mean with a nice (matt
) 30" screen on my desk why would I want to look at a tiny little desktop screen. From that perspective I actually decided that when I replaced my Macbook Pro, that the Macbook Air is good enough as it provides the portability, the speed, and the thunderbolt ports to connect my external screen Coupled that with when they were released the retina graphics card wasn't smooth enough with OpenGL applications like Apple Aperture for my liking. They may have fixed that by now...However the Retina is really nice I got to give it that.....I preferred portability....
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not me. i like OSX. im REALLY looking foward to Yosemite.
agreed. and agreed. it is a fairly niche market however.
What I need is to be able to edit while in the media centre at a race track, get in quick, download, edit, send to editor, get out on track again.it really depends what you want to get out of it....I hate 'photo editing' on a laptop screen, regardless of which screen, it is just too small for my personal liking. I mean with a nice (matt
However the Retina is really nice I got to give it that.....I preferred portability....
Then in the evenings I want to edit in from my hotel.
Theres no way im carting an external display around the country. Its not practical and not necessary.
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Perfect use case for a Retina Macbook
Saying that, that level of editing has been done many years on normal laptops and even in camera....Get in quick and send out surely doesn't truly require the level of detail the Retina provides...If anything as you use it out and about a lot in varying light condition, I'm with Neil a matt display could be much better...
Some of the afore mentioned laptops have resolutions that exceed retina macs....One thing I don't know if whether the Windows OS has been updated to make sensible use of it...I remember my old Dell 9100 with a 1900x1200 screen on a 15.4" panel and the writing was rather small....I think that is the true strength of the Retina Macbook....Keep the text normal readable yet provide full detail for imaging....
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I reinstalled Office 365 on my PC the other day (needed to go from 32 to 64-bit version) and it took less than 5 minutes to be usable; it streams features from the net, on demand. Clever stuff.
Old-fashioned spinning disk, too.
Where a Mac can really kick you in the goolies is out-of-warranty repairs. I've had (and enjoyed, a lot) two iMacs - a 24" white Core 2 and a 27" aluminium i5. Both needed replacement optical drives, GPUs and screens. I coughed up the extra for AppleCare, and it's just as well that I did; the replacement panel for the i5 was on the info-only invoice at £600. GPUs ran to £300ish each, optical drives a ton. By comparison, You can get the exact same panel in a desktop Dell monitor for £400ish, and that's with all the gubbins that makes a panel into a monitor, too. I can get another GTX660 (ha! can't do THAT in an iMac!) for £150ish. Replacement DVD/BR drive: £30-50.
tl;dr: Apple spares prices are larcenous.
This next bit is about desktop Macs , and specifically iMacs.
If you're operating over the 3 year cycle and you buy AppleCare, an iMac is low-risk. You're giving away a lot of performance to an equivalent-price PC, but you're getting a nicer, quieter enclosure, a guaranteed high-quality display, and a highly integrated and polished end-to-end user experience.
You will not be able to add additional internal storage, your optical drive will be external, if you want another network port then you're into Heath Robinson solutions, your graphics card will be at best a mediocre mobile version and you won't be able to upgrade it, your CPU is the one you're stuck with for the life of the computer, and if anything breaks (other than the keyboard or mouse) you're pretty much stuck with sending it back to the shop - computers that are held together with glue are difficult to service on a good day.
It's a question of deciding what the priorities are. If you value a handsome all-in-one system that has minimal wires and everything looks and feels good, then an iMac is a no-brainer, if you buy the AppleCare and are happy to move it on after 3 years. You can get reasonable-looking all-in-one PCs, but there's literally nothing that's as good looking as an iMac.
If you don't care what it looks like, or you want to be able to upgrade it or service it yourself, or you're looking for the best performance for your money, then a PC is what you want.
Because Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty much identical on OS X and Windows.
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nail. head.
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I just had a quick look....
Dell does the QHD displays 3200x1800
Fujitsu do them as well on their ultra book 3200x1800
Toshiba is supposedly doing one with a 3840x2160 although I haven't seen it in the wild
I haven't used them on Windows though, so can't comment how well it works and how well it scales, and whether you need specific apps to make use of them for it or not...But they do exist
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"Its my opinion and tough luck if you dont like it"
LOL, Jeez have a sit down and a cup of tea. Didn't you see the emoticons. I wrote that with my tongue in my cheek not my head up my own ****
"Calm down dear, its only a commercial.........."
I think the threads go downhill so fast because some people just cant lighten up and take stuff way way too seriously.
Its hard to convey intonation and sentiment in text, thats why the emoticons are there but some just don't seem to see them.
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1. The fanboy accusations were made in that direction
2. Not all access devices to read these boards can see emoticons...
Best just not use nasty terms at all. Telling someone to f*** off with a smile on your face is still telling someone to f*** off, the smile doesn't make it right....
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If it were me I'd have the 16GB option.
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Telling someone to F off. Really ?
A light tongue in cheek remark taken completely out of all proportion and thats your comparison. I really am ROFL now.
If I ever want to tell someone to F off (not likely, I am neither the type or of the upbringing to do so) I certainly wouldn't hide it behind an emoticon.
Life's too short, don't waste it getting upset about nothing.
A light tongue in cheek remark taken completely out of all proportion and thats your comparison. I really am ROFL now.
If I ever want to tell someone to F off (not likely, I am neither the type or of the upbringing to do so) I certainly wouldn't hide it behind an emoticon.
Life's too short, don't waste it getting upset about nothing.
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I didn't say that you said that at all, comprehension isn't your strong point is it? Neither am I upset. It was purely to illustrate (and clearly failed miserably, yet at the same time nicely confirming the point...) that you put way too much faith in emoticons.....
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okay ladies... and i got accused for dragging the thread down...
Lol, funny how things go sometimes.
ancient_mariner
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I just had a quick look....
Dell does the QHD displays 3200x1800
Fujitsu do them as well on their ultra book 3200x1800
Toshiba is supposedly doing one with a 3840x2160 although I haven't seen it in the wild
I haven't used them on Windows though, so can't comment how well it works and how well it scales, and whether you need specific apps to make use of them for it or not...But they do exist
The Dell XPS15 I linked to on page 2 (£1000/£1200 inc VAT) has the QHD screen, and it scales fine and (so far) I've not seen a need for specific apps to benefit from the hi res screen. The biggest single fault with it is that it's shiny, just like the retina screen on a Macbook, and is simply very very reflective. I normally work with the machine in clamshell mode using an external monitor that isn't glossy, and that works well too. When delivered, the screen is set to a high colour mode called 'splendid' and it's important to turn this off - it's just simply way OTT - but after that it's fine.
One more comment I'll make is that DVDs play back BEAUTIFULLY on it. I presume it's upscaling, but movies look really good to the point where I'd rather watch a film on the laptop with headphones than sat up at a 24" monitor.
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Not in my understanding at all....but I can understand the easy confusion with the inclusion of a 'DOS' prompt....Windows NT which from Vista onwards includes the desktop operating systems, is not layered on top of DOS at all...Sure it can support DOS applications but think of it as a kind of virtual machine within NT....But Arad explained this already before....
PS. Unless you can show me your io.sys file and himem settings
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Absolutely incorrect.
The last version of Windows that was DOS-based - as in, booted to DOS and ran from DOS - was Windows Millennium Edition. The actual situation was somewhat more complex than that, of course; the Windows 9x software was not a 16-bit DOS program, for example (there was a very clever technique called "thunking" which handled the fiddly 16/32-bit transition and subsequent function calls between 32-bit and 16-bit programs and libraries), and Windows ME had very restricted access to Real Mode (which broke a lot of actual DOS software that worked under Windows 95/98).
Versions of Windows based on the NT architecture - that is to say, Windows NT 3, NT 4, 2000, XP, Vista, 7 and 8 - are not based on DOS and do not boot to DOS. 32-bit versions run 16-bit DOS programs via the NTDVM (NT Virtual DOS Machine) subsystem. Due to the fact that the virtual 8086 feature of 64-bit capable x86 processors is only available in 32-bit mode, 64-bit versions of Windows cannot directly run DOS programs (or any other 16-bit programs) at all, and require virtualisation tools like DOSBox to do so.
The CMD.EXE command-line shell available in Windows NT-based operating systems, whilst command-compatible with DOS, is a 32- or 64-bit Windows program; you can verify this for yourself by inspecting the running process with a tool such as ProcExp. It is being superseded by the much more capable PowerShell. However, I have no doubt that CMD.EXE will be around for a long, long time to come.
The last remnant of DOS in retail was the fact that you could, in Windows XP, create a DOS boot disk. Extended support for Windows 98 and Windows ME ended eight years ago, on July 11th, 2006. To reiterate: there is no DOS-based version of Windows currently supported or for sale by Microsoft.
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ancient_mariner
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/7883/dell-xps-15-qhd-revisiting-the-lcd-results
From the final paragraph:
Pre-calibration it’s at least better than average, and post-calibration all of the tested points are below 2.0 dE, with the average being below 1.0 – essentially perfect. If Dell – or someone else – can deliver a laptop with that sort of color accuracy out of the box, we’d definitely be talking about Editors’ Choice material – for the display if not for the laptop as a whole. For imaging professionals, the combination of a high DPI PPS (like IPS) panel (e.g. “future proof”) that calibrates to nearly perfect colors is the best we have ever tested. Worst-case, you can run the panel at 1080p with 100% scaling and wait for the apps to properly support high DPI; best case, you could run QHD+ resolution and have even more screen real estate to work on editing videos, photos, etc.
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My own experience is mixed. I have iMacs / MacBook Pro / Samsung Laptop / HP Laptop / Chrome Books and 3 Dell PC's for the kids. A fair mix.
Pro Mac:
Mac's tend to last longer before they need replacing; my main desktop is a late 2009 iMac, and it still performs more than adequately for editing, Lightroom, photoshop etc. Very few of my PC's task this long without slowing down horrible. I know a re-build / re-install is a fix to that, but I don't have to bother with it on a Mac. The same is true of my laptop - MacBook Pro.
Software wise, there's nothing I need that doesn't run on a Mac - certainly everything photographic is covered well, never had an issue with old or new hardware, installing drivers etc. Never installed any drivers I don't think!
Aesthetics - they do look quite tidy and clean.
OS - OS X works well for me in me environment. I don't have to dive in under the pretty veneer to make anything work; I can be lazy with it.
Security - OS X is as full of holes as Windows, but there's less interest in exploiting it. So it is a little safe, but not my any means bullet proof!
Pro PC:
There is a lower price point for entry; great for the kids stuff, but there is a compromise on spec. By the time you get a similar spec component for component, there's not a huge amount in it.
You get more choice over the components with less rules laid down as to what you can have with what - it's truly open. This makes it easier to pick and choose and tailor a spec for your specific needs.
There is more software available if you need it. More crap too mind!
Windows - Struggling with this to be honest; Not a huge fan of the latest incarnation on the kids machines.
The Balancing bits!
Going against the Mac? Too few options, you have to pick from a relatively narrow but high specced range, but this in itself is why you tend to get less 'issues' with a Mac - it's a closed eco-system so the programmers can work within a known environment and this allows for more robust software with tighter integration.
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice - one is not better than the other, it's a question of what you value more. For me, after 20+ years working in, developing for and building PC's, I really didn't want to be doing that at home, so opted back in 2002 for the closed eco-system of the Mac for my home setup. I continued with PC's in the work environment for the the next 10 years, but the maturity of the SaaS type, cloud based solutions allowed me to switch to a Mac for work too, despite it still being a predominately PC based company (60,000 PC's and a handful of Macs!).
Mac's and PC's are basically the same hardware now if you spec accordingly.
Looks wise - there's not much in it if you choose carefully (HP / Apple / Samsung all look the same at the top end).
OS wise, they both achieve the same thing but via different methods. I've used a Mac for so long now, I find the PC way clunky; I'm sure a PC user switching would say the same for a Mac in just the same way if I pick up my father in law's Nikon I look like a bloody idiot.
Pro Mac:
Mac's tend to last longer before they need replacing; my main desktop is a late 2009 iMac, and it still performs more than adequately for editing, Lightroom, photoshop etc. Very few of my PC's task this long without slowing down horrible. I know a re-build / re-install is a fix to that, but I don't have to bother with it on a Mac. The same is true of my laptop - MacBook Pro.
Software wise, there's nothing I need that doesn't run on a Mac - certainly everything photographic is covered well, never had an issue with old or new hardware, installing drivers etc. Never installed any drivers I don't think!
Aesthetics - they do look quite tidy and clean.
OS - OS X works well for me in me environment. I don't have to dive in under the pretty veneer to make anything work; I can be lazy with it.
Security - OS X is as full of holes as Windows, but there's less interest in exploiting it. So it is a little safe, but not my any means bullet proof!
Pro PC:
There is a lower price point for entry; great for the kids stuff, but there is a compromise on spec. By the time you get a similar spec component for component, there's not a huge amount in it.
You get more choice over the components with less rules laid down as to what you can have with what - it's truly open. This makes it easier to pick and choose and tailor a spec for your specific needs.
There is more software available if you need it. More crap too mind!
Windows - Struggling with this to be honest; Not a huge fan of the latest incarnation on the kids machines.
The Balancing bits!
Going against the Mac? Too few options, you have to pick from a relatively narrow but high specced range, but this in itself is why you tend to get less 'issues' with a Mac - it's a closed eco-system so the programmers can work within a known environment and this allows for more robust software with tighter integration.
At the end of the day, it's a personal choice - one is not better than the other, it's a question of what you value more. For me, after 20+ years working in, developing for and building PC's, I really didn't want to be doing that at home, so opted back in 2002 for the closed eco-system of the Mac for my home setup. I continued with PC's in the work environment for the the next 10 years, but the maturity of the SaaS type, cloud based solutions allowed me to switch to a Mac for work too, despite it still being a predominately PC based company (60,000 PC's and a handful of Macs!).
Mac's and PC's are basically the same hardware now if you spec accordingly.
Looks wise - there's not much in it if you choose carefully (HP / Apple / Samsung all look the same at the top end).
OS wise, they both achieve the same thing but via different methods. I've used a Mac for so long now, I find the PC way clunky; I'm sure a PC user switching would say the same for a Mac in just the same way if I pick up my father in law's Nikon I look like a bloody idiot.
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Isnt that like saying Ford are still selling there cars based on the internal combustion engine so your Ford Mustang is no better than a Model T.
MWHCVT
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I think the biggest issue on why these threads always degenerate into a bit of a bun fight is the traditional mac mantra of it just works...almost like the mac owners have been brainwashed, I member someone telling me his mac, hadn't frozen it was just having a processing pause FFS
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mrjames
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I bought a mac for 5 reasons:
for better or worse everyone in the creative industry has them- so I got mine for compatibility reasons, and also for giving help/advice to peers if they're having computer issues
clients expect you to have a mac if you're in the creative field, honestly
they look pretty and are well made- i'm a designer who moved into photography, both fields aesthetics are extremely important, so of course I like to work on things that look pretty and work well, my chair is a herman miller, my lenses canon L series, my bags are billingham
windows XP was a terrible OS- you couldn't even view raw files in the browser, so before I had lightroom it was a pain to find the fight file to edit in photoshop as I couldn't see any of the files! Windows 7/8 is much better I agree, but I really like OSX
'specs' for me went beyond components, I cared deeply about the screen, the keyboard quality, the touch pad- I use the computer nearly every day, for most of the day- cost is negliable, I just want something that's not annoying to use
'premium' windows laptops with similar build quality, aesthetics and thin/light chassis' cost a similar amount so unless you go for a plastic POS laptop then the savings aren't huge
I also have a gaming PC, because mac's suck for gaming- so I have a windows desktop and a mac laptop
for better or worse everyone in the creative industry has them- so I got mine for compatibility reasons, and also for giving help/advice to peers if they're having computer issues
clients expect you to have a mac if you're in the creative field, honestly
they look pretty and are well made- i'm a designer who moved into photography, both fields aesthetics are extremely important, so of course I like to work on things that look pretty and work well, my chair is a herman miller, my lenses canon L series, my bags are billingham
windows XP was a terrible OS- you couldn't even view raw files in the browser, so before I had lightroom it was a pain to find the fight file to edit in photoshop as I couldn't see any of the files! Windows 7/8 is much better I agree, but I really like OSX
'specs' for me went beyond components, I cared deeply about the screen, the keyboard quality, the touch pad- I use the computer nearly every day, for most of the day- cost is negliable, I just want something that's not annoying to use
'premium' windows laptops with similar build quality, aesthetics and thin/light chassis' cost a similar amount so unless you go for a plastic POS laptop then the savings aren't huge
I also have a gaming PC, because mac's suck for gaming- so I have a windows desktop and a mac laptop
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for the sake of clarity.. adobe (for example) is cross platform compatible. CS files function on Windows and Mac version fine with no compatibility problems (assuming you're saving any higher version in backwards compatibility etc).
most of the world would disagree with you there
the touchpad handling (software/drivers) is in another league. but remember the laptop components come from most of the same supplier as every other vendor and are put together in a Foxconn factory and as such theyre starting to sneak into other hardware. For example the same type of keyboard is popping up in several other makes.
but you're definitely entitled to your opinion, if it works for you then it was the right choice
PS. Unless you can show me your io.sys file and himem settings
ah now that brings back some memories.. what was the other one you always had to prat around with to get certain CD-ROM drives to work? mscdex?
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I enjoy these threads. I also enjoy the canikon threads too! Maybe I'm just a bit weird. People all getting hot under the collar about a piece of kit. Threads tend to start off with an innocent question and then degenerate into a techy argument that I never understand but am always amazed at how much people know.
My experience is purely as a user. As a personal and small business user. I don't understand computers, the tech, at all. I just want to use them for my photography business.
As such, I bought PCs for years. After 18 months they tended to slow down and the constant hiccups, crashes, hangs, virus software updates, driver requirements updates and reboots became too tedious and I would buy another around the 2 year mark cos I wanted to throw the existing one at the wall. This I thought, was the way life was in this throwaway age with computers.
And then I bought an Apple. I bought an iMac and a MBP
My life transformed. Never once have I had to delve into aspects of the OS I don't understand in order to get something to work. No longer has my computer crashed inexplicably losing the work I was doing, no longer was my hard drive whirring away completing god knows what task I neither understood or necessarily wanted but slowing down my work. No longer was I paranoid about every single attachment I received having to scan it for malware or something I again never really understand!
My MBP is over 5 years old and is as quick and useful as it was the day I bought it. I don't ask much of it, just on the hoof downloading of images and basic LR editing and kids stuff and internet use. My iMac, after 3 years developed a fault on start up I didn't understand. Apple tried to fix it and failed and gave me a brand new one (27") for free even though it was out of warranty by some time. I came home, plugged it in, plugged in my external time machine drive and next morning it was like it was the same machine.
I have no idea about computers. I don't care. I just want to use them as a tool for my business and pleasure. I have never had any virus protection on my macs and never had any problems at all. If I have a plug-in drive from elsewhere, I plug it in and my mac reads it.
Yes there are some annoying features of oSx but nowhere near the frustrations I used to have with my Pcs. Maybe that has all changed. I don't know or care really.
You can say what you like, call me what you like but for me, my Macs just work. No fuss. No mess. They do what I want them to. They rarely crash or hang.
I am not a brilliant example cos I don't ask much of them other than PS and LR and tons of RAW file handling and editing. But they don't let me down or anger me like all my previous pCs did. So if it annoys you that people like me say "they just work" well, that's my experience. I can't help that.
Sorry
My experience is purely as a user. As a personal and small business user. I don't understand computers, the tech, at all. I just want to use them for my photography business.
As such, I bought PCs for years. After 18 months they tended to slow down and the constant hiccups, crashes, hangs, virus software updates, driver requirements updates and reboots became too tedious and I would buy another around the 2 year mark cos I wanted to throw the existing one at the wall. This I thought, was the way life was in this throwaway age with computers.
And then I bought an Apple. I bought an iMac and a MBP
My life transformed. Never once have I had to delve into aspects of the OS I don't understand in order to get something to work. No longer has my computer crashed inexplicably losing the work I was doing, no longer was my hard drive whirring away completing god knows what task I neither understood or necessarily wanted but slowing down my work. No longer was I paranoid about every single attachment I received having to scan it for malware or something I again never really understand!
My MBP is over 5 years old and is as quick and useful as it was the day I bought it. I don't ask much of it, just on the hoof downloading of images and basic LR editing and kids stuff and internet use. My iMac, after 3 years developed a fault on start up I didn't understand. Apple tried to fix it and failed and gave me a brand new one (27") for free even though it was out of warranty by some time. I came home, plugged it in, plugged in my external time machine drive and next morning it was like it was the same machine.
I have no idea about computers. I don't care. I just want to use them as a tool for my business and pleasure. I have never had any virus protection on my macs and never had any problems at all. If I have a plug-in drive from elsewhere, I plug it in and my mac reads it.
Yes there are some annoying features of oSx but nowhere near the frustrations I used to have with my Pcs. Maybe that has all changed. I don't know or care really.
You can say what you like, call me what you like but for me, my Macs just work. No fuss. No mess. They do what I want them to. They rarely crash or hang.
I am not a brilliant example cos I don't ask much of them other than PS and LR and tons of RAW file handling and editing. But they don't let me down or anger me like all my previous pCs did. So if it annoys you that people like me say "they just work" well, that's my experience. I can't help that.
Sorry
Lenovo's Chiclet keyboard is in another league to Apple's....way better.
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@Rich .That I suppose is why you will always have such divergent views. Each persons understanding of computers will be different and thus so will there opinions. Just as peoples needs for there tech will be as diverse. The views of each will vary from experience and deliberate ignorance, i.e. tech expert to luddite.
Its what makes these debates interesting and as you say, quite fun. For some anyway.
Its what makes these debates interesting and as you say, quite fun. For some anyway.
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As is the Cherry MX-switched (brown) Filco I use here and at work
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The problem only becomes apparent when the Luddite expresses an (often glib) opinion and tries to pass themselves off as the expert....
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ancient_mariner
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No need to be sorry - you are the customer (assuming you are well off) for which OSX was designed.
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Being both a Nikon and Mac user I have the best of both worlds
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Being both a Nikon and Mac user I have the best of both worlds
You just had to didn't you?
Couldn't help yourself?
Just want to cause trouble?
Tsk Tsk Tsk, you brought the N word into an already volatile environment. Lol