The Football Thread - Season 2011/2012

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Well, it looks like even 6th place could be beyond Arsenal. Love the way Wenger has his head firmly buried in the sand saying things will be ok.
 
See Jason Roberts is over the papers saying that Terry should not go to the Euros.

He is not doing this situation any good - what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Forgetting anyones personal dislike of Terry, he has not been found guilty of anything so there is no way he should be dropped other than through injury or performance.

Makes this difficult if Rio gets fit, surely they cannot both go and Capello will not drop his captain?
 
Hi Simon,

I agree on the innocent until proven guilty thing. What is a bit bad in some of the footballers eyes (if you believe the reports) is that it used to be a case of if a player was arrested or awaiting trial etc. for an offence, then they were not eligible to be picked. Apparently, the FA changed that AFTER Rio's ban, and some are unhappy about this now.
 
jason roberts should shut his cake hole.

For a start he doesn't know what he is talking about comparing rio's thing with terry's. Rio failed to attend a drug's test. He was't innocent until proven guilty, he didn't make the drugs test - FACT!

Terry has been accused of something and nothing has been proven, so why should he have any form of action put against him, it's ridiculous. What if I went to the united game this weekend and then called the police saying I heard Ferdinand call Arsene Wenger a "french frog" the police would have to investigate and just because they are investigating he should then not be called into the squad?

Ludicrous
 
joescrivens said:
What if I went to the united game this weekend and then called the police saying I heard Ferdinand call Arsene Wenger a "french frog" the police would have to investigate and just because they are investigating he should then not be called into the squad?
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The police would laugh at you, United are playing Chelsea this weekend :D

Plenty of employers would suspend someone accused of the same as Terry pending the outcome of the trial. The FA can't impose any ban in the league, that would be up to Chelsea, but for England they could make him unavailable.

I think the arguments about Rio are that it would be very difficult for him to play alongside Terry – so by picking Terry you are effectively precluding Rio from the squad (who hasn’t done anything wrong). Whether either of them deserves a place in the team based on form at the moment is a different matter.

I think it’s a moral obligation that the FA do something, after all the last time Terry got stripped of the captaincy he didn’t actually do anything wrong in the eyes of the law. It just didn’t do much for squad moral and there are quite a few black players in the squad, how will they react?
 
There are quite a few black players in the Chelsea team too and that does not appear to be a problem.

In the workplace you would probably not have to wait 6 mths or so for a hearing so that's not really relevant. The fact is I don't see how u can punish someone if they are not guilty.

In some ways this could all work out well as rio IMO should not be on the team anyway.
 
irelanst said:
The police would laugh at you, United are playing Chelsea this weekend :D
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So it's only a racist comment if you say it about the manager of the team you are playing at the time? Maybe i was on the phone to him :D

irelanst said:
Plenty of employers would suspend someone accused of the same as Terry pending the outcome of the trial. The FA can't impose any ban in the league, that would be up to Chelsea, but for England they could make him unavailable.

I think the arguments about Rio are that it would be very difficult for him to play alongside Terry – so by picking Terry you are effectively precluding Rio from the squad (who hasn’t done anything wrong). Whether either of them deserves a place in the team based on form at the moment is a different matter.

I think it’s a moral obligation that the FA do something, after all the last time Terry got stripped of the captaincy he didn’t actually do anything wrong in the eyes of the law. It just didn’t do much for squad moral and there are quite a few black players in the squad, how will they react?
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the black players, including rio shouldn't feel anything until the court case is heard. Just because someone has accused you of being racist doesn't mean you are, why should the black players feel anything at all - they don't know what was said.

If I walk into my work office tomorrow and tell my boss that my colleague called me white trash does that mean every white person will feel uncomfortable working with him just because I said it without it being proved?
 
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There have been quite a few cases of players been dropped by England before being found guilty of anything though, Rio was dropped before he was found guilty of missing the test. Bowyer & Woodgate were dropped while they waited trial and Smith was dropped while facing an FA charge not even a criminal one.

Dutch & Flemish are pretty much the same thing in writing BTW.
 
I think they do know what he said, in fact I think we all do, does that make him a racist? No.

Did he use racially abusive language? Yes.

Only a judge (magistrate?) or jury can now decide if he is guilty in the eyes of the law.

I am sure many of his own team mates have been a tad uncomfortable with the whole situation and like the hearing judge said, he would normally expect the case to be heard within 6 weeks but because of the potential of having a huge number of witnesses take the stand, they decided to delay proceedings so that the courts could prepare properly for it.
 
irelanst said:
Rio was dropped before he was found guilty of missing the test.
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You sound like jason roberts - don't you get it. He missed the test, that happened before being charged with it it actually happened, it isn't hearsay or an accusation or an interpretation. He actually didn't take the test.

How is that the same as some member of the public accusing a player of doing something. Until there has been a hearing, you can't prove it. With rio there was nothing to be proved, it was fact that he didn't take the test
 
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joescrivens said:
the black players, including rio shouldn't feel anything until the court case is heard.
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I know if I were in Rio's position, and someone had been charged with racially abusing my brother I wouldn't be as neutral as that. I certainly wouldn't want to be 'locked' up in a training camp with him for a month.

joescrivens said:
You sound like jason roberts - don't you get it. He missed the test, that happened before being charged with it it actually happened, it isn't hearsay or an accusation or an interpretation. He actually didn't take the test.
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He did miss the test, but he may have had a very good reason for missing the test - lots of people have. He was banned from playing for England BEFORE he had his personal hearing.
 
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cambsno said:
See Jason Roberts is over the papers saying that Terry should not go to the Euros.

He is not doing this situation any good - what happened to innocent until proven guilty?
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I think you'll find we have prisons overflowing with people who have been remanded in custody pending a trial at a future date, so that's what happened with the "innocent until proved guilty". There is no restriction on dropping a player from the national team and the FA can suggest this to Cappello if they want. I would humbly suggest that Terry is liable to get the runaround from younger and more skillful players than he comes up against every week, but that then becomes a case of whether you have a better player to put in. :shrug:
 
Peter B said:
I think you'll find we have prisons overflowing with people who have been remanded in custody pending a trial at a future date, so that's what happened with the "innocent until proved guilty". There is no restriction on dropping a player from the national team and the FA can suggest this to Cappello if they want. I would humbly suggest that Terry is liable to get the runaround from younger and more skillful players than he comes up against every week, but that then becomes a case of whether you have a better player to put in. :shrug:
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They are normally in custody for their own protection, if they are likely to do a runner/can't put up bail or there are serious crimes like murder or rape. People are not in custody for more trivial offences.
 
So Terry has been stripped of his captaincy again. I have to say it's a decision I agree with. Whilst I fully understand the innocent until proven guilty argument, if it was an office worker under investigation by the police for using racial language in their workplace I would fully expect them to be given time off whilst the investigation is carried out so I don't see why it should be any different if your office is a football pitch.
 
i disagree with it.

I think just from an accusation you can be removed from action etc is crazy, football or other workplace!
 
TriggerHappy said:
So Terry has been stripped of his captaincy again. I have to say it's a decision I agree with. Whilst I fully understand the innocent until proven guilty argument, if it was an office worker under investigation by the police for using racial language in their workplace I would fully expect them to be given time off whilst the investigation is carried out so I don't see why it should be any different if your office is a football pitch.
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Indeed, we should not forget of course he has not been suspended from playing by club or country, so he is not suspended in that sense.

It was a difficult call by the F.A., criticism would come either way - shame the court case could not have been made before the Euros.

There could of course be commercial concerns for the F.A. as Terry could argue he would lose out commercially from not being the captain if that decision has been taken away in a manner he did not think would be deemed as appropriate.

I would argue that if you strip him of the captaincy you also make him unavailable to play - for me he either stays captain or is not captain and not in the squad. (I'd prefer the latter).
 
akr said:
I would argue that if you strip him of the captaincy you also make him unavailable to play - for me he either stays captain or is not captain and not in the squad. (I'd prefer the latter).
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Absolutely agree with this.
 
TriggerHappy said:
So Terry has been stripped of his captaincy again. I have to say it's a decision I agree with. Whilst I fully understand the innocent until proven guilty argument, if it was an office worker under investigation by the police for using racial language in their workplace I would fully expect them to be given time off whilst the investigation is carried out so I don't see why it should be any different if your office is a football pitch.
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:plus1:

I agree. It's yet another example where there are laws and regulations for all of us and yet football is exempt. In virtually all other working environments I can think of, Terry would have been suspended pending investigation and trial. In fact Chris Huhne's resignation this morning shows how these situations should be handled and Terry should have at least resigned the captaincy under his own volition before the decision was made for him. He was certainly badly advised.

And if he is convicted he will of course carry on playing, no doubt with "full support" from his employer. How many other companies would keep you on if you were found guilty of a racially aggravated public order offence (or other criminal charges that have been dished out to league players over the years).

The real irony will be if Gerrard is appointed in his place, what with Liverpool's recent track record in racial harmony.
 
Spuff said:
:plus1:

I agree. It's yet another example where there are laws and regulations for all of us and yet football is exempt. In virtually all other working environments I can think of, Terry would have been suspended pending investigation and trial. In fact Chris Huhne's resignation this morning shows how these situations should be handled and Terry should have at least resigned the captaincy under his own volition before the decision was made for him. He was certainly badly advised.
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So if a work colleague of mine tells my boss I called him a black c*** I get suspended pending review on the accusation alone? I don't think so.

Spuff said:
The real irony will be if Gerrard is appointed in his place, what with Liverpool's recent track record in racial harmony.
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irrelevant. Gerrard hasn't been involved in any of the incidents. Just because there have been incidents from players and fans at liverpool doesn't mean that should carry over to a player who hasn't had involvement in them. Why should it? That would be like me not being appointed a job at another firm because someone else in the company i worked for was suspended for racial abuse.
 
joescrivens said:
So if a work colleague of mine tells my boss I called him a black c*** I get suspended pending review on the accusation alone? I don't think so.
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Yes, you should be suspended - or certainly, to draw comparison with Terry, once you'd been charged with the racial abuse the suspension should apply.

irrelevant. Gerrard hasn't been involved in any of the incidents. Just because there have been incidents from players and fans at liverpool doesn't mean that should carry over to a player who hasn't had involvement in them. Why should it? That would be like me not being appointed a job at another firm because someone else in the company i worked for was suspended for racial abuse.
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So Gerrard came out and expressed his regret and shame at Suarez's racist abuse? Gerrard was against the incredibly ill-advised t-shirt debacle? He agreed with Dalglish that it was all a bit of banter? It would be like you not getting a job because someone you knew was guilty of racial abuse and then you decided to declare your support for the guilty individual in front of an audience of thousands - complicity by association. It seems totally relevant to me.

In any other environment e.g. teaching, police, civil service etc this would be outrageous behaviour. In football it seems accepted practice.
 
Spuff said:
So Gerrard came out and expressed his regret and shame at Suarez's racist abuse? Gerrard was against the incredibly ill-advised t-shirt debacle? He agreed with Dalglish that it was all a bit of banter? It would be like you not getting a job because someone you knew was guilty of racial abuse and then you decided to declare your support for the guilty individual in front of an audience of thousands - complicity by association. It seems totally relevant to me.

In any other environment e.g. teaching, police, civil service etc this would be outrageous behaviour. In football it seems accepted practice.
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show me where gerrard even made a single comment for or against any of the actions suarez or his team mates regarding the racism row.

other than a recent statement in the programme after the adeymi incident where gerrard went over to comfort him on the pitch. I don't know of a single public statement by gerrard on the events.
 
Please don't bring Liverpool into an argument with Joe, he won't take his red spectacles off. (or white, yellow or silver if they are playing away)

Suddenly JT is now injured and can't face the media united on Sunday, I hope he gets well soon.
 
tiler65 said:
Please don't bring Liverpool into an argument with Joe, he won't take his red spectacles off. (or white, yellow or silver if they are playing away)

Suddenly JT is now injured and can't face the media united on Sunday, I hope he gets well soon.
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hold on a min!!

do you agree with the sentiment that making gerrard captain would be ironic then tom?
 
joescrivens said:
hold on a min!!

do you agree with the sentiment that making gerrard captain would be ironic then tom?
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I don't think it matters who they make captain, all the players play in teams with mixed race and nationalities and the England team is not an exception regarding race.

Because this has become a criminal matter, the political side of it raises more questions and that of a Liverpool player being captain is one of the points.

Personally I would like to see Gerrard as skipper but Signore Cappello has not telephoned me for weeks because I questioned his tactics regarding not picking Micah Richards. And we used to get on so well!
 
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Hmmm, there are some unsavoury act Gerrard is rumoured to have been involved in, so why should he be captain.

I cant see why Terry should resign. IF he really believes he is innocent, then why resign? If he resigned would that not be a part admission of guilt?
 
cambsno said:
Hmmm, there are some unsavoury act Gerrard is rumoured to have been involved in, so why should he be captain.
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bunga bunga parties?
 
Right then tom, for a bottle of Jennings Sneck Lifter, the best dark ale you can buy:

Arsenal - Blackburn - arsenal win
Norwich- Bolton -draw
Qpr - wolves - qpr win
Stoke - Sunderland - draw
West brim - Swansea - Swansea win
Man city - fulham - city win
Newcastle - villa - draw
Chelsea - man u - man u win
Liverpool - spurs - Liverpool win
 
joescrivens said:
Right then tom, for a bottle of Jennings Sneck Lifter, the best dark ale you can buy:

Arsenal - Blackburn - arsenal win
Norwich- Bolton -draw
Qpr - wolves - qpr win
Stoke - Sunderland - draw
West brim - Swansea - Swansea win
Man city - fulham - city win
Newcastle - villa - draw
Chelsea - man u - man u win
Liverpool - spurs - Liverpool win
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Arsenal win
Norwich win
Qpr win
Sunderland win
West brom Draw
City win
Newcastle win
Chelsea draw
Liverpool draw

And the one you missed out.......

Wigan - Everton - Wigan win
 
Cheers PeterB ... i only have freeview, so this is awesome
 
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