The Football Thread - Season 2011/2012

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That was more nervy than I'd expected from Scotland.

Still on track - just need to beat Spain in Spain now or at least match whatever the Czech Republic manage against Lithuania.
 
Honestly I didn't find that too bad. Heck yeah it would have been better if we could have scored 2 but never thought we would concede at all. Even the 2 saves McGregor made where easy for a keeper of his standard.

Big ask for Scotland on Tuesday night though, have to hope that Spain don't play the big guys...or the reserves and instead field a team of 2 divison Spanish part timers who won a national player lottery to represent Spain and meanwhile hope that the Czechs all get food poisoning after having a night out with the English Rugby team while at the local dwarf tossing competition held in a back street boozer and we might get 2nd place. Then we still have to play another team and hope it goes well there too.

Damn it Scotland, why couldn't you make this easy and beat the Czechs when we had the chance too
 
So, Scotland played 451 formation against one of the worst teams in Euro football????
 
cambsno said:
So, Scotland played 451 formation against one of the worst teams in Euro football????
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You point is caller???

Everyone thinks that the 4-5-1 is a negative formation , which to be fair it is if you play with 2 defensive midfielders and 3 narrow midfielders...however Scotland played it with 3 attacking midfielders and with width (effectively player a 4-2-3-1 formation), allowing Morrison to act as second striker and only drop back into midfield when we didn't have possession. As a result our striker was rarely asked to go it alone, had support quickly and if needed too run into the corners had a target in the middle. Also due to the fact we had 3 quick midfielders to press high up the pitch we could defend high and keep the ball more often than not in the oppositions half.

As for on of the worst teams in European football well Liechtenstein took 4 points from Lithuania in this qualifying group (if they hadn't it would be a three-way battle for second), they've also beaten Iceland and Latvia in recent years as well as drawing with Portugal and Slovakia during the qualifying stages for the 2006 World Cup. It's not like Liechtenstein are a completely amateur team who get hammered every game. They've a number of players who play at a decent level in European football and nowadays these teams are a lot more fitter and a lot more organised than they where 10 years ago.

After England's abysmal performance on Friday night, I thought it would be pretty obvious that there is no easy opposition in these European qualifiers anymore.
 
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MackieStaggie said:
After England's abysmal performance on Friday night, I thought it would be pretty obvious that there is no easy opposition in these European qualifiers anymore.
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England's abysmal performance on Friday night had nothing to do with difficult opposition. It was all to do with England being total carp. Spain, holland and Germany would have swept Montenegro aside like they were little boys in a park.

Oh and also, I think you are forgetting San Marino are in this competition too, 11-0 wasn't it by the Dutch?
 
Point was to have 4 defenders playing against a sole striker for one if the weakest teams who probably try to defend most of the game.
 
cambsno said:
Point was to have 4 defenders playing against a sole striker for one if the weakest teams who probably try to defend most of the game.
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You make it sound as if we went out to defend the 90 mins but that was no where near it. We may have had 4 defenders on but they were given free reign to attack, in fact I saw our right back Hutton spend more time inside the opponents half than our own. Fletcher and Adam played in front of our back four to direct the play while Bannan, Naismith and Morrison provided support to our striker.

Did you actually see the game or are you just making assumptions on what you assume a 4-5-1 formation plays like?
 
MackieStaggie said:
Their are worse things in life than being invaded by the Scots.....


.....like the Vikings.
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It's incredible! They are 15,000 here allegedly. All enjoying the sun and having a ball. The spirit in town has been great and the locals are a bit bemused!
 
Ricardodaforce said:
It's incredible! They are 15,000 here allegedly. All enjoying the sun and having a ball. The spirit in town has been great and the locals are a bit bemused!
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Pity there are only 1,500 tickets for them, but who said it was about actually being in the stadium? :wave:
 
Here's hoping things work out for Scotland tonight.
 
Peter B said:
Pity there are only 1,500 tickets for them, but who said it was about actually being in the stadium? :wave:
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There is no literal translation for "kilt". Therefore for the locals, this in an invading army of men in skirts :LOL::LOL::LOL:
 
personally glad that scotland didn't qualify tonight. Basically because i spent a summer in scotland during englands 2000 euro campaign and the abuse i got from the scottish has made me always enjoy scotland failing in football.
 
joescrivens said:
personally glad that scotland didn't qualify tonight. Basically because i spent a summer in scotland during englands 2000 euro campaign and the abuse i got from the scottish has made me always enjoy scotland failing in football.
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Me too. They are happy to gloat when we fail, but at least we generally get there!!! No doubt they will moan about the czech game, but didn't Scot draw with Lithuania, so only themselves to blame!
 
Aww and you call us Bitter ;)

And by the way, yes you'll hear complaints about the Czech game....but probably not the one your thinking of. Anyway, had us down as the 3rd best team in that group and low and behold finished 3rd so no complaints.

As from where we go from here, well I want to keep the Clark Kent look-a-like in for another attempt at the world cup qualification. There has been slow improvement to the team, but a bit too slow, our problem comes down to a poor structure at base level and will take years to fix...but only if the association's affected actually work together for once.

Anyway, will enjoy the usual European/World Cup again. You know, the media bigging up England's chances only to hang them as soon as they go out, and I'll support Spain as I have done ever since I could legally place bets on them (Japan 2002)
 
I wanted Scotland to qualify - makes the banter better during the finals and it also gives Scots some interest other than just supporting whoever England are playing.
 
MackieStaggie said:
Aww and you call us Bitter ;)

And by the way, yes you'll hear complaints about the Czech game....but probably not the one your thinking of. Anyway, had us down as the 3rd best team in that group and low and behold finished 3rd so no complaints.

As from where we go from here, well I want to keep the Clark Kent look-a-like in for another attempt at the world cup qualification. There has been slow improvement to the team, but a bit too slow, our problem comes down to a poor structure at base level and will take years to fix...but only if the association's affected actually work together for once.

Anyway, will enjoy the usual European/World Cup again. You know, the media bigging up England's chances only to hang them as soon as they go out, and I'll support Spain as I have done ever since I could legally place bets on them (Japan 2002)
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I find the biggest problem for Scotland in the future is getting Scottish players to play at the top level, even the big two have legions of foreigners in their ranks. No funding at grass roots is because Scottish football is dull and has a very strange top tier format that only promotes the the strongest teams.

Celtic and Rangers would be better setting up a North Sea League with the best teams from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland.
 
tiler65 said:
I find the biggest problem for Scotland in the future is getting Scottish players to play at the top level, even the big two have legions of foreigners in their ranks. No funding at grass roots is because Scottish football is dull and has a very strange top tier format that only promotes the the strongest teams.

Celtic and Rangers would be better setting up a North Sea League with the best teams from Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland.
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To be fair there are a few decent young players for both the Old Firm (Forrest for Celtic, Fleck and Wylde for Rangers) but these boys will need to move south to get better. The team we had out last night had 8 players who play the English Premiership, 2 in the SPL and 1 in the Championship, so we have players who play at a high level.

The painful thing is that football in Scotland is dieing on its knees (knocked from our feet years ago) because of a lack of interest. I'll use my team Ross County as an example to the state of football in Scotland.

We are in the 1st division, therefore we play the same team 4 times in a season, 2 at home and 2 away. We also have the Challenge Cup (like the Johnstones Paint Trophy) League Cup and Scottish Cup so it is not beyond the possibility of playing the same team 5,6 or even 7 times a season. To be honest, I'm sick and tired of seeing Queen of The South and Dundee all the time. Interesting bit of fact was that attendance increased in the season we went down a division compared to the same time the season before. Most obvious reason being, new opponents.

Now, add in the factor of pricing. This Saturday the supporters club are putting on a bus to an away game to Dundee....and despite what I said above about being sick and tired of watching County play Dundee I was planning to head down. Now the bus costs around £15 but to get into the ground it would cost £19...add onto the price of a pie at Dens (if it can be called a pie) and a couple of pints in Perth and Dundee then it would cost me around £50-60. For a family of 2 parents and 2 children....well it's in excess of £100 easily. Home games, well we are one of the cheaper gate prices at £14 to get into the terracing (yeah we can still stand at games, not all doom and gloom) or £15 for the stands but even still it's expensive day out.

Now with a lack of interest in the game and costs which keep climbing as clubs desperately try to generate income to stay full time, the clubs can not afford youth level development on the scale which is needed. We are lucky in the sense we have a football academy and have had a few players who went south to the likes of Liverpool and Fulham but never quite made it at that level but are still playing football at a level 10 times (at least) the standard of the 1st division, but other can't afford that.

So we are stuck in a rut and the only way forward is, and I've said it before on this thread, a complete and utter financial failure of our associations so we could start with a blank sheet. No restructure will work as we would only be covering the gaps...we need to kill it with fire and start again (btw using fire is also my solution to cutting the grass.....the better half still makes me use the lawnmower.)
 
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MackieStaggie said:
To be fair there are a few decent young players for both the Old Firm (Forrest for Celtic, Fleck and Wylde for Rangers) but these boys will need to move south to get better. The team we had out last night had 8 players who play the English Premiership, 2 in the SPL and 1 in the Championship, so we have players who play at a high level.
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But there lies your problem, only 2 from the SPL.

Having just looked at the starting line up for last night, I would like to compare a like for like player to say get in the England team (not saying England are better)

I can only see possibly 4 players getting in the England squad and then possibly only 2 to actually feature on a regular basis.

Squad, McGregor, Bannan, Adam & Fletcher with the latter two featuring sometimes in the team. Bannan is a bright prospect.

The Republic of Ireland is in a worse state than you but survives on imported players nationally.
 
joescrivens said:
3 match ban for rooney.

good!

maybe he'll learn a lesson
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I doubt he'll learn anything Joe - just one of those folk who snap sometimes and unfortunately it comes at a price.

No real shock that the 3 match ban was dished out but it leaves England with some tough choices to make now.

Who knows who will and won't be fit come selection time for 2012 but I can see both sides of the debate regarding why he should / shouldn't be selected for the tournament.

If he's selected yet we fail to get through the group stages - he would have been a complete waste of a selection.

If he's not selected and we do get through the group stages - we'd be missing our best player for the games he could have played in.

I suspect the English FA might appeal to Uefa and see what happens. It might be reduced to 2 games or it may become 4 games in which case the choice becomes easier.

Knowing Rooney though he'll probably have a broken foot by then :bonk:
 
I don't normally stick up for Capello, but he really is in a no win situation, the press and public will crucify him if he comes, but doesn't play, and likewise if he doesn't come and we don't do well.

I would NOT take him - not because I am a Man U or Rooney hater (as some seem to be), but because we cannot afford to have someone missing at best half, at worst 3/4 of the games we may play. Yes, he is in great form this season and is one of the few players who is really world class, but he has not performed in the last to tournaments anyway. lets build the team around those who are available. Remember '66, no Greaves who was out no.1 striker?? Personally, I feel that Capello will take him and he will walk back in for the QF.
 
I agree Capello is in a no win situation.

I just think that for 3 games - squads are large enough to include a player who won't feature till later if suspended. We've seen in the past (which is worse) similar situations where players are taken to a tournament lacking match fitness or carrying a knock but we could be talking about a fully fit top class player.

We've lost in various quarter finals, semi finals etc over the years and I just want to win something. Much depends on who we get in the group draw but knocked out is knocked out regardless of whether it happens in the group stage or the semi final. I just think we've such a slim chance of winning anyway that we have to aim to have our most talented players available should we get to the business end of the tournament.
 
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I hope he gets left behind. No doubt he's a great player for united but he's a huge under performer on the international stage. To lash out like that was just moronic and he should be taught a lesson, not encouraged to write an insincere apology letter hoping to be let off the hook once again. Even with him in the squad firing at full potential we don't have a chance against the likes of spain and germany so give some of the others players the chance they deserve for being consistent and well disciplined.
 
TriggerHappy said:
I hope he gets left behind. No doubt he's a great player for united but he's a huge under performer on the international stage. To lash out like that was just moronic and he should be taught a lesson, not encouraged to write an insincere apology letter hoping to be let off the hook once again. Even with him in the squad firing at full potential we don't have a chance against the likes of spain and germany so give some of the others players the chance they deserve for being consistent and well disciplined.
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I can't honestly think of who has been consistent for England (consistently good anyway) but I agree from a moral and ethical point of view about leaving him out. Putting nicities to one side - I still feel if we make the knock out stages I'd want (a fit) Rooney available. True we have little chance but that probably gives more weight to the reasoning behind selecting him.

It's not like we'll be only taking two forwards with us - you could be talking about selecting another forward player in Rooney's place who wouldn't get off the bench anyway.
 
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I dont get that whole appeal process punishment. It's like why offer an appeal service but then punish you for using it if the decision is not overturned? Imagine that in a real court of law - you get sentenced for 10 years, you appeal and get another 2 years added on for appealing - its ludicrous
 
joescrivens said:
I dont get that whole appeal process punishment. It's like why offer an appeal service but then punish you for using it if the decision is not overturned? Imagine that in a real court of law - you get sentenced for 10 years, you appeal and get another 2 years added on for appealing - its ludicrous
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UEFA do not have a frivolous appeal ruling so it can only be a reduction or the same ban, unless they introduce new rules - which is highly possible (just for the conspiracy theorists out there)
 
tiler65 said:
UEFA do not have a frivolous appeal ruling so it can only be a reduction or the same ban, unless they introduce new rules - which is highly possible (just for the conspiracy theorists out there)
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Is that the case with Uefa ?

I have no idea although this is The Guardian's take on the frivolous appeals.

What happens next?

The FA has 72 hours from the "dispatch of the reasoned decision" in which to decide whether to appeal against the severity of the ban. Its legal team will examine the written reasoning behind Uefa's decision and then determine whether an appeal is likely to succeed, with inquiries to be made to Uefa as to whether an appeal may be deemed frivolous and therefore result in the suspension being extended, as it could be in England domestic football. There were suggestions on Thursday night that similar arrangements regarding perceived frivolous appeals are not written into Uefa's statutes, though the FA will still seek confirmation of as much in its communication with European football's governing body this week.

Would an appeal be successful?

Almost certainly not. Uefa has examined the evidence and the player's disciplinary record, and the offence is clear, acknowledged and would warrant a three-game ban in the Premier League or Football League. Besides, by taking the matter further, the FA would leave itself open to accusations of hypocrisy when clubs appeal against similar punishments in the future. How could it uphold its own ban if Manchester United chose to dispute a three-game sanction handed to Rooney should he commit a similar offence in a high-profile Premier League or FA Cup match?
 
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tiler65 said:
UEFA do not have a frivolous appeal ruling so it can only be a reduction or the same ban, unless they introduce new rules - which is highly possible (just for the conspiracy theorists out there)
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Can you explain? I read that they can get an extra game ban. Are you saying this is not correct?
 
So Liverpool v United then.

Can't say I'm overly happy with the team selection although I'm just hoping United show a bit more desire than they have in their last few games at Anfield.
 
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joescrivens said:
why is rooney on the bench?
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I know Rooney, Nani and Hernandez all on the bench - that won't do my Fantasy football any good. We've the City game coming up which (much as it pains me to say) is more important in terms of points won/lost so that may have been on Fergies mind although he did say Rooney had had a troublesome week. Probably didn't want him getting sent off again.

All a bit scrappy and impatient from both sides in the first half. Lets hope the hustle and bustle gives way to some quality in the second half.
 
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I think it was fairly even up to the point united equalised and for the last ten mins Liverpool were all over utd and could have scored 2 so whilst fergie will be happy with the draw I think kenny will be disappointed not to have won
 
joescrivens said:
I think it was fairly even up to the point united equalised and for the last ten mins Liverpool were all over utd and could have scored 2 so whilst fergie will be happy with the draw I think kenny will be disappointed not to have won
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A fair assesment and a draw was about right as neither team showed much in the way of quality.

Still miffed with team selection but a point is a point and more than we've got at Anfield in a while so can't complain.

Adam and Downing have obviously been to the Suárez & Gerrard school of embarrassing swallow dives but Giggs was a big girls blouse for letting what was a fairly routine free kick through the wall.

Not much else to say - bit of a non event really.
 
dinners said:
A fair assesment and a draw was about right as neither team showed much in the way of quality.

Still miffed with team selection but a point is a point and more than we've got at Anfield in a while so can't complain.

Adam and Downing have obviously been to the Suárez & Gerrard school of embarrassing swallow dives but Giggs was a big girls blouse for letting what was a fairly routine free kick through the wall.

Not much else to say - bit of a non event really.
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Yes, wasn't exactly a classic

An accurate match report.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/15225853.stm
 
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