The great TP election thread

viv1969 said:
The greens have got more chance of plaiting snot than they have of ever becoming more than just an irritating mouthpiece in politics.
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They've got an MP (more than UKIP had until recently) and 3 MEPs (putting them 4th, with more than the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein, DUP, Ulster Unionists...)
Not exactly a powerhouse, but relevant.
 
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viv1969 said:
The greens have got more chance of plaiting snot than they have of ever becoming more than just an irritating mouthpiece in politics.
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I'd like to agree with that, the problem is their policies have infiltrated primary schools & they will eventually be believed by more & more kids.......who become adults.......who have kids.....who become teachers/leaders....

The whole Green `movement` costs the economy an absolute fortune!
 
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OldCarlos said:
I'd like to agree with that, the problem is their policies have infiltrated primary schools & they will eventually be believed by more & more kids.......who become adults.......who have kids.....who become teachers/leaders....

The whole Green `movement` costs the economy an absolute fortune!
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Umm, are you conflating environmental and climate science as a discipline with a slightly barmy political party?
Whooooooooosh goes the strawman.
 
ST4 said:
I am agreeing with people who's posts normally send me running for the hills...

What is happening. Unity on TP!!!!
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Stop it at once ....or I'll call a constable!
 
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viv1969 said:
The greens have got more chance of plaiting snot than they have of ever becoming more than just an irritating mouthpiece in politics.
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That's true nationally, but down here (Isle of Wight) the Green Party candidate has got a very strong following.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
That's true nationally, but down here (Isle of Wight) the Green Party candidate has got a very strong following.


Steve.
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There's still time to catch a ferry.
 
rjbell said:
They may do tomorrow. Everyone other than the tories and ukip.
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Who knows how many seats they will get between them, maybe enough to form a majoritiy government. I hope so, but it might not be the overall will of the people.


Steve Smith said:
That's a much better idea than you think!


Steve.
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Its the ultimate form of PR when you think of it.

Come to think of it, elections here are based on the number of seats gained, not the number of votes. A party could get a lot of votes, but very few seats (ie a majority in one place).

PR IMHO is a much fairer and more democratic choice.
 
ST4 said:
A party could get a lot of votes, but very few seats (ie a majority in one place).
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That's the situation the Lib Dems have consistently found themselves in, and UKIP will do too this time around.

2010 election
Conservative: 36.1% of popular vote, 47% of seats
Labour: 29% popular, 40% seats
LibDem: 22% popular, 9% seats
 
Llamaman said:
That's the situation the Lib Dems have consistently found themselves in, and UKIP will do too this time around.

2010 election
Conservative: 36.1% of popular vote, 47% of seats
Labour: 29% popular, 40% seats
LibDem: 22% popular, 9% seats
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Exactly and it's not right. Perhaps with two hung parliaments in a row the way governments are formed and how the will of the people is represented will be reviewed.

My choice of government won't be your choice but it's the number of people making each choice that matters, not which seat that choice comes from that IMHO matters.

The total number of votes for each party should have a very large say in who gets in IMHO
 
ST4 said:
Its the ultimate form of PR when you think of it.
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Except it isn't, because those MPs are still elected by the flawed FPTP method. Parties who poll consistent minorities across all seats would still be under-represented in parliament compared to the popular vote.
A better option would be to have one MP for every 1/650th of the popular vote, and THEN have all 650 form a government. It would take 5 years just to work out who got to sit where and whose turn it was to get the biscuits.
 
ST4 said:
And then they can vote down or vote for whatever motions are passed.

Fairs fair and all that.
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Sooooo... like what happens already?

(I assume you meant motions presented? Motions passed means it's already been voted in favour?)
 
Llamaman said:
Sooooo... like what happens already?

(I assume you meant motions presented? Motions passed means it's already been voted in favour?)
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Yes, but except without the "whips". Government as we know is mostly done from the cabinet and chancellor, of which is made up of the greatest number of seats held.

I put it that this cabinet needs to be made up of the party, or parties that get the biggest number of votes, not necessarily the most seats.
 
Well, if you want electoral reform you need to be voting Liberal Democrat... just putting it out there... ;)
 
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ST4 said:
I am itching to get to the polling station and get my vote cast. Given where I live, its probably a waste of time but if we all took that attitude...
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StewartR said:
Well said. My vote is probably a waste of time too, but if we all took that attitude...
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Your votes are never a waste of time, even if your candidate cannot win. A higher percentage of the vote gives a party more legitimacy, even if they have few seats. I admire the people who vote for their party of choice regardless. I have always voted for my party of choice.
 
Llamaman said:
Well, if you want electoral reform you need to be voting Liberal Democrat... just putting it out there... ;)
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Possibly. The other issues are that when you vote, you are voting for a representative for your area in the house of commons. My last representative for a long time has been liberal, and he has represented the area extremely well. As a local candidate he is excellent. I was tempted to vote for him. However, I am more keen in stopping the SNP candidate getting the seat as I am opposed to them on every level possible. The Tory chap is polled to have the biggest count of the unionist vote, and is thus my best chance at stopping the SNP.

Fiscally I am right wing, and I am libertarian in social outlook. I do not like strong state influence. I'd have gone with UKIP as a party their policies are most at kilter with mine, but a) the local UKIP chap hasn't been seen championing my area, the liberal chap has as has the Tory one b) voting UKIP won't stop the SNP, its a waste here due to FPTP c) UKIP are a one horse party and the Tories will give the in/out EU referendum to test the will of the people on that subject.
 
ST4 said:
Possibly. The other issues are that when you vote, you are voting for a representative for your area in the house of commons. My last representative for a long time has been liberal, and he has represented the area extremely well. As a local candidate he is excellent. I was tempted to vote for him. However, I am more keen in stopping the SNP candidate getting the seat as I am opposed to them on every level possible. The Tory chap is polled to have the biggest count of the unionist vote, and is thus my best chance at stopping the SNP.
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Wouldn't your best bet have been to vote Liberal then? I can't see how voting Tory in a Lib/SNP marginal achieves anything. If anything, the Conservatives need the Liberals to be winning those kinds of seats, as the Liberals are their most likely coalition partner.

Edit: sorry, think I misunderstood your post. are you saying Lib support has flatlined and Conservatives are now infront of the LibDems? In Scotland? God help us.
 
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Llamaman said:
Wouldn't your best bet have been to vote Liberal then? I can't see how voting Tory in a Lib/SNP marginal achieves anything. If anything, the Conservatives need the Liberals to be winning those kinds of seats, as the Liberals are their most likely coalition partner.

Edit: sorry, think I misunderstood your post. are you saying Lib support has flatlined and Conservatives are now infront of the LibDems? In Scotland? God help us.
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Yep, poll put SNP at 45%, Con at 20% and liberal and labour well below that figure in my constituency. If every liberal voter and labour voter votes Tory we can block the SNP out in this seat and in most scottish seats (remember in September 55% of people didn't vote for the independence campaign led by the SNP). FPTP rules mean that SNP will get in practically every scottish seats as 45% did buy into their campaign and still do, and the 55% unionist vote is spread accross three parties. Is it really representative of Scotland that every MP from Scotland is from the SNP, no it is not.

Had it been the Liberal chap or labour women at 20% and Con well below that, I would have tactically voted to try get the unionist member in.

The SNP candidate is such an odious person in my view and the views of the party are so at odds with my own, I would do anything within my democratic rights to stop them, even if that means voting for someone other than my number one choice.
 
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ST4 said:
And then they can vote down or vote for whatever motions are passed.
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Or we could do away with MPs altogether. We can propose changes to policies and laws on line and have a referendum on everything!


Steve.
 
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MatBin said:
Really? Like the rest of them, cant be trusted liars, he'll be gone by next week.
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I really don't get this... why is there so much hatred about Clegg? Actually, for that matter, politicians. Ok, they lie from time to time and often do not answer questions, but look at the stick Cameron got when he said he would not go for a third term - damned if you do and damned if you don't. Yes, some do lie but many are pretty decent people.

With Clegg, what do people think he should have done? The country did not have a majority, and we all know that the Lib Dems have no chance of winning an election. So, he either forms the coalition, and get some of his policies through, or stays in opposition and gets none. Surely for a lib dem some is better than nothing. Tuition fees... it was not one of the front page policies, and in any case, what are they supposed to do if things change. When that policy was done, did they think they would be part running the country? They did not know the extent of the mess and if they can't afford it they can't afford it! What if Cam/Milli promises to cut tax or increase spending by x%, and then gets a huge bill in from the EU or we get hit by a global recession... things change and policies change.

Maybe Clegg was a bit soft in negotiating, but he helped shape 5 years of government and IMO did a pretty good job.
 
Steve Smith said:
Or we could do away with MPs altogether. We can propose changes to policies and laws on line and have a referendum on everything!


Steve.
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Surely the fairest way is to have a Tory government for the South & East Anglia, Labour for North & Mids, SNP for Scotland...
 
ST4 said:
What do you think the turn out for this general election will be?
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I actually think it's going to be quite high this time, particularly with younger voters. In the past, young people haven't been too interested as they feel that it is pointless and doesn't affect them, but my son reported that nearly everyone at college was talking about it this morning.

Other friends have said that the polling stations seem busier too.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Or we could do away with MPs altogether. We can propose changes to policies and laws on line and have a referendum on everything!


Steve.
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Terrible idea. We'd have referenda on Jeremy Clarkson and all kinds of crap. Plus, I want to pay MPs to deal with the minutiae of policy, not do it myself.
 
cambsno said:
Yes, some do lie but many are pretty decent people.
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everybody_lies.jpg
 
cambsno said:
Surely the fairest way is to have a Tory government for the South & East Anglia, Labour for North & Mids, SNP for Scotland...
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Only if the Isle of Wight is not part of the South. In fact, we don't even consider ourselves to be part of England!


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Why should a party who got fewer than 50% of the votes get to be in government? They would not be representative of the population.




Steve.
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Because they would be the one party that got the most seats. A voter may want only the one party in control and then find their party has to share the leadership with a party they would never vote for. That is misrepresentation of the population and what I would say is fraudulent use of someone's vote.
 
Steve Smith said:
In fact, we don't even consider ourselves to be part of England!
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Well don't come crying to us when some Banana republic president decides to invade :p
 
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