Who thinks DSLR / Mirrorles and equipment is complicated

[nog]

For me it can be as easy or complicated as you want. Not tech savvy or familiar with photography then stick it in Auto or P mode, but if you want to delve deeper you can.

Exactly this
Also found some systems are simpler than others. I found Sony memory recall easy to set up whilst Nikon memory banks are a bit more complicated and you have to manage them more carefully. Changes made in Nikon whilst in a memory bank are sticky unless you change them back or reload menu settings from a card, custom buttons can be different in each memory bank so it’s a bit more complicated but gives more options.

 

[the black fox]

Been through the mill over the years from the first generation digital sony models ,then on to canon .then Nikon ,back to canon .then back to Nikon each generation getting more complex and along the way learning how to micro adjust long lenses for best results . Then a cautious step into mirrorless with Panasonic and following heart failure a full time move to Olympus and there totally different approach to menu settings and terminology .. th3 latest Olympus offerings the om1 and om1 mkii are far easier .and as I steam full speed ahead towards my 80th I don’t find anything any harder keeps your brain ticking over init

 

[Nod]

This is interesting
What do you play your music on?

What do you use to browse the web? Soc media?

I’ll assume you don’t play games?

And I’ll assume you don’t have smart home appliances

In order...

In the car, Radio6Music or an MP3 player playing ripped CDs. At home, the MP3 player through a reasonable HiFi. No point in anything better - my hearing isn't up to telling the difference these days! On holiday, the MP3 player through wired in-ear phones.

A computer - either a laptop or a desktop. VERY rarely, I'll look at something on my phone, IF I have my reading glasses on me. Don't do social media!

Other than a couple of time wasters (Solitaire and MahJong), I'm not much of a gamer, although I do have a PS2 somewhere.

You're quite right, we don't

 

[Petrochemist]

I am unlikely to miss a shot - landscapes don't tend to move very quickly

In wales last month I missed a landscape shot, because I had to stop the car & go back. Those 3 minutes were enough that the light had completely changed & without that band of light on the point of interest the view was now rubbish, Maybe not moving very quickly, but the opportunity for the shot can be over in a flash.

 

[snerkler]

Someone new to photography is given or buys a state of the art digital camera of whatever make, will be struggling to learn all the new terms.

Or they can use the auto and P modes and learn at their own pace.

That is the reason I returned to film because I want to enjoy photography and not become geeky-fied with all the different modes and features they now have, but will be rarely used.

I'm not sure learning how to use something is "geekyfied", nor am I sure that having all these features stops you from enjoying photography I've still got an OM1 but I enjoy my photography much more using the Sony A1

 

[boliston]

I probably only use 10% of the 'features' of my 1Ds - I have very little interest in any of the 'auto' features, but they are there if ever I have reason to use them in the future - I just use it like and old manual film camera but without the cost of film processing

 

[Rodinal]

In wales last month I missed a landscape shot, because I had to stop the car & go back. Those 3 minutes were enough that the light had completely changed & without that band of light on the point of interest the view was now rubbish, Maybe not moving very quickly, but the opportunity for the shot can be over in a flash.

BUT! by the time you have stopped the car (if it is safe to do so), got out, picked the camera up, the light would probably have changed anyway.

 

[ancient_mariner]

BUT! by the time you have stopped the car (if it is safe to do so), got out, picked the camera up, the light would probably have changed anyway.

And that's the point, really. The idea that the landscape is static allowing time to set up a picture isn't necessarily true, and having kit that allows you to take the shot in moments can make the difference between coming home with something for the wall and coming home with nothing at all.

We understand that some prefer a simple approach in terms of what their kit can do, and that's fine, we all work our own way. But using and understanding technology that helps take better pictures isn't 'geeky', but rather making best use of what's available to achieve the shot you want.

 

[Sheq]

They seem fine to me. Unlike the dark art of film developing and scanning. That I can’t get my head around.

 

[F1.2]

They seem fine to me. Unlike the dark art of film developing and scanning. That I can’t get my head around.

You are not trying , some research , Job done.

 

[snerkler]

They seem fine to me. Unlike the dark art of film developing and scanning. That I can’t get my head around.

For me it's not so much the understanding, it's that you only get one shot at it so to speak. For example if you get your burning wrong on a film photo you have to start over, whereas with digital you can just go back a step and redo it.

 

[ancient_mariner]

For me it's not so much the understanding, it's that you only get one shot at it so to speak. For example if you get your burning wrong on a film photo you have to start over, whereas with digital you can just go back a step and redo it.

Printing is very much about making pictures, in some ways more than when operating the camera.

 

[snerkler]

Printing is very much about making pictures, in some ways more than when operating the camera.

I like processing as much as actually taking the photo, but it's very very rare that I'll print

 

[ancient_mariner]

I like processing as much as actually taking the photo, but it's very very rare that I'll print

I don't have a darkroom any more, and gave away my enlarger 20 years ago.

 

[redhed17]

You are not trying , some research , Job done.

Same could be said to those who think digital cameras are complicated. #Love Digital

 

[Sheq]

Same could be said to those who think digital cameras are complicated. #Love Digital

Thanks for this! I have tried researching but it seems like a lot of outlay for equipment and requires a good deal of space.

 

[ancient_mariner]

Thanks for this! I have tried researching but it seems like a lot of outlay for equipment and requires a good deal of space.

Are you sure this is what you meant?

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I don't have a darkroom any more, and gave away my enlarger 20 years ago.

Me too.

Mine was an Omega Prolab 45, definitely the best enlarger I ever owned. I paid £25 for it at a local auction and used it for freelancing, with a Nova triple tank, in my spare time. I could turn out a dozen or so prints, of individual negatives, in less than half an hour on RC paper and they'd be dry enough to post another half hour later.

Not quite digital speed but good enough for adding a little extra loot to the Xmas fund!

 

[SteveatVTK]

Ah the Nova deep tank. I wished I had discovered them a lot earlier than I did. The blimin orbital (early days) caused more stains on my bathroom floor than my missus with her talc powder.

 

[ancient_mariner]

My first (borrowed) tank was an orbital, used for Cibachromes.

 

[Sheq]

Are you sure this is what you meant?

I…think so?

 

[ancient_mariner]

I…think so?

It still doesn't make sense to me unless you were referring to a film darkroom, rather than the digital that the post you quoted was talking about.

 

[hughlle]

Depends on how you view complication. My Fuji, well it has levers and buttons and dials all over. It can get complicated and confusing, but they serve a purpose. It turns out it is not really for me. It’s why I went down the Leica rabbit hole recently. I like the idea of a camera I can set up in the menu, and then just hand off to the good lady if I fancy. The Fuji is like her makeup box, the Leica, like her hair clip. For me, less is more, I’ll take a hair clip over makeup.

 

[snerkler]

Depends on how you view complication. My Fuji, well it has levers and buttons and dials all over. It can get complicated and confusing, but they serve a purpose. It turns out it is not really for me. It’s why I went down the Leica rabbit hole recently. I like the idea of a camera I can set up in the menu, and then just hand off to the good lady if I fancy. The Fuji is like her makeup box, the Leica, like her hair clip. For me, less is more, I’ll take a hair clip over makeup.

You can set up pretty much any digital camera to be simple and easy to use by anyone, even Fuji can be full auto if you want it to be.

 

[Rodinal]

In wales last month I missed a landscape shot, because I had to stop the car & go back. Those 3 minutes were enough that the light had completely changed & without that band of light on the point of interest the view was now rubbish, Maybe not moving very quickly, but the opportunity for the shot can be over in a flash.

That doesn't make sense. You would have still have to stop the car and then walk back. It was the walking back that caused the delay not what your camera was set up to do. Yes you could have shot the picture through the window but stopping the car was the best chance. I have missed opportunities because I could not conveniently stop without obstructing the road but your reasoning is I feel fanciful.

 

[hughlle]

You can set up pretty much any digital camera to be simple and easy to use by anyone, even Fuji can be full auto if you want it to be.

I’m not after full auto. What I mean is that with my fuji, just changing auto ISO, so I press it, flick it, I just don’t remember quite what is is requred to accept the change vs head back into settings. Nope, that one changes the viewfinder modes. That one ND. Too many buttons too much going on. Serves a great purpose, but not one that necessarily suits me all of the time. I’m a hobbyist with a bunch of cameras, so I never necessarily know them in and out. So I can appreciate less is more at times. My partner certainly can! Heaven help I give the fx30 to film some video

 

[snerkler]

I’m not after full auto. What I mean is that with my fuji, just changing auto ISO, so I press it, flick it, I just don’t remember quite what is is requred to accept the change vs head back into settings. Nope, that one changes the viewfinder modes. That one ND. Too many buttons too much going on. Serves a great purpose, but not one that necessarily suits me all of the time. I’m a hobbyist with a bunch of cameras, so I never necessarily know them in and out. So I can appreciate less is more at times. My partner certainly can! Heaven help I give the fx30 to film some video

I still don’t get it, just because the functions are there you don’t have to use them

If you don’t want to mess with a lot of features just use the ISO dial, shutter dial, aperture ring and focus as you wish and leave everything else be, that way it functions just like an old SLR for example.

Glad you’ve found something you’re happy with, but just because you can make something complicated it doesn’t mean you have to

 

[ancient_mariner]

That doesn't make sense. You would have still have to stop the car and then walk back. It was the walking back that caused the delay not what your camera was set up to do. Yes you could have shot the picture through the window but stopping the car was the best chance. I have missed opportunities because I could not conveniently stop without obstructing the road but your reasoning is I feel fanciful.

I think he was answering your comment about landscapes not moving quickly, so you could take your time with the camera etc. It had nothing to do with the car or kit and everything to do with the scene changing rapidly. I've had a similar experience, where the light can fade in the time it takes to raise the camera to my eye.

 

[hughlle]

I still don’t get it, just because the functions are there you don’t have to use them

If you don’t want to mess with a lot of features just use the ISO dial, shutter dial, aperture ring and focus as you wish and leave everything else be, that way it functions just like an old SLR for example.

Glad you’ve found something you’re happy with, but just because you can make something complicated it doesn’t mean you have to

Quite simple. I want to try the features. I paid for them after all. But unless I invest a lot of time into the camera, iim not a photographer, I blunt a used x100v 2 years ago and am yet to his 10k shutter count. t’s a pain remembering just what does what. I’m just trying to enjoy myself. On that note, I guess that is me out. My views will most likely be as invalid as my photos. I never took a photo for the sake of sharing it, so am not really sure why I joined a forum

 

[ancient_mariner]

Quite simple. I want to try the features. I paid for them after all. But unless I invest a lot of time into the camera, iim not a photographer, I blunt a used x100v 2 years ago and am yet to his 10k shutter count. t’s a pain remembering just what does what. I’m just trying to enjoy myself. On that note, I guess that is me out. My views will most likely be as invalid as my photos. I never took a photo for the sake of sharing it, so am not really sure why I joined a forum

Don't take umbrage. Toby is a very experienced and very good photographer, trying to understand so that he might be able to help you feel more comfy with the camera, and possibly take photos that you'll feel more pleased with.

 

[Petrochemist]

I think he was answering your comment about landscapes not moving quickly, so you could take your time with the camera etc. It had nothing to do with the car or kit and everything to do with the scene changing rapidly. I've had a similar experience, where the light can fade in the time it takes to raise the camera to my eye.

Exactly, it was a recent event where the landscape opportunity was quite fleeting. It doesn't happen as often in landscapes as it does in sports, but sometimes there is still the need to be quick

 

[Don Fischer]

Been doing DSLR's since about 2002And have never been able to figure one out. Of course never figured out my F5 either. I'm comfortable with digital but it's like working a computer and I'm pretty bad at that.

 

[Adam-G]

I haven't found anything totally bamboozling. Some things take a little longer to grasp sure, but on the whole I haven't found any aspect to be truly intimidating or difficult to pick up as long as I'm patient enough and put the time in.

I work a technical job so maybe that's an advantage but I also think it's down to my approach.

With anything I lock down the basics first. Then, if I want to achieve something but I don't have the knowledge to do so, I take that little segment of learning and add it to what I know already. Almost like little building blocks on a foundation.

If I tried to build the entire house in a day, I'd probably give up. But the brick by brick approach has served me well.

Before working in a technical job I was an educator so I guess I've taught myself to be a little patient and realise I'm not going to know everything on day one. I used to be someone who if I wasn't immediately good at something I'd rage and give it up but forcing myself to be more forgiving of myself and be more targeted in my learning has helped a lot.

I'm not going to speak for everyone of course but I think photography is as simple or as complex as you want to make it but if you're patient with the complexity, it soon moves into the realm of second nature and simplicity.

 

[snerkler]

Quite simple. I want to try the features. I paid for them after all. But unless I invest a lot of time into the camera, iim not a photographer, I blunt a used x100v 2 years ago and am yet to his 10k shutter count. t’s a pain remembering just what does what. I’m just trying to enjoy myself. On that note, I guess that is me out. My views will most likely be as invalid as my photos. I never took a photo for the sake of sharing it, so am not really sure why I joined a forum

I apologise if I've upset you, not my intention at all. As Toni said, I am just trying to understand and also add a balanced view as others may read this and be put off thinking that a camera may be too complex when in reality it can be as easy or complex as you want it to be. Pretty much any camera can be as easy to use as the next one. You've chosen to try and use all of the features which is completely your perogative, but someone who doesn't like the complexities could buy the same camera and use it in as basic form as they want

 

[Rodinal]

Of course the more features a camera has, irrespective if the user will ever use them adds kudos to the item, and the gasps of 'WOW' - I need one of these it will improve my photography no end. Then followed by - HOW MUCH? then comes, the thinking 'I wonder if my credit card has enough left, sod it, I will have one'. Two more years pass, (possibly less)and the same maker brings out something even more 'astounding', and the same sequence of events happens again, a-g-a-i-n and a - g - a - i - n......, ad infinitum. The end result being the manufacturers get wealthier, the shareholders are ecstatic, because they do as well, especially as18 months later, the hardly used device is part exchanged for the latest gadget, at an even more extortionate price. And the ball rolls on and on.

 

[F1.2]

As above the makers when they bring out yet another new or updated model, At the same time de value the previous model .

 

[snerkler]

Of course the more features a camera has, irrespective if the user will ever use them adds kudos to the item, and the gasps of 'WOW' - I need one of these it will improve my photography no end. Then followed by - HOW MUCH? then comes, the thinking 'I wonder if my credit card has enough left, sod it, I will have one'. Two more years pass, (possibly less)and the same maker brings out something even more 'astounding', and the same sequence of events happens again, a-g-a-i-n and a - g - a - i - n......, ad infinitum. The end result being the manufacturers get wealthier, the shareholders are ecstatic, because they do as well, especially as18 months later, the hardly used device is part exchanged for the latest gadget, at an even more extortionate price. And the ball rolls on and on.

That's true of most things, especially tech and of course what tech companies rely on to keep going. Apple are one of the best at this, the iPhone's barely changed over the years but 'everyone' has to have the latest one

 

[Faldrax]

That's true of most things, especially tech and of course what tech companies rely on to keep going. Apple are one of the best at this, the iPhone's barely changed over the years but 'everyone' has to have the latest one

With anything that uses frequently updated / new software old devices will after a time become 'obsolete' as availability of current / updated software drops off with newer OS versions.
(and in the case of mobile devices, newer software will often have much higher memory and storage requirements, furthering the obsolescence).
Cameras are a bit different, as they typically will continue to work just fine (mechanical failures excepted), but we have seen a significant advance in things like AF and FPS with the advent of mirrorless - so for some people, there is a lot to gain from getting one of the latest models, while for others, the advantages are much smaller.

 

[snerkler]

With anything that uses frequently updated / new software old devices will after a time become 'obsolete' as availability of current / updated software drops off with newer OS versions.
(and in the case of mobile devices, newer software will often have much higher memory and storage requirements, furthering the obsolescence).
Cameras are a bit different, as they typically will continue to work just fine (mechanical failures excepted), but we have seen a significant advance in things like AF and FPS with the advent of mirrorless - so for some people, there is a lot to gain from getting one of the latest models, while for others, the advantages are much smaller.

I get what you're saying, but it takes many many years for things like phones to become obsolete and isn't really the reason people 'have to have' the latest model

With cameras I often question how much of the modern tech we actually need compared to how much we're made to think we need it so to speak. For example, you will still see numerous F1 togs are still using Canon 1Dx's, Nikon D6's etc, likewise football togs, Olympic togs, wedding togs etc etc. Fashion photographers often use medium format that have the most basic of AF. They see the camera as a tool, and if it does the job why bother with all the bells and whilstes just for the sake of it.

It's numpties like me that hang around too much on forums and watch too many youtube videos that 'have to have' the latest and greatest In fairness though I just enjoy trying new tech, I don't think for one second it will improve my photography, at least not the final image. Things like eye-af is great, and makes life easier, but I coped pretty well with the D750 in all honesty, and in terms of my final image struggle to see much difference between the shots I took with that and the shots I'm now taking with the A1.

Does that mean I want to go back to the D750? Errr, nope

 

[woof woof]

Aperture priority + auto IS0 or manual + aperture of my choice + 1/125 or 1/160 + auto ISO.
Learn how to move the focus point.
Learn how to select evaluative or spot focus.
Learn how to set the 10 second timer for the twice a year I'll use it.
Learn how to format the card.
Learn how to change the date twice a year.

That's 99,999% of my "photography."