The Football Thread - Season 2011/2012

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With managers under so much pressure to stay in the league, get a CL spot or do well in CL, the FA cup will always suffer. I believe it's only teams like Villa, Stoke, Everton etc.. Who will actually focus on the FA cup as they fall into that group. The big 4 are strong enough reserve wise to not worry too much either.
 
Fulham away ........ Great draw for us. Would be superb to see us through to the 4th round. Fingerss crossed
 
City V United in the FA Cup.

Not happy about it but at least it's another big game to look forward too. I think the FA cup tie falls slap bang inbetween City's League game against Liverpool and their Carling cup semi final game against Liverpool.

Good result for Fulham tonight.
 
dinners said:
City V United in the FA Cup.

Not happy about it but at least it's another big game to look forward too. I think the FA cup tie falls slap bang inbetween City's League game against Liverpool and their Carling cup semi final game against Liverpool.

Good result for Fulham tonight.
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A busy time for us..
:)
 
Overall I thought the ref in the Gilgamesh (I wrote fulham but spelt it wrong and my iPhone spat that out) was ok apart from 3 decisions that lost us the game.

Suarez goal was not offside. Spearings red was a yellow at most and senders fouled Adam in the box, not on the edge.

Suarez looked tasty as always.
 
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Joe, have you seen the slo mo of Spearing's boot crashing into Dembele's leg above his ankle? Which was late, it does not matter if he won the ball, the law states it was a foul.

Adams shout for a penalty was 50/50 as there was not conclusive evidence.

Suarez dives in the box, again.

And ultimately what lost you the game was poor handling from the usually reliable Reina.
 
tiler65 said:
Joe, have you seen the slo mo of Spearing's boot crashing into Dembele's leg above his ankle? Which was late, it does not matter if he won the ball, the law states it was a foul.

Adams shout for a penalty was 50/50 as there was not conclusive evidence.

Suarez dives in the box, again.

And ultimately what lost you the game was poor handling from the usually reliable Reina.
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never watch the slo mo - it always makes it look worse that it is. His tackle wasn't late, if it was late he wouldn't have got the ball, which he got full contact with, his leg followed through but he got the man after the ball, it wasn't a wreck less tackle. Hopefully they'll appeal and the ban will get rescinded.

agree penalty was 50/50

suarez did dive in the box, he also went down at the end too easy, that's unrelated to my third point though, his goal wasn't offside.

yep, reina, had one mare and it cost us :shrug:
 
Got my first trip to Anfield for a QPR match this Saturday, looking forward to it. The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that it won't be 0-0 as we'll attack and leave ourselves open at the back, and we have our 3rd choice keeper in goal....that said Helguson is on fire, one of the most underrated players - long may that continue!
 
joescrivens said:
Overall I thought the ref in the Gilgamesh (I wrote fulham but spelt it wrong and my iPhone spat that out) was ok apart from 3 decisions that lost us the game.

Suarez goal was not offside. Spearings red was a yellow at most and senders fouled Adam in the box, not on the edge.

Suarez looked tasty as always.
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Spearing's challenge was fully deserving of a red card Joe. Sometimes it could be a yellow, other times ignored all together and I think that's why some people think it was harsh. It doesn't actually matter whether he got the ball or not - going steaming in with both feet of the ground with studs showing is deemed to be a red. The way his feet got even higher at the end of his slide probably made it even worse in the refs eyes.

Suarez goal was another decision that could have gone either way as it was borderline.

The challenge on Adam is another one that could have gone either way as the foul began outside the box and ended in the box.

I think all in all they weren't 3 wrong decisions from the ref - just 3 decisions that went Fulham's way rather than Liverpool's.

Suarez could also have had a penalty but again that was one that could have gone either way. I suspect the way he'd been throwing himself about and whining throughout the game ended up going against him.
 
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joescrivens said:
never watch the slo mo - it always makes it look worse that it is. His tackle wasn't late, if it was late he wouldn't have got the ball, which he got full contact with, his leg followed through but he got the man after the ball, it wasn't a wreck less tackle. Hopefully they'll appeal and the ban will get rescinded.

agree penalty was 50/50

suarez did dive in the box, he also went down at the end too easy, that's unrelated to my third point though, his goal wasn't offside.

yep, reina, had one mare and it cost us :shrug:
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Never watch the slo mo?.... How absurd.

How do you think red cards are rescinded?....By playing at full speed, Joe I think you need to have a good think about this fact. Take the Rodwell incident on Suarez, if it wasn't for slo mo, Rodwell would not have been let off. The same thing applies if Spearing appeals, he may get off but they will need to look at the slo mo to see if it was just momentum that caused him to catch the player.
 
tiler65 said:
Never watch the slo mo?.... How absurd.

How do you think red cards are rescinded?....By playing at full speed, Joe I think you need to have a good think about this fact. Take the Rodwell incident on Suarez, if it wasn't for slo mo, Rodwell would not have been let off. The same thing applies if Spearing appeals, he may get off but they will need to look at the slo mo to see if it was just momentum that caused him to catch the player.
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I disagree. I don't think you need to watch it in slo mo to rescind the red card. Same with the rodwell incident, it was obvious from the full speed that it wasn't a foul.

the slo mo makes things look worse, this isn't a new theory by the way, you'll hear it a lot by the football pundits, and it's one I agree with
 
joescrivens said:
I disagree. I don't think you need to watch it in slo mo to rescind the red card. Same with the rodwell incident, it was obvious from the full speed that it wasn't a foul.

the slo mo makes things look worse, this isn't a new theory by the way, you'll hear it a lot by the football pundits, and it's one I agree with
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Maybe by the pundits but not by the referees or those that hold the rule/law book.

Just because he won the ball first does not mean it still can't be a foul. I wish the pundits would get that into their heads then we wouldn't need this debate.
 
Pundits are idiots. The tackle was reckless and the ball only got in the way of the 2 footed, studs up challenge. Not sure you could say that the result was entirely fair last night but I do like the way that we (Fulham) keep plugging away and don't actually look too bad all things considered. A few more goals in upcoming matches and things may look a little more rosy.

Ps Liverpool fans, don't be too upset many better teams have come a cropper at Craven Cottage over the past few years! ;)
 
tiler65 said:
Just because he won the ball first does not mean it still can't be a foul. I wish the pundits would get that into their heads then we wouldn't need this debate.
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i'm not saying it wasn't a foul, but fouls don't automatically result in yellow or red cards, there are all kinds of fouls.

I do think he fouled him, i just personally don't think it was worthy of a red card, he didn't go in to break the guys leg, he went first and foremost in to get the ball, which he got. Also if you watch the ref, after the foul the ref turns to carry on play and then turns back - strange actions for someone who thought something was a straight red if you ask me.

You disagree. We can leave it there (y)
 
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joescrivens said:
i'm not saying it wasn't a foul, but fouls don't automatically result in yellow or red cards, there are all kinds of fouls.

I do think he fouled him, i just personally don't think it was worthy of a red card, he didn't go in to break the guys leg, he went first and foremost in to get the ball, which he got. Also if you watch the ref, after the foul the ref turns to carry on play and then turns back - strange actions for someone who thought something was a straight red if you ask me.

You disagree. We can leave it there (y)
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It's a discussion Joe, you can't forcefully make your point and then say let's leave it there. :nono:
 
fabs said:
It's a discussion Joe, you can't forcefully make your point and then say let's leave it there. :nono:
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Ummm, excuse me?

I wasn't forcibly doing anything, tiler made his point. I made mine. I stated that he had a different opinion and then said we could move on so that we didn't go into an argument which apparently I'm known for doing, so was showing I could see someone else had a different opinion and mine isn't right, just that it's my own.

All you are doing now is making a mountain out of a molehill when I am trying to follow Grendel and mattys advice and it's bang out of order Marc. :thumbsdown:
 
joescrivens said:
All you are doing now is making a mountain out of a molehill when I am trying to follow Grendel and mattys advice and it's bang out of order Marc. :thumbsdown:
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Oh No he isn't!

Just because it is this time of year.....:D
 
joescrivens said:
Ummm, excuse me?

I wasn't forcibly doing anything, tiler made his point. I made mine. I stated that he had a different opinion and then said we could move on so that we didn't go into an argument which apparently I'm known for doing, so was showing I could see someone else had a different opinion and mine isn't right, just that it's my own.

All you are doing now is making a mountain out of a molehill when I am trying to follow Grendel and mattys advice and it's bang out of order Marc. :thumbsdown:
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Joe, you're right. Forcefully wasn't the word I should have used and wasn't what I meant so I apologise for that but my point stands. Making your points and then saying "we can leave it there" smacks of an attempt to have the last word. You also seem to have ignored the point that Phil made about going in two footed and studs up which usually means a straight red.
 
Like I said further up the thread - If you leap in with both feet off the ground studs first - you run the risk of a red because by the rules - that action constitutes a red regardless of whether you win the ball, miss the ball or even miss the man. It doesn't result in a red every time but if it does there should be no complaints.

Anyway

I felt sorry for Olympiacos tonight. Did all that was required of them against Arsenal and when they went 3:1 up - Borussia Dortmund were still a goal to the good against Marseille however two goals in the last few mins from Marseille sent Olympiacos out.
 
Olympiakos sound as if they played an albeit 2nd Arsenal team off the park tonight - good for them! A real shame it wasn't enough to hold Marseille to 3rd though.

As for the Spearing challenge; there can be little doubt it was a nasty foul regardless of whether he played the ball and it's very understandable how he was awarded a red. It wasn't stonewall and we could all think of similar tackles that have gone unpunished but the letter of the law said he should walk and walk he did.

I actually think Liverpool are going to struggle again this season. Defensively they're strong having conceded just 13 goals, which is equal fewest with City and United, but by contrast there doesn't seem to be goals in the team at all. They've scored just 17 goals, 12 less than the lowest goal tally of the top 5 teams and just 5 more than Wigan who are the lowest goal scorers and are sitting at the very bottom of the table. There can be little doubt that Carroll, at £35m, has proved so ineffective he could well be the most overpriced transfer ever.

I like Liverpool and I really hope they find some goals from somewhere but I just don't know whether they have the strike force at present that is necessary to break into the top 5 this season.
 
fabs said:
Joe, you're right. Forcefully wasn't the word I should have used and wasn't what I meant so I apologise for that but my point stands. Making your points and then saying "we can leave it there" smacks of an attempt to have the last word. You also seem to have ignored the point that Phil made about going in two footed and studs up which usually means a straight red.
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Well, I wasn't trying to have the last word. During the last few weeks I can probably go back and quote you personally 4 times where you have said "Lets leave it there" or "Let's move on" was this you trying to get the last word or was it you recognising that points had been made on both sides and it was fruitless discussing it anymore?

That was what I was doing, rather than going back through every point again and again I was trying to stop going round in circles. Dinners and tilers made their point and I made mine, we disagreed.

I wanted to leave it there, which is what I've been advised to recognise but now I am being pulled up for not addressing every point someone else made :shrug:
 
TriggerHappy said:
There can be little doubt that Carroll, at £35m, has proved so ineffective he could well be the most overpriced transfer ever.
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almost .....

Carroll slots in at number 2 right now after the £50m we got for torres :D
 
I really think its time to have a yellow, amber and red card system, or yellow, second yellow and red. How can it be right that celebrating a goal or kicking a ball away can get the same punishment as a bad foul?

There are fouls that can be borderline reds, maybe Cahills at the weekend, so why not flash him an amber... one more yellow and he is off. Especially with all the paly acting that goes on, players can get yellows for diving and tackles that should not be yellow, one further error could be a red?
 
not sure what you mean, the 2 yellow system you describe which leads to a red is what we already have
 
That has me confused too Simon.
I think silly things like taking your shirt off shoud have an 'out of game' card system. It could count towards the amount that leads to a suspension, but not lead to a red card within the game... is that too confusing?
 
I mean something like:

1 yellow - minor indiscretion like celebrating a goal, persistant fouling, handbags...

Amber - bad foul, borderline prof foul, dissent

Red - as we have now.

2 yellows = amber and amber & yellow or 3 yellows = red.

So a player may get booked for a foul (yellow), then get another yellow for a foul, then get another yellow for kicking ball away so RED. Or, they do a bad foul and get straight amber, if they then kick ball away, a yellow = red.

So instead of 2 yellows - red, you have 3 yellows = red and could have 2 yellows shown at the same time or an amber which is same as 2 yellows?
 
cambsno said:
I mean something like:

1 yellow - minor indiscretion like celebrating a goal, persistant fouling, handbags...

Amber - bad foul, borderline prof foul, dissent

Red - as we have now.

2 yellows = amber and amber & yellow or 3 yellows = red.

So a player may get booked for a foul (yellow), then get another yellow for a foul, then get another yellow for kicking ball away so RED. Or, they do a bad foul and get straight amber, if they then kick ball away, a yellow = red.

So instead of 2 yellows - red, you have 3 yellows = red and could have 2 yellows shown at the same time or an amber which is same as 2 yellows?
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HURTS.jpg
 
Trouble is the rules are aslready in place for taking your shirt off celebrating, arguing witht the ref, surrounding the ref, time wasting, the list goes on but they all still do it, so they all know the rules and they still do it, tough **** for them i say.
Van percey did it the other week, scored shirt off got a yellow, |i was thinking at the time "what a d**k you are you have just got a yellow for something stupid, you catch a player now accidently and you are off the field and could cost you the game"

I think the system we have works well its like every manager keeps saying, "consistancy" is needed. only way to get consistancy is same rull for all and the use of camera's it works in rugby so why not football.

spike
 
yes.. BUT.. players know if they take their shirt off they WILL get a yellow card. So they're blatantly inviting it. Madness on their part.
 
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I've no idea how it could be evaluated but I'd love to see some way of allowing refs to award cards based on 'intent'.

An intentional foul or intentional dangerous tackle is one thing but where's the guilt in simply misjudging a tackle ? - After all you don't get booked for misjudging passes, shots on goal, goal keeping mistakes or being caught offside.
 
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Ok Joe, maybe I have not explained it simply enough:

Currently 2 yellows = 1 red. What about changing this to 3 yellows = 1 red but the ref can give 2 yellows at the same time if the offence merits it?
 
cambsno said:
Ok Joe, maybe I have not explained it simply enough:

Currently 2 yellows = 1 red. What about changing this to 3 yellows = 1 red but the ref can give 2 yellows at the same time if the offence merits it?
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I think to some degree the 3 yellow card thing goes on already when the ref 'speaks' to a player. Quite often a player that's already booked will make a petty challenge that would have been a yellow but the ref 'has a word' to remind the player that another one like that and he's off.

On the other hand if a player that's already booked makes a really bad challenge worthy of a yellow - he'll get the red.
 
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didn't Graham Poll try the 3 yeallow card approach in a world cup game :thinking:
 
cambsno said:
Ok Joe, maybe I have not explained it simply enough:

Currently 2 yellows = 1 red. What about changing this to 3 yellows = 1 red but the ref can give 2 yellows at the same time if the offence merits it?
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I think what you mean is...For really minor stuff like shirts and celebrations....why not have a "half yellow" ;)
 
TriggerHappy said:
Olympiakos sound as if they played an albeit 2nd Arsenal team off the park tonight - good for them! A real shame it wasn't enough to hold Marseille to 3rd though.

As for the Spearing challenge; there can be little doubt it was a nasty foul regardless of whether he played the ball and it's very understandable how he was awarded a red. It wasn't stonewall and we could all think of similar tackles that have gone unpunished but the letter of the law said he should walk and walk he did.

I actually think Liverpool are going to struggle again this season. Defensively they're strong having conceded just 13 goals, which is equal fewest with City and United, but by contrast there doesn't seem to be goals in the team at all. They've scored just 17 goals, 12 less than the lowest goal tally of the top 5 teams and just 5 more than Wigan who are the lowest goal scorers and are sitting at the very bottom of the table. There can be little doubt that Carroll, at £35m, has proved so ineffective he could well be the most overpriced transfer ever.

I like Liverpool and I really hope they find some goals from somewhere but I just don't know whether they have the strike force at present that is necessary to break into the top 5 this season.
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Got to agree we need a midfielder and striker that can score twenty goals each.
 
I dont know, when Gerrard is back you have him, Henderson, Adam, Downing is a good player too, Lucas has done well by all accounts until injury hit. Maybe Bellamy needs to play more?
 
City and United both going out of Europe tonight ?
 
Sadly, I feel City are. Ah well, we had a good run :p
 
Marcel said:
Sadly, I feel City are. Ah well, we had a good run :p
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Should be a good game though - Bayern have already won the group so (I think) if you beat them you go through as long as Napoli don't beat Villarreal. Bayern also have a dire record in England winning 2 out of 18 or something like that.



Anything could happen tonight with regards to Basel v United.

Basel or United could end up topping the group with a win providing Benfica don't beat Otelul Galati in Lisbon although that is unlikely.

Thinking about it a draw for United and they would top the group if Benfica loose but that's even less likely.

I guess avoiding defeat has to be number 1 priority for United though as that will see us qualify regardless of the other result.

As for the game I'm a bit undecided as we're getting results by the skin of our teeth and Frei for Basel could be very dangerous.
 
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